What exactly causes BBA?

[zozo]

In every shop where i bought came with some kind of algea on it.. Exept from sponsor FLowgrow and co they where spot on clean.. From wath i can see i have a few. Hair, bg, bb and now i'm using medication for the fish i see bacto bloom as well.

The green ones love that bloom, the wood is getting greener.. Older leaves i see first comming with bb.. The balance is the cirkel and the cause.. I think the people with scapes with lesser plants will do lesser pruning and have more chances getting out off balance..

I have now

Eleocharis acicularis 'Mini'
Hemianthus callitrichoides Cuba
Pogostemon helferi
Anubias Nana Petit
Riccardia chamedryfolia- Mini Pelia
Vesicularia dubyana Santa Claus
Fissidens fontanus
Utricularia graminifolia
Rotala Mexicana Goias
Bucephalandra
Bolbitis heudelotii
Rotala mini type 2
Bolbitis heteroclita difformis
Bolbitis sp. 'Buea' (Didymoglossum erosum)
Pygmea Nymphea Rosennymphe Bonsai
Lilaepsis Brasiliensis
Drepanocladus aduncus (Sneak in)
Potamogeton gayi
Rotala Indica 'Bonsai'
cabomba
echinodorus dschungelstar nr 2 kleiner bär

in litlle more than 40 liters of water 🙂.. My basic thought is "energy" fight it off with pruning and only keeping the young ones, they want energy the most. Keeping old ones slows young ones down. I have a lot to prune and can prune a lot without ruining my scape. That's just a style remedy against the cause.. Working like fruit growers like making old ones more beautiful we need an other style by pruning the lesser developed young ones tho make bigger old ones. But still the balance is energy.. I make my plants work, not let the plant do the work for me by looking at them grow (algea). 🙂 Actualy, what i want to say to the algea growers, is look at your plants at closer detail then you do now.. Thats difficult when it gets bushy and at the point where you like it the most and change it the less.. But still there is the key, the impossible constant energy. Thats wath i think and til now im pretty sure of myself. Find the balance in pruning and amount of plants. The seinctific numbers i don't have a answer for, thats a interesting reason also to read UKAPS.. 🙂

 

[zozo]

Yesterday i got i perfect example for myself which i overlooked about make your plants work don't let them work.. Forgot to take pictures, but share my experience anyway.
The Lilaepsis Brasiliensis i bought, i saw it had a little BBA on it when i came home..Did cut it all away, but the spores are still there can't see but can't just get around that. So that's the cause in the first place for everyboddy i guess. Introduction. 🙂

Did put some of that Lilaepsis at the base of the Echinodorus Dschungelstar, to create some feathering contrast with with the Big leaves of the Echinodorus. And that plant is a perfect example for possible cause of BBA to get a foothold. I did put my Enchi almost in front of the filter outlet, it gets about the best stream provided in the whole tank. And still this plant was making it's own dead spots for himself. A plant like that can easily shield some of it's own leaves from decent flow. Just a small leave supresed in the corner and shielded and hidden by it's own 2 big brothers. I only noticed it, to realy dig into the plant and pull leaves a side with the tweezers for inspection. And there the little culprit was covered in long strains of BBA ready to infect the rest (of the tank). I f waited a week longer with diggin trough Enchi i guess i had to do a lot more cutting then i did now.. 🙂

Incuficient flow, as so often suggested as cause doesn't always say your pump is''t strong enough. Maybe your choice of plant(s) in that particular spot isn't right, in the way you want it to grow there.

If you spot some tiny patch of BBA in your tank and you heavily planted, it's time to put on this song

and start digging and you might find the nest, before it is (almost) to late..

 

[DanielC03]

[Quote = "zozo, post: 402634, miembro de: 13.448"] Ayer me dieron ejemplo perfecto yo por mí mismo que pasé por alto acerca de hacer que sus plantas funcionan no dejes que trabajan .. olvidé de tomar fotos, pero compartir mi experiencia de todos modos. Pero las esporas Siguen Ahí no puedo ver, Pero No puedo CONSEGUIR Alrededor de eso. .. [/ quote]

Amigo: esporas están en todas partes. Crecerá cuando las condiciones son buenas -. Sólo eso.

 

[zozo]

🙂 Yo lo se.. Just saying.. Gracias.

