No idea what to do - poor plant health and algae

[greenbliss]

The tank definitely is getting better... I'm really considering going high tech as it can be so rewarding and can allow you to grow a more diverse range of plants. Sure it takes more input but I have had smaller high tech tanks in the past and it was definitely something I enjoyed. I wouldn't have considered it in the past as I knew it would have ended up being an algae filled mess with how this tank was doing.

 

[greenbliss]

Hi everyone. The tank continues to improve but I'll be honest I'm deadly afraid of it all crashing back down. Not sure why it's just worrying me a bit that it might all suddenly go back to how it was. I will send pictures soon.

I was also considering maybe running the tank at a lower TDS. Currently the "normal" TDS reading is about 250 a few days after a water change and fertiliser dosing. I'd maybe want to lower this so that the Laetacara etc colour up a bit more and maybe start spawning (but that might not be a good idea in a community aquarium). Would maybe bumping say.. Just the GH down to around 2 or 3 hurt much if I did it gradually? Although I'll probably leave it for now but I just want to entertain that thought. Everything is healthy (I assume) so I guess I don't have any reason to change it. I do sometimes wonder if being kept in harder water is detrimental to my fish since they come from softer waters, but I'm sure experienced fish keepers who have kept such fish in tap water previously might be able to comment. I know for the most part people say it doesn't matter and I understand that just because an organism adapted to a certain environment, doesn't mean it is the ideal environment or the one it thrives in, but I am sometimes a bit concerned as other than looking at the fish we can't really quantify in any other way whether they are "suriving" or "thriving". At least I don't think so. I know that all we can do is imitate what others say works and try our best, and I guess this approach does work out in the end for many people. So maybe I answered my own question... Or we just won't know unless fish learn to speak. Sorry if this came across as quite hard to follow and confusing. I'll explain further what I'm asking if I wasn't clear.

Also having had this success I definitely feel a bit more confident in keeping fish, I want to set up another tank (60x30cm) for jungle (peat) swamp Cryptocoryne sp. and Parosphromenus. Journal coming soon.

 

[greenbliss]

It's quite amazing the results I'm getting following the principles decided on by people on this forum. This place in ways is more open minded and way more helpful than many other aquarium groups I have been in. Being told I should be testing my water and that this is the reason why my plants are dying or that I should be using some snake oil product to suddenly having amazingly healthy plants wasn't very encouraging. Meanwhile all it took was taking a step back, looking at the bigger picture and a little hard work.
I much prefer posting here than being hung, drawn and quartered for saying I don't use test kits, or that I think looking at the plants is a valid way to determine they are healthy. Why do those two things have to be such controversial opinions? I honestly don't get where these people are even coming from sometimes. Facebook groups etc with people who are real biologists etc are 100x more humble and respectful. No one speaks down to you and they explain things to you calmly and even will agree with you if you are right rather than try to come out on top like it's some game. A game where you win by responding as fast as possible and coming up with something that sounds true and makes you seem smarter than the other person.

 

[Karmicnull]

You may have stumbled upon the reason we all hang out here...

 

[MichaelJ]

A game where you win by responding as fast as possible and coming up with something that sounds true and makes you seem smarter than the other person.

That sounds like Jeopardy to me! ... You don't like Jeopardy?!

Joking aside...

Hi @greenbliss its always so rewarding to see a tank stepping back from the abyss - Great Job! Keep it up and keep us posted!

Cheers,
Michael

 

[greenbliss]

I really am struggling with the Frogbit still.. I put the last one that was barely hanging on in a bowl with some water and miracle gro, then placed that under a single T5 bulb and it is growing and looks perfectly healthy. Yet in the aquarium it just doesn't grow roots or leaves, turns brittle and slowly melts away and dies.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I put the last one that was barely hanging on in a bowl with some water and miracle gro, then placed that under a single T5 bulb and it is growing and looks perfectly healthy. Yet in the aquarium it just doesn't grow roots or leaves, turns brittle and slowly melts away and dies.

It is nutrient issue in the tank. The difficulty is finding which nutrient.

Years ago I had this, before I really understood much about nutrient deficiencies, one tank where the Frogbit never grew, everything else was fine, just the Frogbit. I always thought it was light or condensation etc,, but eventually I found it was lack of plant available iron (Fe).

