Very first tank (planted, low tech)

[shangman]

That does look a bit like ich, I would treat with esha exit, it worked for me to remove ich and didn’t seem to upset any other fish in the process. I might also treat with esha2000 too in case the ich is caused by stress from other illness.

To be honest when you get a big school of fish there’s always a few that are a bit dodgy and don’t do well. Interesting that the tetras are quite nippy, I wonder if you could do with a bigger school to get the hierarchy amongst them a bit more balanced (once treated for ich). Same with pygmy cories - a large number helps to avoid them being singled out and calms them down as they’re used to big numbers. I know you want the whole a few fish in a big tank thing, but the bioload on these fish is tiny and I’ve found they do much better in bigger groups.

The other thing I’d do is to vacuum out all the existing mulm and then start again with a new layer of fresh dried leaves that will degrade over time. You can build up a good thick layer of leaves over a few weeks with a handful added every few days. I find this kind of leaf litter mulm much less problematic than new tank mulm, and it’s better structural habitat too, providing lots of hiding places for little cories. You can just add dried leaves to the top of the tank and wait for them to saturate and sink.

 

[megwattscreative]

Thanks @shangman ! This is leaf mulm not new tank mulm, but I'll vacuum if this will help. I'm reluctant to add any more fish whilst I'm dialling in what I'm doing, but hopefully I can get the tank all balanced and up numbers. Having read more thoroughly I think tetras can be quite nippy, I'm hoping the key will be denser planting for now and maybe a bigger shoal of Corys and tetra later.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I will monitor today, although unsure if I can do anything.

Possibly not, if you are sure it is White Spot (Ichthyophthirius multifiliis) you can medicate, @PARAGUAY's suggestion would be mine as well.

Life is difficult for smaller fish.

Certainly is, I'm not sure there any fish that are really peaceful.

Do you still have some structural (big) leaf litter? If you do pop it in the tank, it will add tannins, and also allow the fish to hide under it.

There is some evaporation so I do top the tank off too. Wondering if the evaporation is part of the issue? @dw1305 did say this could effect water quality.

Perform regular water changes

Not exactly water quality, but it will cause the conductivity (TDS) to rise. Basically pure H2O evaporates and the resulting smaller volume of water is "saltier".

You can get DI water from Sainsburys etc for top-up, but your rain water should be fine, I'd agree with the others just change some water, rather than just topping up what has evaporated.

Mulm Layer: The layer of mulm in your tank could be problematic. Corys, neons, and other bottom-dwelling fish come into contact with it, potentially picking up harmful bacteria. In Corys, this can lead to fin and barbel issues. Do you notice similar behavior in your fish?

This honestly isn't an issue, it is to do with the <"low hanging fruits"> argument.

Bristol Pleco god, the sadly missed Bob Marklew, <"kept tanks with some mulm"> and he is by far the best fish keeper I've ever met.

Another part of me thinks that not thoroughly cleaning any filtration at the moment might be a good option. i.e. trying to keep any beneficial bacteria where it is. Water changes fine, thorough cleaning of filter media should be avoided.

You are in good company, there is also this, from Dr Stephan Tanner, somebody I've never met, but I have a lot of respect for <"Aquarium Biofiltration - SWISSTROPICALS">.

cheers D(ad)arrel

 

[megwattscreative]

Thanks d(ad)arrel 🙂))

I do have some big magnolia leaves in there, have been topping up frequently so it's pretty tannin-y. Ive bought some Esha exit and Esha 2000, so will keep seeing how things go and treat with that.
I'm using tap water with conditioner, but I can swap to rainwater from my neighbours water butts - just involves slogging it up the road and then 6 flights of stairs! Probably not a very long term solution 😂

 

[chickennublet]

Hi @Aciko, I don't use artificial plants and they aren't beneficial at all as far as I'm aware 🙂

The main benefit is that they don't die!

Just wanted to pop in to say good luck with whatever is affecting your fish...

