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What exactly causes BBA?

sciencefiction said:
One step at a time and wait 🙂
I would remove as much BBA as possible. Then take a few pictures of the plants that get affected the most. Then compare in two weeks. This way you'll know if it keeps growing or not.
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Yes, I already can compare with before: whereas before I had to remove leaves infested with new appearing BBA every day, Now I am doing that every 2-3 days... Hopefully that will fade to nothing... I will definitively keep you posted guys. Thanks!
 
sciencefiction said:
Here is one more article on BBA, specifically a type(Compsopogon coeruleus) that invades fresh water aquariums. Apparently, it loves the flow as all of us have already noticed.

http://www.academia.edu/10906960/Fi...albis_Montagne_Rhodophyta_in_Flanders_Belgium_

Compsopogon
coeruleus
clearly preferred strong current. The species seemed unable to initiate a successful colonization in slow current or standing-water conditions. It could however endure such conditions for relatively long periods. This preference for stronger currents was confirmed from the other aquaria in Belgium from which it was reported. Therefore, in our opinion, changes in the current velocity could be used for controlling of the growth of this alga and even for its elimination from aquaria. This approach in combination with efficient grazers, such as
Ameca splendens may prove to be quite successful.

Generally,the species was reported to be attached to the surface of the leaves of
Vallisneria spiralis but could also be found on other aquatic macrophytes with strong leaves (e.g. Hydrocotyle spp., Anubias spp.).
Initial colonisation mostly started on the edges of the host leaves andincreased inward onto the leaf surface. In the majority of the cases it developed epiphytically in Amazone aquaria with pH 6-6.5 (relatively rarer 6.5-7.5), at water temperatures from 24-27°C and always preferred hosts exposed to increased water current. This was mostly near the outlet of the filtering apparatus with maximum output between 1892 and 1900 liters per hour. After decreasing the current velocity by more than 60% a degradation of cells and their content was observed
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This article is great and confirms exactly my experience. The slower pump I have now is rated 2000 liters per hour... The one used before was 3000 liters per hour. I am wondering if an even slower pump could help even more! Just wondering...

Thanks for such useful information.
 
fablau said:
This article is great and confirms exactly my experience. The slower pump I have now is rated 2000 liters per hour... The one used before was 3000 liters per hour. I am wondering if an even slower pump could help even more! Just wondering...
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High flow might help the BBA once you have it, but this doesnt mean it triggers it to appear. A bit like saying phosphates cause algae, no it doesnt it just feeds it. So is one solution to lower the flow? Well you might get worse plant growth in some cases depending on many factors, and this can actually end up being counter productive. Just becareful with your conclusions.

Nice pieces of info Sciencefiction. Ill have a read and give my thoughts later on.
 
Flow in terms of delivery to plants is about getting the distribution right, not about how high the flow is. So if you are able to efficiently distribute lower flow, understand linear flow and such, then plants won't suffer, just BBA. At least that's the idea I suppose. There are plenty of unconventional co2 tanks with lower flow doing great. The article is talking about degradation of cells when the flow is withdrawn from the BBA, which sounds significant enough even though not as easy to employ in tanks as we need the flow for filters at least.

So now we've got a few variables, it loves high flow, it has affinity to organic carbon as a source. It loves clear waters, slightly polluted, etc.. I think I am going to the shop to buy some redbush tea to stain the water in my tank with tannins for a while.
If someone else finds something else about it, we may eventually see the whole picture. There could be a variable that inhibits the BBA significantly which we could employ. We just must find it. The info is out there and in our tanks in front of our own eyes.
 
sciencefiction said:
There are plenty of unconventional co2 tanks with lower flow doing great.
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There are also many tanks doing great with high flow and no BBA. So while it could be an option once you have BBA, I dont see the need if your tank doesnt have it. But then how much flow is enough?, because flow is very important for co2 distribution. So if you have high light and reduce the flow you could get into trouble. It depends on the light ammount and the co2 method you use and a few other things. Maybe you are just better off picking it out by hand or spot dosing with glut. I doubt the flow reduction is going to make a huge difference basically because plants in a high tech also need a minimum flow.
 
