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Consistency Deficiency
- Thread starter Hufsa
- Start date
plantnoobdude
Member
whattttt that was a huge oopsie on my part, my bad!
one of my biggest worry is when someone is making their own micros and make any kind of small error because we are talking about some numbers in ppb. I hope this is not the case here, am not saying you don't know what you are doing. can you post some recent pictures of your plants?
Happi there are pictures in the post on the same page as your post 😅😅 You would only have had to scroll up a bit
Micros were made with help of the IFC, so diluted solutions for all traces except Fe and Mn. All salt amounts were measured in grams and then diluted down.
lol i forgot we were on your thread. now I must be drunk.
@plantnoobdude had the exact same issues. currently you are dosing 0.5 Fe DTPA weekly ?
something like this?
| Fe | 0.5 |
| Mn | 0.28 |
| B | 0.03 |
| Cu | 0.04 |
| Mo | 0.01 |
| Zn | 0.01 |
😱
Picture was after a week of 0.3 Fe DTPA. This week will be 0.5, too early to see results as I started today.
Edit: so;
Fe 0.3
Mn 0.17
B 0.02
Cu 0.03
Mo 0.01
Zn 0.01
have you thought about just trying 0.1 ppm Fe target weekly?? Iron deficiency with 0.5 ppm Fe weekly is just not possible at this point. do a big water change and see if you notice any changes before adding more Fe
Hi all,
I used to make up a micro-mix (for work) but as @X3NiTH pointed out <"I wasn't very good at it"> and also that it <"didn't make any significant difference to plant growth">.
cheers Darrel
I just wouldn't make up my own micro-nutrient mix, unless there was a very good reason. I agree with @Happi, it is really easy to get lost in the <"powers of ten">. <"Microelement mixes"> developed for <"commercial hydroponic horticulture"> will work. The same for <"complete "all in one" mixes">, with the proviso that you need to look at the <"ammonium (NH4) content">.
I used to make up a micro-mix (for work) but as @X3NiTH pointed out <"I wasn't very good at it"> and also that it <"didn't make any significant difference to plant growth">.
cheers Darrel
A couple of days ago the Hanna PH pen arrived, thanks again for the great deal @KirstyF I really appreciate it 🥰
Today im doing a PH profile, and so far it looks like I will be able to shave down the pre-lights CO2 period by 2 hours.
Up until now I have had the CO2 come on 4 hours before lights are on full just to be sure, but now that I have a slightly better way of measuring the drop it looks like 2 hours will be sufficient Thats good, correlates with what I have been feeling is a decently high injection rate.
Shorter time before lights on also means shorter time the water has CO2 injection without the significant oxygen production of the plants. This should be healthier for everyone, fish, microbes and plants.
I have up until now used a light intensity ramp up (and down) period of 30 minutes, but I am going to pull the light ramp up to a bit earlier to cover parts of the CO2 ramp up.
This way I hope the plants can gradually wake up and get going with photosynthesis and production of oxygen while the CO2 is also ramping up, without running into issues where demand exceeds CO2 availability. My goal is in other words to not have large periods of time where CO2 levels are high and oxygen levels are low.
I certainly dont think it is critical to do it this way, im just trying to tune my system to be as good as possible in a way that makes sense to me. YMMV
Im going to run this week at 0.5 Fe, possibly also next week. I will make up a new batch for this as I am almost running out. For those who suspect that I have messed up the micro mix, I would like to remind you that this chlorosis issue predates the custom micro mix by several months. So I had the same issue when I was using the trace blend from APF UK.
The custom micro calculations were all done by the IFC calculator and I followed the instructions meticulously. Hopefully it is not an error in the calculator.
Today im doing a PH profile, and so far it looks like I will be able to shave down the pre-lights CO2 period by 2 hours.
Up until now I have had the CO2 come on 4 hours before lights are on full just to be sure, but now that I have a slightly better way of measuring the drop it looks like 2 hours will be sufficient
Thats good, correlates with what I have been feeling is a decently high injection rate.Shorter time before lights on also means shorter time the water has CO2 injection without the significant oxygen production of the plants. This should be healthier for everyone, fish, microbes and plants.
I have up until now used a light intensity ramp up (and down) period of 30 minutes, but I am going to pull the light ramp up to a bit earlier to cover parts of the CO2 ramp up.
This way I hope the plants can gradually wake up and get going with photosynthesis and production of oxygen while the CO2 is also ramping up, without running into issues where demand exceeds CO2 availability. My goal is in other words to not have large periods of time where CO2 levels are high and oxygen levels are low.