 

[Bradders]

Hi @megwattscreative - just thought I would ask if there has been any updates or improvements?

 

[megwattscreative]

A POSITIVE UPDATE !

I went a bit overboard with plants and added 31 yesterday, with more arriving today 😅

This will almost certainly double the aquatic growth (not including mosses) and I'm so happy I did it! The fish seem a lot calmer and have many more hiding places.

It's difficult to get pictures with the reflections, but here are some attempts:



Im not 100% sure what all of the plants are, but I definitely added:

K2 AQUATICS
Sagittaria subulata
Echinodorus bleheri
Bolbitis heudelotii
Hygrophila corymbosa

And I think I added:
ASHBY PETS AND AQUATICS
Cryptocoryne walkeri
Bacopa Caroliniana
Limnophilia sessiflora
Ludwigia peruensis
Lysimachia nummulara

I've used K2 aquatics before and know they're very good, but Ashby pets and aquatics is a new one for me - I bought their 25 plant bundle (£12 plus postage) so I'm not completely sure what is what, but this is my best guess.

A lot of these plants do grow quite large, however Im hoping I can keep on top of maintenance and donate cuttings to anyone who fancies.

I've also ordered a 15 plant bundle from a different eBay seller who has kindly added 6-10 extra plants, so there will almost definitely be a surplus 😂 it was a moment of cart happy madness!

I've also added more botanicals, which are currently floating up top. Thinking the tannins are definitely helping.

I've performed 3 water changes in 3 days and have noticed that the tetras no longer have white spots on them (woo!). There are some faint marks where the spots were, but no 'grain of salt'-like lumps. I am going to keep monitoring them as i think one might have slightly red gills. I've ordered some Esha exit and Esha 2000 which I'm now not sure whether to use. The lethargic cory has perked up a lot but is still quite finless, so Im wondering whether to treat with Esha 2000 for fin rot and hold off on the exit treatment for now?

Any advice is welcome and greatly appreciated!

Thanks all for the well wishes, advice and support 🙂

 

[Bradders]

I've performed 3 water changes in 3 days and have noticed that the tetras no longer have white spots on them (woo!). There are some faint marks where the spots were, but no 'grain of salt'-like lumps. I am going to keep monitoring them as i think one might have slightly red gills. I've ordered some Esha exit and Esha 2000 which I'm now not sure whether to use. The lethargic cory has perked up a lot but is still quite finless, so Im wondering whether to treat with Esha 2000 for fin rot and hold off on the exit treatment for now?

What a way to start a weekend! This is great news!!!

Now, if it were me, and seeing that you are observing natural recovery then I would hold off on the medication and observe for a day or two - especially in terms of any ich treatment. If progress stops, then take a view at that point.

In terms of the Cory, if there is not an infection then they should start to grow back. What your episode is telling me is that the tank is healthy enough to address issues and let the fish concentrate on fighting off the nasty stuff. However, it may be a case that there is a bacterial infection and the Cory could benefit from a dosing.

 

[megwattscreative]

Brill, thanks @Bradders 🙂) I'll keep up the water changes and add more plants when they arrive (quickly realising that this is the solution to everything). I feel like a proud mum, I'm really glad they seem to be bouncing back 🙂

 

[Bradders]

I feel like a proud mum, I'm really glad they seem to be bouncing back 🙂

Yep, you should indeed be proud! If your tank was/remained unhealthy then they definitely would not bounce back like that. And it always great to see self-recovery.

 

[megwattscreative]

A positive update!

only 2 tetra have 1 visible white mark each this morning. Everyone seems pretty happy, although I'm wondering how long I should monitor the fin growth of the corys before I treat for fin rot - any advice welcome.