 

[xim]

BBA can grow on areas with very strong flow, even on the opening of the outflow pipe.
The idea of getting good flow to prevent algae doesn't mean algae can't grow in strong flow area.
But to promote good CO2, ferts, and waste circulation for better plant growth.

I mean you shouldn't think that the area (right in front of the outlet) has not enough flow.

 

[zozo]

I know 🙂 it can be all over your tank.. But in my case it nested first at a quite obvious spot, that might not be as obvious at all for everybody.,
I noticed first in the Myriophyllum Brasiliensis which is next to the Enchinodorus also in the highflow corner of the tank. And its a typical plant that catches everything browsing around, specialy in a high flow corner. And i'm looking closly everyday, and all of a sudden i see a few quite long strangs of BBA hanging and waving in the Myriophyllum Brasiliensis, actualy was hard to see this stuff has a verry good camouflage in this plant. Such long strains, it cant grow in 12 hours 🙂, so i looked 360 degrees around in my tank and at first glans i couldnt find anything more. So i started diggin around, because it had to came frome somewhere. The Enchinodorus was growing very good lately and became quite large. I pulled it apart and found the nest between 2 rather large leaves, a younger leafe growing hiden in between looking like Evil Raspoetine and came to the ponit of loosing a lot of long strains BBA. 🙂 That leave was so well hidden i overlook it all this time, i do not know how long it was there growing this stuff.. I realy should heve taken pictures of it.

I guess a lot of people fighting a pest of BBA have also overlooked the first nest for even longer till it gets out of hand.. Where it's everywhere where you look and dig..

I know how i got it, i had my co2 fluctuating the first 3 weeks. And soem infected fish, did a lot of water changes, twice to three times a week, the infection is gone, think and hope got it right now..

 

[fablau]

I have been able to remove completely BBA from my tank. Here is what I have done to make it disappear from my tank for the past month:

1. Got back to regular EI schedule by daily alternating macros with micros. Dosing 1/3 less than the recommended EI, just because I perform water change every 2 weeks.

2. Four weeks ago, after water change, I added recommended dose of Excel (the high dosage recommended after water change). That destroyed completely all BBA I had, but also damaged some of my Vals (too bad!) that have now recovered 🙂

3. Raised Co2 a little until I could see pearling on plants (tanks Tom for the tip I read on another thread somewhere!). As a reference, I raised Co2 to reach 80ml per minute. And I'll keep it that way from now on!

So... this has been my recipe to get rid of BBA after 8 months of struggling!

I think the following points helped a big deal:

1. Excel helped to get rid of everything bad was out right at that moment (BBA)

2. Raising Co2.

3. Getting back into regular fert routine without being afraid of "toxicities". I mean, all my plants got better, Alternathera Reinikii included which was struggling in a long time! In particular I think the increase of micros helped the most.


I hope my experience could be useful for other people. I'll keep watching my tank to see if that damn BBA will ever come back, but so far so good! Thanks again to anyone on this forum for the help given.

Best,
Fab.

 

[Zak Rafik]

I have been able to remove completely BBA from my tank. Here is what I have done to make it disappear from my tank for the past month:
1. Got back to regular EI schedule by daily alternating macros with micros. Dosing 1/3 less than the recommended EI, just because I perform water change every 2 weeks.
2. Four weeks ago, after water change, I added recommended dose of Excel (the high dosage recommended after water change). That destroyed completely all BBA I had, but also damaged some of my Vals (too bad!) that have now recovered 🙂
3. Raised Co2 a little until I could see pearling on plants (tanks Tom for the tip I read on another thread somewhere!). As a reference, I raised Co2 to reach 80ml per minute. And I'll keep it that way from now on!
So... this has been my recipe to get rid of BBA after 8 months of struggling!
I think the following points helped a big deal:
1. Excel helped to get rid of everything bad was out right at that moment (BBA)
2. Raising Co2.
3. Getting back into regular fert routine without being afraid of "toxicities". I mean, all my plants got better, Alternathera Reinikii included which was struggling in a long time! In particular I think the increase of micros helped the most.
I hope my experience could be useful for other people. I'll keep watching my tank to see if that damn BBA will ever come back, but so far so good! Thanks again to anyone on this forum for the help given.
Best,Fab.