Jose said:
There are also many tanks doing great with high flow and no BBA. So while it could be an option once you have BBA
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Yes, including my other low tech tanks, all 10x flow and no BBA. I don't say high flow is the only variable, but it may provide a favourable environment at the same time when you have the BBA already. We've all seen it...I've seen it at least.

And you can have as much flow as you want in your tank, but if you set it up in a way so your flow devices counteract each other, then you'll still have dead spots. Isn't that the biggest problem.... with CO2 distribution... people still set up their freshwater planted tanks as if they are marine tanks with powerheads sticking out from every corner, blowing in all possible directions. Or they tend to put their outlets just in front of the bunch of wood or bunch of tall plants, etc.. not planning the aquascape correctly for the flow to be able to reach the other side and bounce back from where it started in the same direction, at the same time, reaching all areas of the tank...

However, when we treat BBA, we must change tactics. When we don't have BBA, we do nothing.
There's a difference between the two. Once you "cure" the algae, you can tweak things further.
You don't spot dose your plants with excel pro-actively as to prevent BBA. You spot dose when they already have BBA.....if you know what I am trying to say.
 
So the only way to know if reducing flow could be an alternative is if someone with BBA tries it for us. Maybe people can try this:
1) Lower temp to 22/23 degrees.
2) Remove any extra flow/pumps that you have.
Keep everything else the same for some time.
If you change many more things youll never really know what made a difference and this is generally the case.
I cant do this experiment because I dont get BBA. I keep my tank at 22 degrees.
 
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dw1305 said:
Black Brush Algae is most likely to be Audouinella spp. <"http://algalweb.net/rhodo.htm">
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I found some info accidentally browsing. It's from yahoo but the source of the info is John Kinross, his website being the link you provided above.

There are between 2,500 and 6,000 species of Rhodophyta or red algae. They are an ancient group of organisms; fossil records place them in the mid-proterozoic. It is believed that Rhodophyta were among the first multicellular organisms.
Red algae are red because of the presence of the pigment phycoerythrin; this pigment reflects red light and absorbs blue light. Because blue light penetrates water to a greater depth than light of longer wavelengths, these pigments allow red algae to photosynthesize and live at somewhat greater depths than most other "algae". Some rhodophytes have very little phycoerythrin, and may appear green or bluish from the chlorophyll and other pigments present in them.
There are four common species of freshwater Rhodophyta- Batrachospermum, Lemanea, Audouinella (=Rhodochorton ) and Audouinella (green). Typically, they are found in cold, fast-moving streams.
Batrachospermum species are filamentous red algae, which branch repeatedly in a characteristic fashion. There is a multiseriate main axis of elongated, fasciated cells, which may branch several times. Along the main axis and branches, whorls of short filaments all of a similar length arise. The plant is large enough to be visible with the naked eye, but a microscope is necessary to examine the details.
The whole plant is enveloped in a slippery mucilage, which together with its beaded appearance has given rise to the name: "Batrachospermum" means "frog-spawn alga", though it better resembles toad spawn. In the aquarium hobby, this algae is known as BBA, black beard algae or just beard algae. It can be seen clinging tenaciously to plant leaves and stems.
The colour of the plant is not in fact red, but may be a range of colours from brown to green or olive-green. It grows attached to stable surfaces
Lemanea This is another Rhodophyte which is not red: it is usually greyish, and has rather a coarse, wiry feel. Characteristically, it grows in moderate to fast currents; it branches rather sparsely, and the whole plant is quite streamlined in appearance. It can grow to 10 cm. or more. This type is commonly referred to as black brush algae, BBA or just brush algae.
Audouinella is a rather small plant, which forms a reddish or brownish turf on stones or on other algae. The most common form is a pinkish hue when seen under the microscope, but there is also a variety which is a greenish-grey colour. It branches repeatedly, the branches often running almost parallel to the main branch.