I think the Corys are also displaying breeding behaviour! 2 of the smaller Corys are following the large female closely and are touching her side with their faces, swimming all up and down the tank together. I've had a look at some videos of breeding behaviour and I think they're attempting to T pose with her 🙂

When I've got all the potential ich/fin rot things sorted I will definitely get some more Corys, excited to see if I get any fry. Although if they make it to adulthood with the neon green piranhas it will be a miracle! I did buy a mesh breeder box just in case i needed to separate out the fish, so I might be able to fill that with leaf litter and moss for any eggs/fry that I do find.
Thanks again for all your advice and help 🙂

 

[Bradders]

I don't know the growth rates of fins, but I did a little research, and it's a mixed bag - certainly, months seem to be quoted more than weeks.

If you can, please send another picture of Cory so someone with first-hand experience can reply. However, if their behaviour is back to normal then that is a good sign. Jut need someone to offer some help on whether it looks like fin rot or not!

 

[megwattscreative]

A STEP BACK

Hi all,

I've noticed the white spots are back on the tetra, so I think it's time to dose with Esha exit. I've also noticed a few white spots on one of the axelrodi, so it's definitely time. I've been changing water daily and adding tannins - I've also been feeding them daily to reduce aggression when they're hungry. I'm guessing adding food daily (small bug bites) could have contributed to water quality? It could also be plant melt from the new additions, or just the stress of me fiddling with the tank so much recently. I'm using love fish tap safe water treatment at the moment, and usually slightly overdo the dose as I don't have precise enough measuring spoons (treating 5ml when I'm changing 15L. 5ml is enough for a 25L change). I've read this shouldn't be a problem, but I can switch to a different tap conditioner that's easier to measure if this is a likely issue. Or as @dw1305 rightly said, these neons are probably wild caught and may be harbouring something 🙁

Any idea how to avoid wild caught fish!? Recommendations of good home breeders around Manchester highly welcome.

I've attached some photos of the tetras as best as I can. The particulates in the water are crushed bug bites, nothing to worry about.

You can see white spots on the body in image 1 (very cursed) and on the tail in image2. There's some more thumbnails attached too. I have done my daily water change (15L out of 100L) using my neighbours rainwater and I am going to start dosing with Esha exit and Esha 2000 today to see if that improves things.

 

[Bradders]

Not such great news.

• At this stage, and noting that you see other fish developing the white spots, I think you do indeed need to treat the tank with medication.
• However, the fact that the fish were starting to self-recover well, but the issues are now back again means that we need to consider environmental issues.

Did you reduce the water changes from 3 times to 1 times a day after your observed the disease retract?

 

[megwattscreative]

Not such great news.

• At this stage, and noting that you see other fish developing the white spots, I think you do indeed need to treat the tank with medication.
• However, the fact that the fish were starting to self-recover well, but the issues are now back again means that we need to consider environmental issues.

Did you reduce the water changes from 3 times to 1 times a day after your observed the disease retract?

Hi bradders, I've done 1 water change a day (between 1/5 and 1/4 of the tank volume) for 7 out of the last 8 days. Normally I do 1 water change a week.

I've been reading up on ich and I think the likelihood is that the fish were recovering from 1 wave of parasites, however there are more in the water column that hadn't yet become visible. I'm glad I caught it early, as I haven't seen any fatalities and the ich seems minimal - affecting approx 7 fish with a couple of spots, out of the 40ish in the tank.

I've just added the Esha exit and Esha 2000 and the fish do seem a little stressed - they're shoaling together, whereas they normally chill in the plants. Hoping they'll calm down and I'll only need to do a short treatment! I have another filter I can run however it's a little forceful/noisy, which isn't great for blackwater fish. I'll run it in short bursts to disseminate the treatment .

 

[Bradders]

Hi bradders, I've done 1 water change a day (between 1/5 and 1/4 of the tank volume) for 7 out of the last 8 days. Normally I do 1 water change a week.

OK, sorry, I thought you said at one point you were doing three a day.

however there are more in the water column that hadn't yet become visible.

This is very plausible, which is why I am focused on the environment as well as the as the fish.

I have another filter I can run however it's a little forceful/noisy, which isn't great for blackwater fish. I'll run it in short bursts to disseminate the treatment .