Hi Fab,
First of all, congrats on the good news. 🙂
Have you been able to find out what exactly triggered the BBA in the first place?
I'm very interested in learning more about your dosing of less fertz and doing PWC every 2 weeks. Sounds sweet🙂
Can you share your doing regium by private msg. I don't want to derail this post about BBA.

Did you manage to get some before and after treatment photos? If so, please share them here.
Thanks

 

[fablau]

Hi Fab,
First of all, congrats on the good news. 🙂
Have you been able to find out what exactly triggered the BBA in the first place?
I'm very interested in learning more about your dosing of less fertz and doing PWC every 2 weeks. Sounds sweet🙂
Can you share your doing regium by private msg. I don't want to derail this post about BBA.

Did you manage to get some before and after treatment photos? If so, please share them here.
Thanks

Thanks! Of course, I can post my dosing regime here since I think it could help other folks to understand what could have actually triggered BBA... At least in my tank. Which I think was both lack of Co2 and micro nutrients.

Before I changed my regime a month ago, I was dosing a pretty light version of EI, just because I thought what I was dosing was enough by measuring No3 and Po4 regularly and performing water change every 2 weeks... But my regime was probably too light:

For my 75gl tank I used to dose the following, in alternating days:

- Macros: No3: 1/4 tsp, Po4: 1/16 tsp, K: 1/16 tsp
- Micros: 20ml of a solution made of 40gr of CSM+B in 1 liter of distiller water plus 1/32 tsp of DTPA Fe.

As you can see, my regime was too light, and some plants were suffering because of that, mostly Althernantera Reinikii and other slow growing plants.

Co2 was pretty high instead, but less of what I am giving now. I was pumping the equivalent of 60ml per minute, but I also tried to pump more up to 90ml per minute, but no avail... I guess because of the lack of micros, my plants couldn't recover, and BBA persisted.

So, 4 weeks ago I changed my regime to the following (basically by doubling all dosing), always with water change every 2 weeks:

- Macros: No3: 2/4 tsp, Po4: 1/8, K: 1/8
- Micros: 40ml of the same solution as above plus the same amount of DTPA (1/32 tsp)

Also, cranked Co2 to 80ml per minute.

These are the changes I have made, and now, after 4 weeks, still no BBA!

Here are some pictures of some of my plants and affected leaves before the cure:









And here are the same plants right now (recovered):












I had BBA mostly on my slow growers. Now it is completely disappeared and not returned ever since.

I hope this can help other people because I have suffered so much without finding a solution for a long time. But as I said, I think the lack of micros was the main cause, in my case. I was too afraid to cause some sort of "toxicity" by adding too many micros, but I was clearly mistaken.

Other actions that could have contributed to the recovery:

1. Cleaning very well all tubings and plumbing fittings.

2. Using some of those pond "sludge removers" regularly every week.This could have helped to reduce organics and help with the eradication of BBA since my tank is over 4 years old.

Thoughts are welcome!

 

[Zak Rafik]

I thought what I was dosing was enough by measuring No3 and Po4 regularly

Yup, I made the same mistake of using those @#$!* test kits a few months back for Po4. The reading was always showing as 5ppm and above but clearly my tank was telling me a different story. GSA took over the tank in a big way. But it was also affecting the plants. Now I just use the method which Clive had told me once and the plants are recovering very well.

For my 75gl tank I used to dose the following, in alternating days:

Good news for me. 🙂My tank is a 80gal. Maybe I can replicate your dosing method to my tank but of course making some adjustments along the way.
May I know what's your lighting like, T5HO or LED and photo period? Thanks.

mostly Althernantera Reinikii

I have this plant in my tank too and your photo of the damaged leaves look exactly like mine.😱

tried to pump more up to 90ml per minute,

How did you manage to measure Co2 in ml?

always with water change every 2 weeks:
- Macros: No3: 2/4 tsp, Po4: 1/8, K: 1/8
- Micros: 40ml of the same solution as above plus the same amount of DTPA (1/32 tsp)

So you're not doing MgSO4 (Magnesium sulfate)?
I guess you're able to do PWC once every 2 week due to your lights and fertilizers. I'm also looking into this. PWC of 50% for a 300 litre tank every week is a chore especially after 1 year of having a heavily planted tank.