Sources: John Kinross, School of Life Sciences, Napier University, Edinburgh
John is a technician within the School of Life Sciences, currently focussed on research into the ecotoxicology of nanomaterials in algae and invertebrates. John's interests lie in aquatic sciences and in particular, algae (see www.algalweb.net), with experience of water quality assessment through chemical and biological testing (BOD, COD, GC-MS, nutrient assay, sediment characterisation, microbiology, chlorophyll assay, dissolved oxygen, invertebrate indicators, algal biodiversity).
.
 
Hi all,
sciencefiction said:
The plant is large enough to be visible with the naked eye, but a microscope is necessary to examine the details.
The whole plant is enveloped in a slippery mucilage, which together with its beaded appearance has given rise to the name: "Batrachospermum" means "frog-spawn alga", though it better resembles toad spawn. In the aquarium hobby, this algae is known as BBA, black beard algae or just beard algae. It can be seen clinging tenaciously to plant leaves and stems.
Click to expand...
sciencefiction said:
Lemanea This is another Rhodophyte which is not red: it is usually greyish, and has rather a coarse, wiry feel. Characteristically, it grows in moderate to fast currents; it branches rather sparsely, and the whole plant is quite streamlined in appearance. It can grow to 10 cm. or more. This type is commonly referred to as black brush algae, BBA or just brush algae.
Click to expand...
Now that is very useful.

I'm not in work this week, but next week I'll get some microscope pictures of the BBA in my tank, By the look of it Batrachospermum, Lemanea & Audouinella syn. (Rhodochorton) are different enough to get an ID. Rhodochorton would be my guess.

cheers Darrel
 
Hi all,
dw1305 said:
I'm not in work this week, but next week I'll get some microscope pictures of the BBA in my tank, By the look of it Batrachospermum, Lemanea & Audouinella syn. (Rhodochorton) are different enough to get an ID. Rhodochorton would be my guess.
Click to expand...
I've taken some microscope pictures of the BBA from one of my fish tanks (both at x100).

rhodophytaX100a_zpshfuxggum.jpg

In the image below, you can see filaments in the haploid phase with bundles of carpogosporangia on short side branches
rhodophytaX100b_zpsuw1qfzsa.jpg
Looking at <"Audouinella | microscopes.....">, and it looks like Audouinella is the correct ID.

cheers Darrel
 
Oh, nice.....Thanks Darrel. I am going to get a microscopic picture of mine.

Just a paragraph about it from the book I downloaded:

Audouinella Bory de St. Vincent (Figs. 2F–J and 3A)
Audouinella is composed of short, branched,
uniaxial filaments, which typically grow in dense tufts,
usually less than 1 cm in diameter but up to 2–3 cm.
The filaments may be composed of erect and prostrate
axes. Apices of erect axes often terminate with colorless
hair cells. Cells contain either reddish or bluish,
parietal, ribbon-like chloroplasts. The cell diameter is
6–26 μm. Filaments occur most commonly with monosporangia
(5–38 μm in diameter) at the branch tips.
Only reddish species have been observed to be sexual
or tetrasporic. Colorless spermatangia (4–5 μm in diameter)
occur in clusters at the branch tips; carpogonia
have a cylindrical base and thin trichogyne (30 μm in
length). Carposporophytes are spherical, compact mass
of short gonimoblast filaments; carposporangia are
obovoid (10 13 μm). Tetrasporangia are also formed
at the branch tips (9 μm in diameter).

Audouinella is a widespread genus in streams,
ranging from the North Slope of Alaska to Costa Rica
(Necchi et al., 1993a, b). A. hermannii, the most common
species in North America, tends to occur in cool
waters (11°C), with a low ion content (104 μS cm–1)
and mildly alkaline pH (7.5). A. eugenea and A. pygmaea
are typical of warm streams of high ion content
 
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