I think with the medication, you should look to increase aeration as much as you can during the dosing period. In terms of filtration, I would certainly increase it as much as possible and as constantly as possible. However, I don't think your spare filter is going to have beneficial bacteria in it unless you have some sponge or media that you can add from an already cycled tank?

 

[megwattscreative]

OK, sorry, I thought you said at one point you were doing three a day.


This is very plausible, which is why I am focused on the environment as well as the as the fish.


I think with the medication, you should look to increase aeration as much as you can during the dosing period. In terms of filtration, I would certainly increase it as much as possible and as constantly as possible. However, I don't think your spare filter is going to have beneficial bacteria in it unless you have some sponge or media that you can add from an already cycled tank?

Hi bradders, I just use the second filter for the drip wall so it's more water circulation than filtration. I have an airstone and my matten filter (30x75x3cm fine sponge) hooked up to an eheim 200 airpump. I can try increasing filtration if this works!?

 

[Bradders]

Keep us in touch with how the medication goes. Everything is crossed over here in Essex.

In terms of the environment, I am struggling a little with matten filters as I have no first-hand experience with them - it's been UFGs and Canisters for me. However, the principle is the same in that you pull/push water through the media to clean the water of the nasty stuff. So, I do have a few initial questions. (sorry).

1. How long has the filter been in operation? i.e. consistently filtering the water to build up the beneficial bacteria.
2. You use the matten filter with an air pump. Do you have an idea of the turnover it creates for the 100L of water? Do you think it cycles the whole aquarium 2-3x an hour?
3. Is the Matten filter flush with the sides of the aquarium and no 'go around' occurs? i.e. water is forced through the filter, not round the sides.

I think my working thoughts are that the filter (despite the plants) is not yet quite mature enough to cope, and blackwater fish are sensitive to bacteria in the water column.

Let me know the answers to the above, and we can go from there.

 

[megwattscreative]

1. How long has the filter been in operation? i.e. consistently filtering the water to build up the beneficial bacteria.
2. You use the matten filter with an air pump. Do you have an idea of the turnover it creates for the 100L of water? Do you think it cycles the whole aquarium 2-3x an hour?
3. Is the Matten filter flush with the sides of the aquarium and no 'go around' occurs? i.e. water is forced through the filter, not round the sides.

Hi bradders,
1.The filter has been running since January 2023 with the same filter media.

3. The filter cycles the tank 2x per hour.

2. I did add a spacer gap on the side as I noticed a few of the teeny fish were getting in to the back compartment and then seemed to get stuck! I will revise this and add more sponge to fill the gap. The only issue arises when the fish inevitably find their way in through a tiny gap they then won't leave through :')

In terms of the fish, the severely finless Cory's tail seems to be recovering! I'll keep an eye on the ich and see what's happening.

 

[megwattscreative]

Amazing pictures. I loved what I saw. Your fish tank is bigger than mine. I asked you about faux plants because I'm using a few in my fish tank just for decoration and a hiding place for my fish. What type of fish do you have? I have 3 Neon Tetra and 2 Betta fishes, and I plan to buy more soon, but we will see that.

Hi aciko, I'd really recommend live plants for your fish! Live plants do a great job at improving water quality and will give your fish a more natural environment that feels safer. You can also think about stocking - in the wild neon tetras live in huge shoals and are definitely happier in bigger groups. On the other side, male bettas are extremely territorial and do not do well together in the same tank. There's a lot of aggression that will definitely result in stress for the weaker fish, fin nipping and possibly an early death. Female bettas can also be territorial, but the males definitely shouldn't be kept together. I know you said before that you were new to ukaps, so if it's ok I'd love to send you some youtubers that make really good, planted tanks! There's loads of good advice on here too, people are extremely helpful 🙂

If you scroll back you can see the full saga of my tank. I have stocked mine with blackwater fish like tetras that enjoy dense planting and low light - similar to your fish. They're very beautiful, but very sensitive to water quality and can be quite aggressive without enough planting to hide in