Now I would recognise <"iron deficiency in Frogbit">, because <"I've seen it a lot and it is easy to diagnose">, other deficiencies are more difficult.

cheers Darrel

 

[greenbliss]

Hi all,

It is nutrient issue in the tank. The difficulty is finding which nutrient.

Years ago I had this, before I really understood much about nutrient deficiencies, one tank where the Frogbit never grew, everything else was fine, just the Frogbit. I always thought it was light or condensation etc,, but eventually I found it was lack of plant available iron (Fe).

Now I would recognise <"iron deficiency in Frogbit">, because <"I've seen it a lot and it is easy to diagnose">, other deficiencies are more difficult.

cheers Darrel

Would it be worth trying to use some different chelating agent? Maybe EDDHA? I know my PH is around 7.6 so not so ideal as far as availability of iron goes IIRC. I think I've previously seen a thread about dosing EDDHA on this forum and know that you can go off of the tint it gives to the water.

I can definitely see that it would be an iron problem now. My H. polysperma definitely looks like it might be iron deficient, and the water sprite does look a bit pale/white. All the plants with extensive root systems (Echinodorus, Cryptocoryne etc..) look fine. For now I might try just dosing more often and not doing it on the same day as NPK but any other suggestions are welcome too.

 

[G H Nelson]

Hi
Remove any dying leaves/discoloured/damaged....as theses are adding pollutants into the water column!
Also the plants are using a lot of wasted energy trying to repair those leaves.
You can prune back Java fern hard as it will eventually re-cover in time!
If the Frogbit are suffering its usually down to Low Nitrate!
hoggie

 

[Konsa]

I really am struggling with the Frogbit still.. I put the last one that was barely hanging on in a bowl with some water and miracle gro, then placed that under a single T5 bulb and it is growing and looks perfectly healthy. Yet in the aquarium it just doesn't grow roots or leaves, turns brittle and slowly melts away and dies.

Hi
I see that you have nearly full spray bar at the back.Most floating plants don't like being mangled about in high flow.Is your flow pushing them under water or you have calm spots they can settle in.I use fishing line tied to two small
airline suckers just below water level to section my Floaters in calm areas so they don't get bashed too much.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards Konstantin

 

[greenbliss]

Hi everyone
Thanks for the suggestions. I really do want to prune the dead leaves myself but with some of the plants I am waiting until they establish at least SOME healthy leaves before doing that. I probably will however prune the sword today. The Java fern I'm a bit hesitant about pruning as although there is maybe a couple unhealthy/algae covered leaves the plant does provide quite a bit of shade and soaks up quite a bit of photons.

 

[hypnogogia]

You’re more likely to get healthy new leaves if you take the damaged leaves off, as the plant is otherwise wasting energy on trying to fix the damaged leaves.

 

[greenbliss]

Hi all
Just a little update on the tank. Today I did a bit of trimming (didn't trim everything, I will trim more aggressively once the floaters take over). I mainly trimmed the Java fern, Crypts and also the Amazon sword. I took off any really unhealthy or actively melting leaves. For now I left the heavily algae covered Anubias as at least it is soaking up some photons and providing shade, so I am not too bothered for now until the rest of the plants grow in. The Hygrophila and Water Sprite are looking pretty healthy, and the rescued Frogbit I introduced isn't looking so bad around 2 days in. I did add some more Frogbit today and hope it will quickly take the tank over (keeping some spare in a bowl just as a backup).

Also can anyone suggest a moss that won't spread itself all over my tank and find it's way into every corner of the tank? The Java moss has literally wrapped itself around every single Cryptocoryne plant in the aquarium and I need to constantly pull it out and put it back in a clump and either way it ends up all over the aquarium within a few days. I also absolutely hate how the Java moss looks in this aquarium as it literally just floats around and refuses to attach itself to any hardscape, even when I tied it on with string. The growth isn't very compact either and it grows very stringy and long strands which just add to the scraggly look.

One more change I made to the aquarium was just to use the normal outlet pipe rather than the spray bar so that the floating plants don't get absolutely battered by the flow 24/7. I worry this might be too little flow but it is a low tech tank so we will see.

