Thoughts on Blackwater Extract products . . .

[Wookii]

Does anyone have experience or thoughts on blackwater extract products such as:

Easy Life Catappa-X
Tetra Blackwater Extract /Touramin
Aquadip Liquid Catappa
Dennerle Humin Elixir
Salty Shrimp Leaves and Bark (extract)
GlasGarten Humin+

I do add botanicals (catappa leaves, catappa bark, alder cones), but my tank layout limits how many I can reasonably add, so I was thinking of supplementing with one of the above.

Also, does anyone know if I can add some of the above to a standard EI micro mix for auto-dosing?

 

[ScareCrow]

I can't comment on any of the above but I've heard of people making their own tannin concentrate by boiling down alder, cones leaves etc and then adding it that way. I was going to try rooibos 'red bush' tea in the same way but it was a bit pricey when I can get alder cones and leaves for free.

 

[Wookii]

I can't comment on any of the above but I've heard of people making their own tannin concentrate by boiling down alder, cones leaves etc and then adding it that way. I was going to try rooibos 'red bush' tea in the same way but it was a bit pricey when I can get alder cones and leaves for free.

Yeah, I may try that next year - botanicals a fairly new to me, so I missed the free bounty this Autumn just gone, but will stock up at the end of this year.

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

so I missed the free bounty this Autumn just gone

I would say if you sniffed about under an Alder or Oak tree you would still be able to get some of last years drop albeit a bit damp, maybe you could just dry it out? I've been using Micro-lift Bio Co2 for about 3months now, I'm getting reasonable results although that could be pure coincidence and I could have been taken in by the best snake oil salesman on the planet but my understanding is it contains humic, fulvic acids and tannins which I guess ir what we try and derive from putting the leaves in? Not sure about the co2 element. I'm just adding it on a can't do any harm basis.
The product in the UK seems to have an exclusivity deal with Maidenhead aquatics so it's usually in store or available from them online. Maybe worth a punt? Although it is black it doesn't noticeably stain the water.

 

[Wookii]

I would say if you sniffed about under an Alder or Oak tree you would still be able to get some of last years drop albeit a bit damp, maybe you could just dry it out? I've been using Micro-lift Bio Co2 for about 3months now, I'm getting reasonable results although that could be pure coincidence and

It's difficult to know exactly what's in it - do they have an ingredients list on the rear label?

I could have been taken in by the best snake oil salesman on the planet but my understanding is it contains humic, fulvic acids and tannins which I guess ir what we try and derive from putting the leaves in? Not sure about the co2 element. I'm just adding it on a can't do any harm basis.
The product in the UK seems to have an exclusivity deal with Maidenhead aquatics so it's usually in store or available from them online. Maybe worth a punt? Although it is black it doesn't noticeably stain the water.

To be fair the guy in the video looks like he's selling it direct from a market stall! 😂

 

[Wookii]

To be fair a number of the products I listed in the first post, claim to add the beneficial extracts without any tannins, which make me questions whether the stuff has been extracted directly from botanicals in the way one would hope, or if instead they've just mixed some humic and fluvic acid with water.

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

It's difficult to know exactly what's in it - do they have an ingredients list on the rear label?

It doesn't mate, just looking at it now. Mainly says what I've already posted other than "contains microbial carbon, friendly bacteria" as well the the fulvic and humic stuff, 100% natural in big letters and the usual one size fits all "prevents algae"

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

To be fair the guy in the video looks like he's selling it direct from a market stall!

he's good at his job mate if he's blagged his way into MA

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

They appear to be quite a large company over in the US with labs dealing with numerous products. There's a bit more info on their site but not a great deal more. Maybe worth emailing them and asking what exactly is in the bottle? Bio-Carbon | Microbe-Lift

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

A breakthrough in carbon source technology that provides cutting edge developments in micro-biology and biophysics!

• Contains high quality peat extract
• Contains humic and fulvic acids
• Contains a blend of naturally occurring vegetative and spore-forming microorganisms
• Helps make iron, nitrogen and other nutrients more bioavailable

MICROBE-LIFT/BLOOM & GROW Bio-Carbon contains combinations of naturally occurring microorganisms that share key traits for plant enhancement. The photosynthetic organisms will inhabit the root and vascular systems of the plant helping to modify, retain and transport nutrients. Humic is the end product of organic matter decomposition. Organic matter has a high carbon content. When plants are removed from the environment where they are grown, natural balances are destroyed and growth may be disrupted. It is a good practice to restore the plants natural balances with MICROBE-LIFT/BLOOM & GROW Bio-Carbon. Dosing with MICROBE-LIFT/BLOOM & GROW Bio-Carbon is the most convenient and effective method of restoring these balances. MICROBE-LIFT/BLOOM & GROW Bio-Carbon will enhance nutrient availability, enhance substrate and contributes to enhanced microbial activity and the overall biochemical processes.

There's a safety Data sheet on there but doesn't tell you much.

 

[Wookii]

A breakthrough in carbon source technology that provides cutting edge developments in micro-biology and biophysics!