I certainly dont think it is critical to do it this way, im just trying to tune my system to be as good as possible in a way that makes sense to me. YMMV
Im going to run this week at 0.5 Fe, possibly also next week. I will make up a new batch for this as I am almost running out. For those who suspect that I have messed up the micro mix, I would like to remind you that this chlorosis issue predates the custom micro mix by several months. So I had the same issue when I was using the trace blend from APF UK.
The custom micro calculations were all done by the IFC calculator and I followed the instructions meticulously. Hopefully it is not an error in the calculator.
I forgot to add, today I spotted a shrimp with two Scutariella parasites on its head 😡
The colony has been seemingly parasite free since they were released from the fry rings, but now its back 🤬
I would very much like to know the mechanics around how it can reappear so much later 😓
The colony has been seemingly parasite free since they were released from the fry rings, but now its back 🤬
I would very much like to know the mechanics around how it can reappear so much later 😓
Results of todays PH profile:
07:00 - Skimmer off, CO2 on. (This used to be 06:00 but I didnt want to get up that early today 😛)
07:20 - 6.7, first reading got a bit delayed
07:30 - 6.6
08:00 - 6.4
08:30 - 6.3
09:00 - 6.2
09:30 - 6.2 - Light ramp up
10:00 - 6.2 - Light full
10:30 - 6.2
11:00 - 6.2
11:30 - 6.2
12:00 - 6.2
12:30 - 6.2
13:00 - 6.1 *
13:30 - 6.2 *
14:00 - 6.1 *
14:30 - 6.1 *
15:00 - 6.1 *
15:30 - 6.2 *
16:00 - 6.1
16:30 - 6.1
17:00 - 6.1 - CO2 off
17:30 - 6.2
18:00 - 6.3 - Light ramp down
18:30 - 6.4 - Light off, skimmer on
19:00 - 6.5
22:30 - 6.9
*Meter was flickering a fair bit between 6.1 and 6.2 on the values marked, I think the value was very close between them.
Meter has an accuracy of ±0.2 pH and resolution of 0.1 pH, so I think this is about as precise as I can expect.
Degassed tank water PH 7.2. Two hours to ramp up, total drop 1 to 1.1 degrees.
Not quite a perfect profile with less than 0.1 variance but it doesnt feel bad either.
Based on readings have made a few adjustments to the whole timeline, mostly for my own notes;
08:00 Skimmer off, CO2 on
08:30 Lights ramp up + Dose micro
10:00 Lights full
11:00 Dose1 macro
12:00 Dose2 macro
13:00 Dose3 macro
14:00 Dose4 macro
17:00 CO2 off
18:00 Lights ramp down
18:30 Lights off, skimmer on
07:00 - Skimmer off, CO2 on. (This used to be 06:00 but I didnt want to get up that early today 😛)
07:20 - 6.7, first reading got a bit delayed
07:30 - 6.6
08:00 - 6.4
08:30 - 6.3
09:00 - 6.2
09:30 - 6.2 - Light ramp up
10:00 - 6.2 - Light full
10:30 - 6.2
11:00 - 6.2
11:30 - 6.2
12:00 - 6.2
12:30 - 6.2
13:00 - 6.1 *
13:30 - 6.2 *
14:00 - 6.1 *
14:30 - 6.1 *
15:00 - 6.1 *
15:30 - 6.2 *
16:00 - 6.1
16:30 - 6.1
17:00 - 6.1 - CO2 off
17:30 - 6.2
18:00 - 6.3 - Light ramp down
18:30 - 6.4 - Light off, skimmer on
19:00 - 6.5
22:30 - 6.9
*Meter was flickering a fair bit between 6.1 and 6.2 on the values marked, I think the value was very close between them.
Meter has an accuracy of ±0.2 pH and resolution of 0.1 pH, so I think this is about as precise as I can expect.
Degassed tank water PH 7.2. Two hours to ramp up, total drop 1 to 1.1 degrees.
Not quite a perfect profile with less than 0.1 variance but it doesnt feel bad either.
