• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

Tom's Bucket O' Mud - The End

Re: Tom's Bucket O' Mud - RO advice needed please

Just did a full set of pH and hardness tests for the first time...

Tap water - pH 8.1-8.4 depending on tap, 50ppm/100µS (2.8 dH)
Bucket of Mud - pH 7.5, 235ppm/470µS (13.1 dH)
Nano cube - pH 6.3, 100ppm/200µS (5.6 dH)

The nano has fairly regular water changes, whereas the Bucket I just top off evaporation so it's probably just a build up of buffering agents from the tap water causing the pH to remain high despite all the organics.

I suspect that bi-monthly water changes (about as regular as realistically possible) would be enough to bring pH and hardness down to more acceptable levels, although not to Paro breeding levels.

I was planning on having one of the new tanks I'm going to get in the new year as a dedicated Paro breeding tank and moving a pair across form the big tank until they've spawned, then back again.

Any thoughts?
 
Re: Tom's Bucket O' Mud - RO advice needed please

I'm sure I read somewhere than John Innes 3 can raise hardness and Ph.
 
Re: Tom's Bucket O' Mud - RO advice needed please

Hi all,
John Innes 3 can raise hardness and pH
Click to expand...
I agree, I think the water is too hard and salty for it to be the build up of evaporites. I think you'll have to find another water source to breed your Paros, as even
Tap water - pH 8.1-8.4 depending on tap, 50ppm/100µS (2.8 dH)
Click to expand...
is probably too hard. I'll ignore the pH, as that is caused by the sodium hydroxide, (NaOH) the water company has added, and the pH reading is only temporary until the OH- ions have been exhausted.

Sphagnum peat filtration on 100% tap water may well reduce the hardness of your tap supply to a low enough level for breeding, via ion exchange, or possibly just purchase/obtain from a lab RO or deionised water as you only need a small volume of water for them to breed in.

I also think that, because you have to leave the tank for long time periods, having more carbonate buffering that you might like is not necessarily a problem, and will actually help keep conditions stable.

cheers Darrel
 
Re: Tom's Bucket O' Mud - RO advice needed please

Thanks Darrel, very interesting reply. Will give things some thought while I'm away over the holidays and put together a plan for the new year.

I'll also do a bit of an experiment and see what effect the substrate is having on water hardness when I get a chance.
 
Re: Tom's Bucket O' Mud - RO advice needed please

Wow. I was browsing this site, and came across this thread, and had to read all 19 pages of comments - including watching the video. You've created an inspiring, gorgeous, spell-binding tank. Your photos are exquisite (my favourite - the shrimp posing on the branch in the morning light), and the video just amazing. I've seen so many wonderful tanks on this site, but yours is something else. Maybe it's the interaction of the livestock with their rather marvellous habitat. Whatever it is - thank you for sharing!

(I'll stop gushing now.)
 
Re: Tom's Bucket O' Mud - RO advice needed please

Hi all.
I think it has that effect when anyone reads this journal. It's my favourite of all journals this too. I've read it loads
Click to expand...
Same here, I've been really interested in how it is going right from the start.
my favourite - the shrimp posing on the branch
Click to expand...
I've got some other shrimps for Tom, we don't knpw quite what they are, they were bought as "Green Shrimp", from the local MA, but they are mainly a very dark chocolate brown, with a broad cream dorsal stripe from the head to the telson.

I had a bit of a posting disaster last time, but I've now got some Kordon Breathable bags and "bag buddies", so as soon as the weather warms a little bit, Tom is home, and assuming that I can actually catch some, they will be heading to Edinburgh.

cheers Darrel
 
Re: Tom's Bucket O' Mud - RO advice needed please

I'm also very fond of this thread, seeing as it inspired my low tech soil tank.
 
Re: Tom's Bucket O' Mud - RO advice needed please

Yep, definitely a top journal :)

Back to the RO... You can connect a unit without making permanent plumbing alterations by putting a split onto the water feed for the washing machine (instead of using a pierce valve thingy). That sorts the input. Then put taps on it's outputs so you can isolate them and effectively turn the unit off.

Making it unobtrusive to your housemates will likely remain a challenge though.
 
Re: Tom's Bucket O' Mud - RO advice needed please

BigTom said:
Just did a full set of pH and hardness tests for the first time...

Tap water - pH 8.1-8.4 depending on tap, 50ppm/100µS (2.8 dH)
Bucket of Mud - pH 7.5, 235ppm/470µS (13.1 dH)
Nano cube - pH 6.3, 100ppm/200µS (5.6 dH)

.......

