Thoughts on Blackwater Extract products . . .

[X3NiTH]

No the opposite, I would recommend!
I would be wary of high Tannic Acid concentration though in case it causes Iron issues (a forum member has seen Iron Tannate formation dosing Iron to a black water tank). I’ve not delved fully into whether Iron Tannate can be uptaken through the roots but it can certainly be transported through plant tissues which is easily evidenced by turning Dandelions Black by cutting them and letting them sit in a glass of Iron Gall ink!

I prefer to put my Ascorbic, Humic and Fulvic Acids in the Macro (If not making all in one) just so I can monitor for issues in the Micro, periodically I will remove fungal growth from the dosing bag when I see it just so it doesn’t plug the dosing lines.

🙂

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

I use the Microbe-Lift BioCO2 i

Do you use it at its recommended dose? It does say for high plant mass you can up the dose but considering there isn't much of a carbon effect there seems little point.

 

[X3NiTH]

No much higher!

Ignoring the initial dose I do 1ml/10L 3x a week, my water remin TDS is about 220, the water is currently sitting at 297 and I haven’t performed a water change in months, only evap top ups. I suppose a picture paints a thousand words so here -



The plants are not without issue, they are Nitrate and Phosphate limited because I lean (lazy) dose these, things are more improved more recently by adding more of these to the BioCO2 mix instead of front loading them all which is what I was doing, good for weekly water changes but not good if you extend the water change period or discount it entirely, there are no fish in this tank so nothing other than pond snails to provide the N.

The CO2 component of the BioCO2 is entirely up to the plant to make it itself by using the bioavailable carbon in the Humic molecule, if it just so happens to chelate an element the plant also requires then all the better for the plant.

🙂

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

Interesting stuff!

 

[X3NiTH]

I should also say that the tank is light limited!



🙂

 

[Another Phil]

I’m hoping these are mostly oak leaves:

View attachment 163832

No alders, but this woodland is on the top of a hill, so hopefully the next trip to the river will result in some cones.

Mostly oak, maybe ivy twig and leaf lower LHS (i have a note saying not to use ivy as it's poisonous). Spider egg-sac top centre. The black dots are mildew/mould - prob ok, @dw1305 might have thoughts.

Your post #35 roots; looks like oak, photo of twigs would confirm. The only hardwoods I've read not to use (UK trees, rather than imports) are Horse Chestnut aesculus hippocastanum and Walnut Juglans sp.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Yes, Beech (Fagus sylvatica) leaves. Tree roots are fine, look likely to be Oak (Quercus sp.), might be Ash (Fraxinus excelsior) the Oak leaves look like Oak leaves, you've got plenty, so just don't use any that look different.

cheers Darrel

 

[Wookii]

I assume this is an Alder:

 

[Another Phil]

Hi Wookii, yes, Alder. You'll see them everywhere now you have your eye in, lots of imported species used for landscaping, with variable cone sizes.
Wood is long lasting in tanks as well.

 

[Wookii]

Hi Wookii, yes, Alder. You'll see them everywhere now you have your eye in, lots of imported species used for landscaping, with variable cone sizes.
Wood is long lasting in tanks as well.

Thanks Phil - only managed to find the one tree with cones on the entire walk. There were several with catkins, but no cones.

The cones I’ve collected look quiet different to ones I’ve bought previously - much skinnier and less dense. I assume a different species, unless they change form through the year?

 

[Another Phil]

Thanks Phil - only managed to find the one tree with cones on the entire walk. There were several with catkins, but no cones.

The cones I’ve collected look quiet different to ones I’ve bought previously - much skinnier and less dense. I assume a different species, unless they change form through the year?

Native tree cones are generally smaller and naturalised/imports are often larger. Stone Lane Gardens are about 15 miles from me and have 34 species. The attached out of my bag measure from 12-28 mm.

Fun fact - a lot of Venice is built on alder logs.

edit hazel and birch also have catkins, so you might have seen different trees.

 

[Wookii]

Native tree cones are generally smaller and naturalised/imports are often larger. Stone Lane Gardens are about 15 miles from me and have 34 species. The attached out of my bag measure from 12-28 mm.

Fun fact - a lot of Venice is built on alder logs.

edit hazel and birch also have catkins, so you might have seen different trees.

Thanks Phil. Yes, I'm somewhat embarrassed by my complete lack of tree identification skills. Even using the Woodland Trust ID app you link to didn't seem like a sure thing lol

 

[Wookii]

No the opposite, I would recommend!
I would be wary of high Tannic Acid concentration though in case it causes Iron issues (a forum member has seen Iron Tannate formation dosing Iron to a black water tank). I’ve not delved fully into whether Iron Tannate can be uptaken through the roots but it can certainly be transported through plant tissues which is easily evidenced by turning Dandelions Black by cutting them and letting them sit in a glass of Iron Gall ink!