Based on readings have made a few adjustments to the whole timeline, mostly for my own notes;
08:00 Skimmer off, CO2 on
08:30 Lights ramp up + Dose micro
10:00 Lights full
11:00 Dose1 macro
12:00 Dose2 macro
13:00 Dose3 macro
14:00 Dose4 macro
17:00 CO2 off
18:00 Lights ramp down
18:30 Lights off, skimmer on
These photos were taken five days ago and were supposed to be uploaded then, but better late than never right 😅
I just got back home from visiting family and missed todays photoperiod, so will snap some new pics of the plants tomorrow, they have grown a fair bit
The drop in CO2 demand that @John q prophesied appeared, I was almost starting to think it wouldnt. Of course it happened the day right before I was going to leave. I turned the injection down slightly, trying for "not entirely enough" rather than "still too much". What I like though about running ~20 ppm CO2 is that instead of "panic" there was only "oh, the CO2 is a bit over target", and there were no fish gasping at the surface or even breathing rapidly. And the plants certainly didnt mind 😏
(JBL's 20ppm target liquid in use, so not standard solution)
Everybody say "EI micros!"
Cuba and the gang still pale as ghosts, only now some of them are also red because the light got turned up a bit.
I did a pretty drastic thinning of the thicket of Cuba a little while ago, hoping to get a few more stems to take off with better flow ++ around them. Seems to have worked.
Rotala rotundifolia "Orange Juice" is starting to color up, a combination of higher light intensity and also getting closer to the light source finally. Not really visible in this picture but I reckon we will see it tomorrow. Whitish green instead of fresh green on the tips of the java ferns, these guys arent happy either with whatever the issue is.
Hygrophila polysperma got a bit upset with me for snipping it all the way down to the substrate.
Blyxa turned red, probably from the light increase. One whole unstunted stem of pedicellata got moved out of the group for more flow.
Super Red is really enjoying the light. I think this was the main reason I had problems with this species before.
Pantanal sprigs in various locations are holding on to life.
I could swear sometimes it feels like the otos are deliberately trying to make eye-contact with me.
Is it mouthing AL-GAE.. WA-FER?
I just got back home from visiting family and missed todays photoperiod, so will snap some new pics of the plants tomorrow, they have grown a fair bit
The drop in CO2 demand that @John q prophesied appeared, I was almost starting to think it wouldnt. Of course it happened the day right before I was going to leave. I turned the injection down slightly, trying for "not entirely enough" rather than "still too much". What I like though about running ~20 ppm CO2 is that instead of "panic" there was only "oh, the CO2 is a bit over target", and there were no fish gasping at the surface or even breathing rapidly. And the plants certainly didnt mind 😏
(JBL's 20ppm target liquid in use, so not standard solution)
Everybody say "EI micros!"
Cuba and the gang still pale as ghosts, only now some of them are also red because the light got turned up a bit.
I did a pretty drastic thinning of the thicket of Cuba a little while ago, hoping to get a few more stems to take off with better flow ++ around them. Seems to have worked.
Rotala rotundifolia "Orange Juice" is starting to color up, a combination of higher light intensity and also getting closer to the light source finally. Not really visible in this picture but I reckon we will see it tomorrow. Whitish green instead of fresh green on the tips of the java ferns, these guys arent happy either with whatever the issue is.
Hygrophila polysperma got a bit upset with me for snipping it all the way down to the substrate.
Blyxa turned red, probably from the light increase. One whole unstunted stem of pedicellata got moved out of the group for more flow.
Super Red is really enjoying the light. I think this was the main reason I had problems with this species before.
Pantanal sprigs in various locations are holding on to life.
I could swear sometimes it feels like the otos are deliberately trying to make eye-contact with me.
Is it mouthing AL-GAE.. WA-FER?
This really looks like some sort of deficiency., with the new leaves looking yellower/more chlorotic than the older leaves? With all these valuable plants in your tank, would you consider temporarily trying an 'all-in-one' fert like TNC or APT for a while, to see if they improve? Cuba/Pantanals are fast growers so they should respond fast.
Not much to report, plants coloring up from the light but still pale at 0.5 Fe + traces.
This one stem of Orange Juice closest to the light has colored up a lot and is looking really lovely 🥰
Note the white patches in Heteranthera zosterifolia, whatever the issue is it seems to present as these "random" white patches in some plants, you can see it also in the Hydrocotyle.
Cuba is getting really really wide, I replanted both these tops after the picture along with the Super Red. Will grab a FTS soon.
After the weekend Im going to try a different ratio of micros, hoping that the issue lies with either the amount of one of the other traces or competition between very high and quite low ones.
If that doesnt work then the next thing to try is a premade fertilizer to rule out some mixing issue as @erwin123 has suggested.
This one stem of Orange Juice closest to the light has colored up a lot and is looking really lovely 🥰
Note the white patches in Heteranthera zosterifolia, whatever the issue is it seems to present as these "random" white patches in some plants, you can see it also in the Hydrocotyle.
