What exactly causes BBA?

[Jose]

What would I do?

1) keep any healthy plants in the tank. Buy some more to have a nice ammount of biomass. Clean all bba you can see from tank. This you know.
2) Lots of water changes (2 a week min). Dose ferts right after. Let the water rest to offgas co2 and do the wc at the end of photoperiod. I know people wont agree here, but just try it.
3) Start dosing 1/5th of EI doses. You can go down to 1/10th after sometime. Use dry ferts or whatever you have laying around.
4) Youd probably need to lower light or add some floaters.
5) keep good oxygen. You probably already do.

You can do all this on a tight budget. You dont need co2.
If you are going to use soil do many water changes or youll get algae in the beginning.

 

[OllieNZ]

What I think I should do, is dump all old plants, clean the BBA from everywhere and start with healthy plants and increase the plant mass, also put dirt underneath the sand.
And reduce the stocking which will happen in due time but the plan is to remove two of my tanks and replace with an 8-10footer.
Right now, I am in college for the 2nd time, mature student full time for the last 3 years, money is tight as I am not working so I've got to bear with what I have.
What would you do if this was your tank?

Exactly the above. I know it will be some serious work (been there got the T-Shirt) but bulking it out with some fast growing plants and adding soil will definitely help. I think with the size of the tank and given sufficient plant mass two tubes would be acceptable.



This was single t5 no co2 soil and ferts when I remembered, If I ran 2x t5 plant growth didn't really increase but algae exploded almost instantly.

 

[sciencefiction]

1) keep any healthy plants in the tank. Buy some more to have a nice ammount of biomass. Clean all bba you can see from tank.
2) Lots of water changes (2 a week min). Let the water rest to offgas co2 and do the wc at the end of photoperiod. I know people wont agree here, but just try it.
3) Start dosing 1/5th of EI doses. You can go down to 1/10th after sometime. Use dry ferts or whatever you have laying around.
4) Youd probably need to lower light or add some floaters.
5) keep good oxygen. You probably already do.

Jose, point N 2, 3, 4 have been tried for a period of 1-2 years in the past. Light was lower for years, though I haven't tried it on one T5 only. I've done water changes way more often than just one 50% weekly while I was playing with the tank, especially during the summer period. Dose was full EI of nutrients for a period, treble excel, though I haven't tried without the excel.
Point 1 has been tried numerous times by moving very healthy plants from my other tanks, they just got covered in BBA, withered and died. I just stopped bothering.
Point 5-two large externals blowing at the surface, trickle filter in there too, air stone since last summer maybe. That powerhead has not been on for a very long time though, it's for emergency.

 

[Jose]

Excel can kill many plants too. Have you tried letting the water to offgas co2 before wc?

 

[sciencefiction]

Excel can kill many plants too. Have you tried letting the water to offgas co2 before wc?

No actually. I don't have containers nor space for it. However, why is the CO2 in the water having an impact on just one tank? I do 50% weekly on my other tanks too in exactly the same way, no BBA.
Yes, I may try larger nutrient doses without the excel. I don't think it was helping out. But while I dosed it didn't kill the plants. The algae killed them.

 

[sciencefiction]

If you are going to use soil do many water changes or youll get algae in the beginning.

I've got 2 soil tanks, one is the tank from the videos. I use mineralized soil and no algae whatsoever at any stage. I've done just one weekly water change at the start and after, tank is 3 years old or so.

 

[Jose]

Maybe this tank has more light. Or simply if plants cant start off well algae will get hold. Time is an important variable we normally dont consider. So many things could be different.
Yes you keep comparing tanks. You dont really know half the things going on in there. Maybe youve done 1 wc a week in the beginning and got away with it. It doesnt mean it will work all the time. It also depends on the type of soil, the ammount of it etc. You can open your mind and try new things or just do the same as you do with the other tanks.

 

[sciencefiction]

Maybe this tank has more light. Or simply if plants cant start off well algae will get hold. Time is an important variable we normally dont consider. So many things could be different.

I don't know really. Maybe it does. First thing I ever did was decrease the light as advised on forums although the tank ran just fine for the first year or longer on full blast.

Here is an older video before the algae outbreak. My anubias grew very large and nice.

 

[sciencefiction]

Here is an older video before the algae outbreak. My anubias grew very large and nice.

After that I added the clown loaches, so hence I think it's overstocking mainly.

And don't forget the growing common pleco which was last time I measured 12 inches and he keeps growing. At the time of the above video, he was quite small, though not a baby as I already had him for a while.

 

[OllieNZ]

No actually. I don't have containers nor space for it. However, why is the CO2 in the water having an impact on just one tank? I do 50% weekly on my other tanks too in exactly the same way, no BBA.

I don't bother either, syphon into the back garden and fill up straight from the hose. The theory is that unstable co2 = BBA. I'm not sure I agree with this in a low tech tank mainly due the fact the plants aren't adapted to higher co2 so the fluctuation caused by a water change has nil effect on plant heath. Where as in a high tech the plants adapt to the higher levels co2 and when this is not kept at a stable level they suffer ill health allowing algae to creep in.

I've got 2 soil tanks, one is the tank from the videos. I use mineralized soil and no algae whatsoever at any stage. I've done just one weekly water change at the start and after, tank is 3 years old or so.

I've never mineralised the soil I've used and not had any major algae issues, even used fresh soil while modifying existing scapes without harming fish/shrimp etc..