In terms of future plans for the tank I am considering making this a Cryptocoryne only tank with all the common and hardwater species. Could certainly keep some interesting Cryptocoryne from limestone area in such a simple aquarium, as well as try my hand at actually aquascaping rather than struggling to grow basic plants (it doesn't seem like I'll be struggling much longer at this point).

Pictures are attached bellow

 

[PARAGUAY]

Java Moss needs to be trimmed regularly as many similar ones. Otherwise it will spread untidly but ideal for small fish and fry

 

[greenbliss]

Hi all
I am wondering if removing the spray bar flow and simply just using the standard output pipe might be hurting the tank? I did this because I switched back to the 10w LED light bar which isn't dimmable and I'm experiencing a bit of stunting (the 60cm Aquasky is going to be needed for another aquarium). So I wanted the floaters to take over and obviously the spray bar would be battering them 24/7, snapping their roots. For example one of the sword leaves grew to half the size of the previous leaves but it has no obvious signs of deficiency? Will this fix itself once the floaters take over and dim the tank a little or is it just a flow issue? I've been planning to buy some more big Cryptocoryne species (Crispatula, Usteriana, Hudoroi etc) to help shade the tank out as these plants could tolerate the spray bar flow without any problems and would provide a LOT of shade once they start growing.
BUT
I would need to increase KH and GH for these plants. Would this hurt the tank if I did it incrementally? Or will it not change anything? My main concern is the fish, not the plants. I do actually have C. Balansae which should be huge in there but it honestly looks extremely sad and is maybe 7cm tall. Not very good. Vallisneria doesn't do too well either.

 

[hypnogogia]

I would need to increase KH and GH for these plants.

Why? They’re actually very adaptable plants.

 

[greenbliss]

Why? They’re actually very adaptable plants.

I don't really think my C. crispatula is only doing bad because of overlighting and poor care in the past. There are definitely some Crypt species which require harder water than most. They do come from limestone areas in the wild after all. Maybe not so much the Usteriana which is growing fine for me but I have certainly never heard of anyone ever growing any C. crispatula variety or C. aponogetifolia in softer water. When I had C. crispatula in tapwater it was very weedy compared to most other Crypt species. Now it hasn't grown in months.

In terms of what I have right now it's 1KH and around 5GH.

I do also really want to slowly turn the tank into a Cryptocoryne only tank for all the common species, which mostly prefer neutral or harder water. That's another reason I want to bump it up. It would be awesome to get aponogetifolia etc to flower (they will 100% do this in aquariums).

 

[bazz]

I have certainly never heard of anyone ever growing any C. crispatula variety or C. aponogetifolia in softer water.

In terms of what I have right now it's 1KH and around 5GH.

My water is 5dGH and 1dKH and C. Crispatula var Balansae grows up 53cm (including substrate) and all the way across a 90cm tank, as soon as I can source a couple of C. Spiralis/Retrospiralis plants to replace them they are coming out because I'm fed up with their unruly behavior.
Cheers!

 

[greenbliss]

My water is 5dGH and 1dKH and C. Crispatula var Balansae grows up 53cm (including substrate) and all the way across a 90cm tank, as soon as I can source a couple of C. Spiralis/Retrospiralis plants to replace them they are coming out because I'm fed up with their unruly behavior.
Cheers!

Good to know, I'll just focus on the fundamentals then (lighting, flow, fertilisation). I ordered some Fe EDDHA today which i'll try out and see if it helps the plants improve. The plants don't exactly look like they have a full blown iron deficiency but some certainly do look somewhat chlorotic and this does worry me.

 

[John q]

Hiya @greenbliss

I have certainly never heard of anyone ever growing any C. crispatula variety or C. aponogetifolia in softer water.

Vallisneria doesn't do too well either.

I have very soft water 1kh 2~3 gh and have several different cryptocoryne sp that all grow well, including cryptocoryne crispatula.
I also have Vallisneria spiralis tiger in the tank that is basically taking over and needs to be removed on a weekly basis.

For most plants, certainly plants on the easy list ignore what people tell you about needing hard or soft water... its a myth. 🤥