Cuba is getting really really wide, I replanted both these tops after the picture along with the Super Red. Will grab a FTS soon.
After the weekend Im going to try a different ratio of micros, hoping that the issue lies with either the amount of one of the other traces or competition between very high and quite low ones.
If that doesnt work then the next thing to try is a premade fertilizer to rule out some mixing issue as @erwin123 has suggested.
I think I mentioned a while back I got a few peace lily cuttings from my mother to try growing emersed in my tank later on. ..Or did I?
Cant be bothered to check, im mentioning it now anyway
It was just supposed to be that and maybe a "parlour palm" thing, im not entirely sure what happened but I seem to have lost control of my body and now have the kitchen table full of various beautiful plants to try to use as really fancy duckweed. I dont know where I am going to put all these plants and I need to stop before things spiral completely out of control, if they havent already.
Its been a while since I last visited a garden center, probably a couple of years at least. I forgot how nice it is to just walk around in there, looking at the plants and smelling the fragrant air.
It was very unhelpful of them to have a sale on assorted mini plants, 3 for ...something. I wasnt really paying attention as I was already gleefully picking out plants.
By mini plants I of course mean normal plants that are 1/10th the size of regular plants but somehow 1/3rd the price. Funny how that works isnt it.
At some point I remembered that I have no idea what I am doing, and that I should probably check that they can grow hydroponically at all.
Fear not, UKAPS had the answer and some searching turned up this link of hydro-compatible plants. Thats a lot of shinies isnt it...
The plants I will need to figure out what to do with are the following:
Spathiphyllum 'Chopin'
Chamadorea elegans
Calathea 'Freddie' (I guess some plants come pre-named now, it didnt strike me as a Fred but what do I know)
Asplenium nidus 'Crispy Wave'
Anthurium with purple flower
Random mystery fern (The garden center staff had no idea what this was, and after bothering 3 separate employees about the ID of said fern I was about to commit seppuku from social embarrassment and decided it would be better to hear what @dw1305 thinks it is instead of continuing to harass the poor staff)
The Anthurium has a cooler purple tone in real life, but for the life of me I could not get the camera to register it right
The unfortunate plants that ended up in my possession. Did I mention that I dont have a green thumb? I think it may actually be black and necrotic..
Im trying to covert them to growing hydroponically, while I try to figure out how im gonna keep them long term, if they even make it that far 😅
I dont want to add anything emersed to the tank right now while the chlorosis issue is unsolved.
And I am worried that many big emersed plants will make growing my submersed plants in good form difficult. Might start a thread about it.
FTSwarts and all all warts.
Moved a few plants around, the right hand side looks a little less tragic now, lush stargrass saves the day 😁
Ludwigia sp. Marilia got moved to a brighter spot, I could tell within a day that it really appreciated it, camera has washed all the color out (as usual
) but its turning a bright sunny yellow.
The propagation of Super Red is going well as you can also see. Pleased that I was able to rescue the few stems I had left.
Some gratuitous noodle pics for @shangman and @KirstyF 😉
Speaking of beady eyes, do you guys have any idea how hard it is to get focus exactly on a tiny beady eye with a phone camera that is well past replacement time
Ill continue to pat myself on the back for not replacing my phones until they break, and while I do I get a convenient excuse for lack of photographic skill! 😎
This noodle has a unique little chin strap in his pattern, but only on that side.
This one kept getting photobombed by shrimp
Windowsill subjects doing ok. Pedicellata Golden has put out a lot of roots lately, the sprigs of Pantanal are not doing amazing. Thinking of transferring them to aquasoil.
Native fissidens mosses doing well. The color difference is interesting. I removed the native fissidens from the tank as I was really low on space and they were just not that decorative.
Drop checker color of today. Still 20ppm liquid. Not 20ppm green.
Not sure what I want any more. Fish seem very comfortable at this level and even when it was higher. So should I bother with decreasing? Will give it some more thought.
Cant be bothered to check, im mentioning it now anyway
It was just supposed to be that and maybe a "parlour palm" thing, im not entirely sure what happened but I seem to have lost control of my body and now have the kitchen table full of various beautiful plants to try to use as really fancy duckweed. I dont know where I am going to put all these plants and I need to stop before things spiral completely out of control, if they havent already.
Its been a while since I last visited a garden center, probably a couple of years at least. I forgot how nice it is to just walk around in there, looking at the plants and smelling the fragrant air.