1. Cleaning very well all tubings and plumbing fittings.
2. Using some of those pond "sludge removers" regularly every week.This could have helped to reduce organics and help with the eradication of BBA since my tank is over 4 years old.

Might I add this:Change the prefilter and all sponge materials in the filter after taking care of BBA. Just to make sure there are no hidden algae spores hiding inside the filter material.

Yours plants look in tip top condition. I'm happy for you.
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


Google image.

 

[fablau]

Yup, I made the same mistake of using those @#$!* test kits a few months back for Po4. The reading was always showing as 5ppm and above but clearly my tank was telling me a different story. GSA took over the tank in a big way. But it was also affecting the plants. Now I just use the method which Clive had told me once and the plants are recovering very well.

Well, looks like I made the same kind of mistake. Despite I had no GSA, probably I didn't have enough anyway!

Good news for me. 🙂My tank is a 80gal. Maybe I can replicate your dosing method to my tank but of course making some adjustments along the way.
May I know what's your lighting like, T5HO or LED and photo period? Thanks.

Great! Sure, I use 4 T8 lights (around 50 PAR at the substrate), but they don't turn on all at the same time. 3 lights run for 7 hours, whereas the 4th light, on the front, turns on only for 3 and 1/2 hours. Maybe I could turn the 4th light on for the same photoperiod, but since everything is going so well now, I don't want to disrupt anything 🙂

I have this plant in my tank too and your photo of the damaged leaves look exactly like mine.😱

If you are talking about Alternanthera, that's the one that mostly benefited by the increase of micros. Maybe you have the same kind of deficiency?

How did you manage to measure Co2 in ml?

Very simple: you get 2 measured containers, one bigger and one smaller (actually, just the smaller container needs to be measured, in ml). You put water in the bigger container, and then put the smaller one inside the big one, upside down. Then pump Co2 inside that smaller container and measure how much gas you pump by using a stopwatch. That way the water inside the smaller container will get displaced with the Co2, and you'll now exactly how much Co2 you pump into your tank per minute. That's it! Thanks to Tom Barr for this tip 🙂

So you're not doing MgSO4 (Magnesium sulfate)?

No, my water is very hard (KH 7, GH 13), so I guess I have enough of that! I use only tap water, and from my water company reports, I have enough Magnesium.

I guess you're able to do PWC once every 2 week due to your lights and fertilizers. I'm also looking into this. PWC of 50% for a 300 litre tank every week is a chore especially after 1 year of having a heavily planted tank.

Probably... even though at the end of the 2 weeks, my tank looks like a Jungle... but at least gives me half maintenance!

Might I add this:Change the prefilter and all sponge materials in the filter after taking care of BBA. Just to make sure there are no hidden algae spores hiding inside the filter material.
Yours plants look in tip top condition. I'm happy for you.

Good tip. I clean the pre-filter every 2 weeks, but I could actually replace it. Thanks!

 

[Zak Rafik]

Maybe I could turn the 4th light on for the same photoperiod, but since everything is going so well now, I don't want to disrupt anything 🙂

Your plants are doing well and furthermore your have just taken care of BBA. IMO it would best to let your tank stabilize even further before you do any changes.

If you are talking about Alternanthera, that's the one that mostly benefited by the increase of micros. Maybe you have the same kind of deficiency?

Yes, that what I think to. Since my tank is almost heavily planted as yours, maybe the uptake of traces by the plants is more.

Very simple: you get 2 measured containers, one bigger and one smaller (actually, just the smaller container needs to be measured, in ml). You put water in the bigger container, and then put the smaller one inside the big one, upside down. Then pump Co2 inside that smaller container and measure how much gas you pump by using a stopwatch. That way the water inside the smaller container will get displaced with the Co2, and you'll now exactly how much Co2 you pump into your tank per minute. That's it! Thanks to Tom Barr for this tip 🙂

Thanks for tip. Once I've measure the Co2 using the above method, is there a guide on how much ml of Co2 is ideal ( to reach 30 ppm) for a given size of tank?

 

[fablau]

Thanks for tip. Once I've measure the Co2 using the above method, is there a guide on how much ml of Co2 is ideal ( to reach 30 ppm) for a given size of tank?