• Contains high quality peat extract
• Contains humic and fulvic acids
• Contains a blend of naturally occurring vegetative and spore-forming microorganisms
• Helps make iron, nitrogen and other nutrients more bioavailable

MICROBE-LIFT/BLOOM & GROW Bio-Carbon contains combinations of naturally occurring microorganisms that share key traits for plant enhancement. The photosynthetic organisms will inhabit the root and vascular systems of the plant helping to modify, retain and transport nutrients. Humic is the end product of organic matter decomposition. Organic matter has a high carbon content. When plants are removed from the environment where they are grown, natural balances are destroyed and growth may be disrupted. It is a good practice to restore the plants natural balances with MICROBE-LIFT/BLOOM & GROW Bio-Carbon. Dosing with MICROBE-LIFT/BLOOM & GROW Bio-Carbon is the most convenient and effective method of restoring these balances. MICROBE-LIFT/BLOOM & GROW Bio-Carbon will enhance nutrient availability, enhance substrate and contributes to enhanced microbial activity and the overall biochemical processes.

There's a safety Data sheet on there but doesn't tell you much.

OK great, so its pretty much just peat extract then I assume.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

botanicals a fairly new to me, so I missed the free bounty this Autumn just gone

I would say if you sniffed about under an Alder or Oak tree you would still be able to get some of last years drop albeit a bit damp, maybe you could just dry it out?

You should still be able to pyo Alder cones, Oak, Hornbeam and Beech leaves. Small Oak trees and Beech (or Hornbeam) hedges retain their leaves until the spring.

If you find a hedge with brown leaves it will be one or the other.



cheers Darrel

 

[Nick potts]

I have a bottle of the Aquadip Liquid Catappa, bought and used it once.

Did it do anything? I have no idea and I expect that is going to be the same with any of these products.

 

[Wookii]

Hi all,


You should still be able to pyo Alder cones, Oak, Hornbeam and Beech leaves. Small Oak trees and Beech (or Hornbeam) hedges retain their leaves until the spring.

If you find a hedge with brown leaves it will be one or the other.



cheers Darrel

Thanks Darrel, I'm going to drag the kids on a woodland walk in search for more roots, so I'll keep an eye out for these too. I might have to lean on you for some leaf ID's if you don't mind.

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

I've always been of the impression that peat extracts etc and all these type of products have a mild sterilizing effect to help with fish health although that could be the snake oil people working their charm.
Walsted has quite an extensive bit about it in her book.
I guess what's in the bottle is pretty similar to what we get out the leaves would be my guess.
I still have a couple of cones and oak leaves in the tank for shrimp graze on but ultimately adding leaves will result in more bi product waste.
I went through a phase of pouring boiling water over them then leaving them soaking in a 8 ltr bottle for a few weeks then netting off the leaves and only adding the stained liquid but this stuff was 15 quid a bottle and lasts nearly two years in my tank at the right dosage so hey ho. Worth try.

 

[Wookii]

I've always been of the impression that peat extracts etc and all these type of products have a mild sterilizing effect to help with fish health although that could be the snake oil people working their charm.
Walsted has quite an extensive bit about it in her book.
I guess what's in the bottle is pretty similar to what we get out the leaves would be my guess.
I still have a couple of cones and oak leaves in the tank for shrimp graze on but ultimately adding leaves will result in more bi product waste.
I went through a phase of pouring boiling water over them then leaving them soaking in a 8 ltr bottle for a few weeks then netting off the leaves and only adding the stained liquid but this stuff was 15 quid a bottle and lasts nearly two years in my tank at the right dosage so hey ho. Worth try.

Sorry, my 'peat extract' comment above wasn't a negative one (other than perhaps on their marketing spin on the product), I'm in agreement, my limited understanding is that peat extracts are much the same as extracts from botanicals (like catappa leaves etc), its the humic and fluvic acids, flavonoids and tannins. I have a small bag of peat granules in my tank currently as an experiment for that very reason. Their health benefits are fairly well documented, which is why I'm adding them for the benefit of my in tank fauna which are technically all blackwater fish, and also as a side benefit to counter the ever rising KH in my tank from the Sieryu stone.

 

[mort]

The alder trees around here keep some of their old cones on the tree all year round, so you should be able to at least find a few if you have alder nearbye.

You can make these extracts from boiling up a load of botanical in a pot and using the liqueur but they tend to be full of tannins and make the water very tinted.

 

[Guest]

I'd just put some moss peat in a filter bag and place it in a filter chamber. It'll add humic substances, tannins and dissolved organic carbon. Humic substances have all sorts of benefits. They keep micronutrients, such as iron, in solution and available to plants whilst at the same time safeguarding against metal toxicity. They are also beneficial for the reproductive health of fish, and can even prevent algal growth and kill harmful microorganisms. And are a source of carbon for plant uptake.

 

[Wookii]

I'd just put some moss peat in a filter bag and place it in a filter chamber. It'll add humic substances, tannins and dissolved organic carbon. Humic substances have all sorts of benefits. They keep micronutrients, such as iron, in solution and available to plants whilst at the same time safeguarding against metal toxicity. They are also beneficial for the reproductive health of fish, and can even prevent algal growth and kill harmful microorganisms. And are a source of carbon for plant uptake.

Thanks Tim. Any particular type/brand, or will any gardening/potting variant be fine?

I have some of the Eheim peat pellets currently - but I’m assuming you are suggesting much more commonly available (and cheaper) stuff?

 

[Guest]

Any type of moss peat will do so long as it doesn't have additives. I've always used Irish moss peat. I've still got a big bag of Westlands which I bought several years ago and will last me a lifetime. Works well and turns the water the colour of tea, the more you use the darker the tint.

It's very unfashionable to use peat these days for environmental reasons, and I definitely wouldn't use it for potting on, or gardening, the quantities involved are definitely unsustainable. Either way, it's definitely a lot cheaper and so long as you source a more sustainable product I don't really see an issue with using it for filtration, the quantities involved are relatively minute.