It was very unhelpful of them to have a sale on assorted mini plants, 3 for ...something. I wasnt really paying attention as I was already gleefully picking out plants.
By mini plants I of course mean normal plants that are 1/10th the size of regular plants but somehow 1/3rd the price. Funny how that works isnt it.
At some point I remembered that I have no idea what I am doing, and that I should probably check that they can grow hydroponically at all.
Fear not, UKAPS had the answer and some searching turned up this link of hydro-compatible plants. Thats a lot of shinies isnt it...
The plants I will need to figure out what to do with are the following:
Spathiphyllum 'Chopin'
Chamadorea elegans
Calathea 'Freddie' (I guess some plants come pre-named now, it didnt strike me as a Fred but what do I know)
Asplenium nidus 'Crispy Wave'
Anthurium with purple flower
Random mystery fern (The garden center staff had no idea what this was, and after bothering 3 separate employees about the ID of said fern I was about to commit seppuku from social embarrassment and decided it would be better to hear what @dw1305 thinks it is instead of continuing to harass the poor staff)
The Anthurium has a cooler purple tone in real life, but for the life of me I could not get the camera to register it right
The unfortunate plants that ended up in my possession. Did I mention that I dont have a green thumb? I think it may actually be black and necrotic..
Im trying to covert them to growing hydroponically, while I try to figure out how im gonna keep them long term, if they even make it that far 😅
I dont want to add anything emersed to the tank right now while the chlorosis issue is unsolved.
And I am worried that many big emersed plants will make growing my submersed plants in good form difficult. Might start a thread about it.
FTS
Moved a few plants around, the right hand side looks a little less tragic now, lush stargrass saves the day 😁
Ludwigia sp. Marilia got moved to a brighter spot, I could tell within a day that it really appreciated it, camera has washed all the color out (as usual
) but its turning a bright sunny yellow.The propagation of Super Red is going well as you can also see. Pleased that I was able to rescue the few stems I had left.
Some gratuitous noodle pics for @shangman and @KirstyF 😉
Speaking of beady eyes, do you guys have any idea how hard it is to get focus exactly on a tiny beady eye with a phone camera that is well past replacement time
Ill continue to pat myself on the back for not replacing my phones until they break, and while I do I get a convenient excuse for lack of photographic skill! 😎
This noodle has a unique little chin strap in his pattern, but only on that side.
This one kept getting photobombed by shrimp
Windowsill subjects doing ok. Pedicellata Golden has put out a lot of roots lately, the sprigs of Pantanal are not doing amazing. Thinking of transferring them to aquasoil.
Native fissidens mosses doing well. The color difference is interesting. I removed the native fissidens from the tank as I was really low on space and they were just not that decorative.
Drop checker color of today. Still 20ppm liquid. Not 20ppm green.
Not sure what I want any more. Fish seem very comfortable at this level and even when it was higher. So should I bother with decreasing? Will give it some more thought.
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ScareCrow
Member
I believe the fern in the picture not named in your post is Didymochlaena truncata.
That list is really useful, thanks for sharing. I think some of the plants listed can be grown hydroponically but depending on the type of system used. Aloes were the one that jumped out at me. They wouldn't do well sat in water but using a spray system would work perfectly.
That list is really useful, thanks for sharing. I think some of the plants listed can be grown hydroponically but depending on the type of system used. Aloes were the one that jumped out at me. They wouldn't do well sat in water but using a spray system would work perfectly.
Ahh, that looks to be the one! Complete with brown fronds, I thought maybe it just had a case of the blues
Thank goodness for UKAPS. The garden center staff were not of the "personal interest in plants" kind, and after proudly declaring that it was probably a fern, and then later going back on it and declaring that it definitely wasnt a fern, but probably a maidenhair fern, I realized the odds were stacked against me and the little unlabeled sprig, and decided to cut my losses 😁
Yeah about the list I think youre right to say conditions apply. I know pretty much dang diddly squat about houseplants but I know a Peace Lily will tolerate very different conditions than say, a fern.
Thanks for the labeled image too, I realise I forgot to list the bottom left fern, it was bought as Nephrolepis cordifolia 'Duffii', do you think that is a correct ID?
After reading up on these plants a bit more this morning I think I need to move them further into the room from the window. The sunlight this time of year comes in very low and at the latter part of the day goes in through that window like a vengeful laserbeam. The window in question faces northwest.
I see a lot of care details listing "half shade" & "indirect light". Im not a plantonomolologist or anything but I think that means angry lazor will not do.
