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Thoughts on Blackwater Extract products . . .

Wookii said:
Sorry, my 'peat extract' comment above wasn't a negative one
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No worries mate no offence taken. I think the crux of the thread is doesn't matter which way we get these beneficial substances @Tim Harrison mentions in our tank. Obviously picking leaves is the best option because it's free and you get a nice walk out into the bargain. I just bought some bottled in much the same way tropica will bottle some salts for you 😉
The main reason I bought mine was because I'd travelled 30miles to my nearest ma and they didn't have the fish I wanted so bought it to cheer myself up.
 
Your local cemetery might well have beech/hornbeam hedges. Hornbeam looks like beech but has serrated leaf edges and new leaf buds are flat against the twigs.
Holm Oak Quercus ilex is an evergreen oak which sheds its leaves in april/may, they look like miniature bay leaves, and are a good size for nano tanks. They are more common in south England.
My walk to work took me past all the above and also Lucombe Oaks, Turkey Oak and "normal" oaks so I was always spoilt for choice. (workplace named after William Lucombe, botanist).
Wildlife parks here in Devon have small oaks with leaves bigger than my hand to finger length and very serrated, so it's worth checking different areas and trees.
 
Hi all,
Another Phil said:
Holm Oak Quercus ilex is an evergreen oak which sheds its leaves in april/may, they look like miniature bay leaves, and are a good size for nano tanks. They are more common in south England.
My walk to work took me past all the above and also Lucombe Oaks, Turkey Oak and "normal" oaks so I was always spoilt for choice. (workplace named after William Lucombe, botanist).
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<"Snap">, except <"for the workplace">.

cheers Darrel
 
I've taken a traditional route to obtain tea coloured stained aquarium water by using pieces of mopani wood, an old method but it worked well for me. My local fish shop sells it for £8 a kilo and if you select the wood pieces well it works out as an economical approach, see if you can find some hollowed examples, e.g. big but light saves cash; avoid roots they tend to be heavy.

I checked with a shop assistant and found out most of the mopani wood stays in the store for about 4 years before being sold, meaning it's nice and dry. The bark is sand blasted off and there are dark wood parts on the underside. I make up a bucket of cold de-chlorinated tap water and let the wood soak overnight - it is so dense it does not float. If it floats chances are it isn't mopani.

The pieces vary in how much tannin is leached, one item produced dark red water by the morning, two others a light red. The wood does not need to be boiled - what's the point? Boiling may deteriorate the surface of the wood and it won't make a floating piece of wood sink or drive out tannins. I then scrub the wood with a reserved stiff bristle brush and rinse off with tank water, before arranging in the aquarium. After a few days a very light white fluffy growth may appear, normally in the region of knots - not an issue your fishes will munch it off quickly. It'll be leaching colour for years and does not rot - not in your lifetime anyway when fully submerged, and it's a one off purchase.
 
You'll be surprised where you find stuff, I've did the out in the woods bit foraging for a while then one night, Christmas eve if I remember I'd been to my brothers for some ale and walked home, came across Alder cones on the pavement. Turns out I had one at the end of my road all along. 😀 Same happened with Oak leaves, I was topping up my windscreen wash in my car and found a load in the scuttle panel where the wipers are. Realised there was an Oak tree where I park outside work. Never noticed either of them before. Couldn't see the wood for the trees, pun intended.
 
Wookii said:
Thanks Darrel, I'm going to drag the kids on a woodland walk in search for more roots, so I'll keep an eye out for these too. I might have to lean on you for some leaf ID's if you don't mind.
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I was out this afternoon for a walk and to collect some Alder cones down by the river. As per @dw1305 almost the first tree I saw was a young Oak still covered in tan leaves so I thought I might as well grab some of those too.

The only problem with collecting Alder cones this time of year is the massive clouds of yellow/green pollen released from the catkins when you disturb the tree!

A good haul:

IMG_20210226_172213.jpg
 
Maf 2500 said:
I was out this afternoon for a walk and to collect some Alder cones down by the river. As per @dw1305 almost the first tree I saw was a young Oak still covered in tan leaves so I thought I might as well grab some of those too.

The only problem with collecting Alder cones this time of year is the massive clouds of yellow/green pollen released from the catkins when you disturb the tree!

A good haul:

View attachment 163774
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That’s an awesome haul! Wish me similar luck for this weekend!
 
Tim Harrison said:
They keep micronutrients, such as iron, in solution and available to plants whilst at the same time safeguarding against metal toxicity.
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Would there be any benefit from making up our Trace bottles up from water that's been made out of soaking leaves and cones etc in lieu of pot sorbate and citric acid?
 
The ascorbic acid keeps the chelators stable and the potassium sorbate prevents mould.
Not sure humic substances of unknown quality and quantity would work that well if at all.
 
Tim Harrison said:
The ascorbic acid keeps the chelators stable and the potassium sorbate prevents mould.
Not sure humic substances of unknown quality and quantity would work that well if at all.
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I was just thinking about the anti fungal properties, my traces tend to do that now and again. I've started mixing up batches that are less concentrated so I use them quicker. Apparently the anti fungal properties are good for shrimp molting to prevent infections.
 
Wookii said:
Also, does anyone know if I can add some of the above to a standard EI micro mix for auto-dosing?
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I use the Microbe-Lift BioCO2 in direct replacement for the water in my Macro solution, no issues! It’s a good product, in fact all Microbe-Lift supplements are of very good quality both Marine and Freshwater, Special Blend will blow your nose off when you unscrew the cap, although I use it for Marine only.

AverageWhiteBloke said:
Would there be any benefit from making up our Trace bottles up from water that's been made out of soaking leaves and cones etc in lieu of pot sorbate and citric acid?
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I’ve used JBL pH down which is an Oak leaf extract, works well although the instance I used it was in an effort to resolubilise Zinc Hydroxide precipitates in 10L of Micro (receiving water wasn’t acidified beforehand, oops), which precipitated out eventually as unavailable Zinc Oxide, no other reactions. If I were to have used the extract beforehand the Zinc Hydroxide wouldn’t have formed in the first place, the mix would be good to go!

Ascorbic Acid, Humic Acid, Fulvic Acid and Tannic Acid are all natural biodegradable Chelates, when it comes to molecule size Tannic Acid is a monster, if it scavenges Iron the molecule becomes opaque black (this is what Iron Gall drawing ink is, Iron Tannate), I have no idea about whether a plant can utilise this.

🙂
 
I forgot to say I get Zero mould growth in my BioCO2 Macro mix, I do get it in my Micro but I don’t use the sorbate and keep the main 500ml mix in the fridge and decant it into dosing bags when I need it for the doser.

🙂
 
X3NiTH said:
Ascorbic Acid, Humic Acid, Fulvic Acid and Tannic Acid are all natural biodegradable Chelates, when it comes to molecule size Tannic Acid is a monster, if it scavenges Iron the molecule becomes opaque black (this is what Iron Gall drawing ink is, Iron Tannate), I have no idea about whether a plant can utilise this.
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Does that mean you wouldn’t recommend adding those organic acids to a micro mix?
 
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