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Hi Tom,

Just wanted to check. Are these readings for your tap water in Edinburgh? I'm stunned you have ph 8 ish in a city renown for soft water. I've never had it above 7.2 in any flat i've had.

Best Regards,
John
 
Re: Tom's Bucket O' Mud - RO advice needed please

Hi all,
I'm stunned you have ph 8 ish in a city renown for soft water.
Click to expand...
It is from added NaOH, that is why the TDS is only 50ppm, the water is still soft (it doesn't have any carbonate buffering (dKH)) although the pH is at pH8.

Because there is a relatively small number of OH- ions in solution (we know this from the TDS), and no reserve of dKH, it won't need the addition of many H+ ions (acids are H+ ion donors) to make the pH decline and potentially keep on going to very low levels.

cheers Darrel
 
Re: Tom's Bucket O' Mud - RO advice needed please

dw1305 said:
Hi all,
I'm stunned you have ph 8 ish in a city renown for soft water.
Click to expand...
It is from added NaOH, that is why the TDS is only 50ppm, the water is still soft (it doesn't have any carbonate buffering (dKH)) although the pH is at pH8.

Because there is a relatively small number of OH- ions in solution (we know this from the TDS), and no reserve of dKH, it won't need the addition of many H+ ions (acids are H+ ion donors) to make the pH decline and potentially keep on going to very low levels.

cheers Darrel
Click to expand...

i love it when you talk science at me. :D

overall thou. I've never had my ph readings that high in Edinburgh. Although i've not tested in the last couple of years.....

Am I to presume the water board in Tom's area are using Sodium Hydroxide to counter lead in the pipes that we have a problem for in the city?

When I was in Leith (another Edinburgh area to where I am now) I asked my water board for the chemical readings for my tap water. They provided me with 2 years worth of graphs for various things. Interesting read. The phosphate readings varied from 5ppm to 9ppm depending on the time of year. I was told at the time that was due to it being used to control the same Lead issues.

Would this also be removed by the use of water conditioners on water change? The NaOH. There by reducing the water to a norm ph.

Thanks,
John
 
Re: Tom's Bucket O' Mud - RO advice needed please

Hi all,
........The phosphate readings varied from 5ppm to 9ppm depending on the time of year. I was told at the time that was due to it being used to control the same Lead issues. Would this also be removed by the use of water conditioners on water change? The NaOH. There by reducing the water to a norm ph.
Click to expand...

The only real ways of getting rid of the phosphate would be with plants. You could precipitate it out bicarbonate ions (HCO3-) (this is how it works in the pipes, lead phosphate complexes are formed in the alkaline water, and are insoluble, so precipitate out of the water supply), if you had carbonate buffered water, but to get exactly the right amount of carbonate woould be difficult, if you have an excess your water would just get harder over time.

The NaOH is slightly different, because it fully disassociates into Na+ and OH- ions, it doesn't add any buffering. The natural tank processes ("bioacidification") will tend to increase the relative proportion of H+ ions, as soon as these reach the level where they out-number the OH- ions the pH will fall, and if you don't have any carbonate buffering it will continue to decline to very low pH values. The Na+ ions will also tend to build up in the tank, as they aren't taken up to any great degree by plants (nor are chloride ions and this is why the sea is salty with NaCl).

Dilution with RO (or rain water) would be the only real way of reducing both sodium and phosphorus levels (plants will remove P, but not Na).

cheers Darrel
 
Re: Tom's Bucket O' Mud - RO advice needed please

Very happy to have awesome geek chat in my thread, thanks guys :)

Love how stupid-proof this tank is... just got back from 2 weeks away and found out I'd accidentally set the light timer to be on 18 hours a day before I left. Damage done? Nothing, no algae, no unhealthy plants, in fact everything looks healthier than when I left, especially the fat little otos :)

Will do a proper update on the weekend in honour of the tank's one year anniversary!
 
Re: Tom's Bucket O' Mud - RO advice needed please

BigTom said:
Very happy to have awesome geek chat in my thread, thanks guys :)

Love how stupid-proof this tank is... just got back from 2 weeks away and found out I'd accidentally set the light timer to be on 18 hours a day before I left. Damage done? Nothing, no algae, no unhealthy plants, in fact everything looks healthier than when I left, especially the fat little otos :)

Will do a proper update on the weekend in honour of the tank's one year anniversary!
Click to expand...
Awesome! Look forward to the update.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top