 

[Andy Thurston]

I've never mineralised the soil I've used and not had any major algae issues, even used fresh soil while modifying existing scapes without harming fish/shrimp etc..

I've done this in a friends hi tech. mixed a bag of ji3 with existing substrate, then scaped the tank and chucked all the fish and shrimp straight back in when we were finished. no deaths whatsoever. we only did 1 x 50% water change weekly too

 

[fablau]

Is the GSA active when the BBA is spreading?

Yes, even though it wasn't much, but still actively regenerating,

You guys discuss too fast here, I can't keep-up! Beautiful tanks though, and very interesting thoughts and facts. Worth reading 🙂

 

[OllieNZ]

Yes, even though it wasn't much, but still actively regenerating,

You guys discuss too fast here, I can't keep-up! Beautiful tanks though, and very interesting thoughts and facts. Worth reading 🙂

Try upping your phosphate dosing a touch, that should take care of the gsa.

 

[sciencefiction]

Yes, even though it wasn't much, but still actively regenerating,

You guys discuss too fast here, I can't keep-up! Beautiful tanks though, and very interesting thoughts and facts. Worth reading 🙂

I suppose we should get back to the topic. How are you getting on with your BBA 🙂

 

[fablau]

Try upping your phosphate dosing a touch, that should take care of the gsa.

Yes, that's exactly what I did and GSA disappeared 🙂

 

[fablau]

I suppose we should get back to the topic. How are you getting on with your BBA 🙂

Sure, here is an update for you:

Things are going better, less BBA around since I made these changes to my setup:

1. Reduced flow by using a different pump, before was using Eheim 3000 (12x turnover) and now using Eheim 2000 (8x turnover)

2. Unsealed my wet/dry filter, so that oxygen is added to water column and degassing is compared to the higher flow given by the Eheim 3000.

3. Removed night aeration via micro pore air stone which degassed completely during night.

I think both too strong flow and too much degassing was cause of BBA. It is still around, but I's say 80% reduced. Maybe it is going to disappear? I will give you an additional update in a couple of weeks.

 

[sciencefiction]

One step at a time and wait 🙂
I would remove as much BBA as possible. Then take a few pictures of the plants that get affected the most. Then compare in two weeks. This way you'll know if it keeps growing or not.

 

[Andy Thurston]

1. Reduced flow by using a different pump, before was using Eheim 3000 (12x turnover) and now using Eheim 2000 (8x turnover)

Clive would say more flow is better, but hey! whatever works best for you

3. Removed night aeration via micro pore air stone which degassed completely during night.

Some people swear by night time aeration when balancing co2 but its never worked for me either

One step at a time and wait 🙂
I would remove as much BBA as possible. Then take a few pictures of the plants that get affected the most. Then compare in two weeks. This way you'll know if it keeps growing or not.

Good advice
You'll also learn what works and what doesn't

 

[sciencefiction]

Here is one more article on BBA, specifically a type(Compsopogon coeruleus) that invades fresh water aquariums. Apparently, it loves the flow as all of us have already noticed.

http://www.academia.edu/10906960/Fi...albis_Montagne_Rhodophyta_in_Flanders_Belgium_

Compsopogon
coeruleus
clearly preferred strong current. The species seemed unable to initiate a successful colonization in slow current or standing-water conditions. It could however endure such conditions for relatively long periods. This preference for stronger currents was confirmed from the other aquaria in Belgium from which it was reported. Therefore, in our opinion, changes in the current velocity could be used for controlling of the growth of this alga and even for its elimination from aquaria. This approach in combination with efficient grazers, such as
Ameca splendens may prove to be quite successful.

Generally,the species was reported to be attached to the surface of the leaves of
Vallisneria spiralis but could also be found on other aquatic macrophytes with strong leaves (e.g. Hydrocotyle spp., Anubias spp.).
Initial colonisation mostly started on the edges of the host leaves andincreased inward onto the leaf surface. In the majority of the cases it developed epiphytically in Amazone aquaria with pH 6-6.5 (relatively rarer 6.5-7.5), at water temperatures from 24-27°C and always preferred hosts exposed to increased water current. This was mostly near the outlet of the filtering apparatus with maximum output between 1892 and 1900 liters per hour. After decreasing the current velocity by more than 60% a degradation of cells and their content was observed

 

[sciencefiction]

And a bit more about this same type of BBA species called Compsopogon coeruleus.
The below is a study on its ability to use organic carbon as a source and according to that study it's quite capable of taking HCO3- directly without the need to convert to CO2, unlike other species of red algae who have a preference for CO2.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j...PsgZAD&usg=AFQjCNGZ8wq6pm7qBToS4bTuLBJ31F32SQ

A few paragraphs of the article.

Results on measurements of environmental variables (Table 1) revealed that C.coeruleus in this study inhabits a clear, nearly neutral, warm and nutrient moderate aquatie environment. These results concur with previous reports on the algae in the genus.
Compsopogon prefers warmer, nearly neutral or more alkaline and slightly pollutant habitat
(Sheath and Hambrook, 1990; Wehr and Sheath, 2003; Liu and Wang, 2004).

These results indicate that C. coeruleus has a higher affinity for an inorganic carbon source ......

In addition, the present study was the first to demonstrate that C. coeruleus can
directly uptake bicarbonate without the aid of extemal CA-mediated conversion of HC03- to
CO2• This more efficient means of HC03 - utilization may be an adaptation for highly-unstable
aquatic environments (Axelsson et al., 1995).