You are welcome. Unfortunately there isn't a sure way to measure the relationship of amount of Co2 used and amount of Co2, that may vary too much due to degassing, kind of filter, etc. for example, in my case, I have a wet/dry filter and surface agitation, therefore I need probably more Co2 of a tank with a canister filter and less surface agitation. I'd suggest measuring what you are using now, and then possibly increase Co2 slowly watching your fish, and then measure again, and so on...

 

[Zak Rafik]

You are welcome. Unfortunately there isn't a sure way to measure the relationship of amount of Co2 used and amount of Co2, that may vary too much due to degassing, kind of filter, etc. for example, in my case, I have a wet/dry filter and surface agitation, therefore I need probably more Co2 of a tank with a canister filter and less surface agitation. I'd suggest measuring what you are using now, and then possibly increase Co2 slowly watching your fish, and then measure again, and so on...

Fantastic tip.
Thanks.

 

[Jose]

You are welcome. Unfortunately there isn't a sure way to measure the relationship of amount of Co2 used and amount of Co2, that may vary too much due to degassing, kind of filter, etc. for example, in my case, I have a wet/dry filter and surface agitation, therefore I need probably more Co2 of a tank with a canister filter and less surface agitation. I'd suggest measuring what you are using now, and then possibly increase Co2 slowly watching your fish, and then measure again, and so on...

This is why normally people measure pH change which is related to co2 concentration in water. You can also measure pH and KH but KH is quite hard to measure accurately.

In the end there is a lot of evidence that links co2 and BBA in a high tech but still people dont want to assume it for some reason. If youre dosing EI and you get BBA, then look at your co2. Thats the most common cause. But people dont like being told that since co2 is the hardest nutrient to add correctly/control. This has all been said in the first pages of this thread and its also at thebarrreport.com and anywhere where you do a search for BBA+Tom Barr.

 

[Jose]

To Fablau: It seems as if you made the following conclusion (maybe Im wrong): The main thing you did to solve your BBA situation was dosing more micros (this is what I understand from your words)? How can you get to this conclusion if you changed other things in the way (co2 specifically). This is how this debate will keep going and going for a long time. People make wrong conclusions and then others believe them etc. Probably everything that you did helped get rid of BBA, but the main was co2. Actually if you had only chosen to change co2, chances are that youd have had same results.

 

[sciencefiction]

To Fablau: It seems as if you made the following conclusion (maybe Im wrong): The main thing you did to solve your BBA situation was dosing more micros (this is what I understand from your words)? How can you get to this conclusion if you changed other things in the way (co2 specifically). This is how this debate will keep going and going for a long time. People make wrong conclusions and then others believe them etc. Probably everything that you did helped get rid of BBA, but the main was co2. Actually if you had only chosen to change co2, chances are that youd have had same results.

I must agree with Jose here. Too many things were changed at one time to have any conclusions made.
For example my opinion is that all the things you did, co2, micros, sludge removers, cleaning pipes led to a better nitrogenous waste uptake and removal of organics. So here is that for a third opinion 😛

 

[Jose]

There is one way to find out. Keep dosing as you are now and lower your co2 to the levels that were there before. 🙂Something tells me you wont.
By the way I think this experience is more telling for any of us than any study on algae. This doesnt mean we shouldnt read them just that they arent normally specific to our conditions where the main aim is to keep healthy plants. Thanks Fablau for being honest and reporting your results this is what we need IMHO.

 

[sciencefiction]

There is one way to find out. Keep dosing as you are now and lower your co2 to the levels that were there before. 🙂Something tells me you wont.
By the way I think this experience is more telling for any of us than any study on algae. This doesnt mean we shouldnt read them just that they arent normally specific to our conditions where the main aim is to keep healthy plants. Thanks Fablau for being honest and reporting your results this is what we need IMHO.

This is not a good way to find out the truth Jose. It's like taking the drug away from a drug addict. The only way was in due course, do everything else bar increasing the CO2.

I hope Zak will take a step by step approach. Maybe just improve the CO2 without doing anything else.

I've done some changes in my tank. I will report later. I'll take a picture of the exact same BBA infested anubias which I haven't cleaned or cut the leaves of but I've improved the water quality/less organics.

 

[Jose]

This is not a good way to find out the truth Jose. It's like taking the drug away from a drug addict. The only way was in due course, do everything else bar increasing the CO2.

What about decreasing co2 very very slowly? Otherwise unless you have two identical tanks there is no way to find out is there?