I prefer to put my Ascorbic, Humic and Fulvic Acids in the Macro (If not making all in one) just so I can monitor for issues in the Micro, periodically I will remove fungal growth from the dosing bag when I see it just so it doesn’t plug the dosing lines.

🙂

In the end I couldn't get to an MA to get some of the Microbe-Lift BioCO2, so I substituted for some of the EasyLife Catappa-X and put 500ml in my new 2500ml micro mix with RO water, so I'll essentially be dosing 4ml a day for the Catappa-X (25% daily water changes). That's a little more (once accounted for the daily water changes) than the 10ml weekly suggested on the bottle, but I'm assuming you can't really overdose this stuff given the concentration seen in blackwater tanks, or indeed in blackwater habitats.

The Catappa-X only had a very slight brown tint to it, so I'm assuming the tannic acids weren't very high, so hopefully that won't be an issue with the iron in the micro mix.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

There's not much information about rooibos in aquariums online other than anecdotal reports and there seems to be a fair amount of skepticism about its utility but I can't attribute this sudden improvement to anything apart from the rooibos.

There is a Plec breeder (and Altum Angel Keeper) on Planet Catfish who uses Rooibos. Have a look at <"Orange Peel....."> and <"Making Blackwater....">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Wookii]

I noticed a really significant improvement in Bolbitis, two forms of java fern, and Cryptocoryne parva when I started adding rooibos tea to my low tech tank and it also seemed to help with algae. Not only are the plants growing faster but they are much healthier and producing larger leaves too. The plant that seemed to benefit the most was jave fern 'mini needle' that was essentially only clinging to life in the tank and barely growing new leaves faster than old ones decayed - it exploded when I started adding rooibos. There's not much information about rooibos in aquariums online other than anecdotal reports and there seems to be a fair amount of skepticism about its utility but I can't attribute this sudden improvement to anything apart from the rooibos.
I'm making my own blackwater extract with alder cones now but I still add a rooibos teabag too. Prior to this I was just dumping a cup of rooibos in about once a week, the tint never seemed to last much longer than that.

Hi all,

There is a Plec breeder (and Altum Angel Keeper) on Planet Catfish who uses Rooibos. Have a look at <"Orange Peel....."> and <"Making Blackwater....">.

cheers Darrel

I assume the Rooibos contains things that aren't in standard botanicals (alder cones, catappa etc) then?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I assume the Rooibos contains things that aren't in standard botanicals

<"Different things">.

Chemical composition
As a fresh leaf, rooibos contains a high content of ascorbic acid (vitamin C),[5] which is lost when made into tea.

Rooibos tea does not contain caffeine[6][7] and has low tannin levels compared to black tea or green tea.[5] Rooibos contains polyphenols, including flavanols, flavones, flavanones, dihydrochalcones,[8][9] aspalathin[10] and nothofagin.[11]

The processed leaves and stems contain benzoic and cinnamic acids.[12]

Personally I haven't tried Rooibos (or ordinary tea bags), mainly because I have an <"easy to access"> supply of structural leaf litter etc. I'll add in @Lindy, but I'm not sure she visits the forum at the moment.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

There's a couple of alder cones in the tank for shrimp to graze on but maybe it would be better to add sufficient alder cones and rooibos to the tank directly in order to achieve the desired tint/results?

That is what a lot of Apistogramma keepers do. Have a look at this thread <"Apistogramma Forums: Current State of my ........">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Wookii]

I think in an ideal world you'd use as diverse an array of ingredients in your blackwater as circumstances allow. I've not noticed any difference since I started using alder cones as well as rooibos but I only began doing so last week when I found an alder tree. Purely based on how effective the rooibos on it's own was I'm pretty keen to get ahold of some other stems, bark, seed pods etc. to enrich the mix. I've boiled Savu pods from Cariniana legalis prior to adding them to my vivarium and they released more tannins even than alder cones.
Right now I have an empty water bottle that's filled 1/3 with alder cones and a rooibos teabag and it's turned the colour of black coffee. I wonder about the value of 'fresh' blackwater compared to something like this though. There's a couple of alder cones in the tank for shrimp to graze on but maybe it would be better to add sufficient alder cones and rooibos to the tank directly in order to achieve the desired tint/results? I can also see how the opposite might be true though.
Seems like there's quite a lot to learn.

Do you not just add your rooibos teabag direct to your tank then Louis? I have some botanicals (alder cones, catappa leaves, and bark) that I add to my tank, but I only have limited space to add them currently.

Something else that makes me wish I had a sump filter - I know I could add these to a canister filter, but I don't like to have to open those more than every 3 months!

EDIT: Any recommendation on brand that know works well?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I assume a different species, unless they change form through the year?

and naturalised/imports are often larger.

I think that one looks like Alnus cordata.

I suppose a picture paints a thousand words

The Bucephalandra are lovely, but I really like your rounded (granite?) pebbles.

cheers Darrel

 

[timdjones10]

I make my own by boiling up a load of alder cones, letting it cool and adding however much required for the tint level you want, can keep it stored for months afterwards as well