They seem to take about 3 months of doing nothing and then take off big time. I know most people say Crypts don't need much light, but I've always found once growing they prefer a half decent amount (not too much) along with the odd root tab or two.
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No idea what to do - poor plant health and algae
- Thread starter greenbliss
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greenbliss
Member
I know it's a myth for 99 percent of plants as far as general cultivation goes, I just had not heard of anyone growing such species in these conditions yet. But now I have so it's ok.
Tbh, I wasn't even really thinking about things I have read in the past. I have seen reports of water values in limestone areas in the wild where these plants were found and the water certainly did not even get close to hardness levels found in a lot of UK tap waters. I guess my C. Balansae just needs longer to recover from the awful conditions I had previously. I also have a few spares growing emersed which have refused to convert to an emersed state due to high humidity so I could put them in the tank and see how they do (they are very established, healthy plants with huge root systems).
Mine did too. The spread so quickly I had to thin them out about every two months.
greenbliss
Member
I was just planting the C. balansae I had emersed in my aquarium and once I removed the plant from the pot and washed off the soil there was this layer of what looked like rust on the upper 3 inches of the roots? Anyone able to chime in what this possibly might be? Some type of bacteria that helps make iron available to the plant maybe?
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plantnoobdude
Member
sediment stuck to the fine root hair cells, or diatom algae,
greenbliss
Member
Hi all
I'm encountering some very confusing issues with plant healthy currently. Some of the floating sp are doing fairly well, with maybe some slight stunting present (both Ceratopteris sp.), meanwhile others are refusing to grow (Frogbit). As far as submerged plants go, there is also weird things going on. Plants such as the Cryptocoryne sp. are either not growing at all (Usteriana, Balansae) or have slightly deformed and misshapen leaves which appear to also be somewhat stunted (xwillisii). The Amazon sword also has stunted new leaves but they do look mostly healthy other than being a bit pale. The Hygrophila polysperma which are floating at the surface along with the Ceratopteris are in active growth, but new growth is slightly pale and the old leaves don't hang around too long and tend to melt away after a while, but not so much on the Ceratopteris ( Hygrophila might still be converting and stressed?). Vallisneria growth is also really slow and I'm not really sure why. The Anubias and Java fern also have their own unique issues. For example, the Java fern has leaves that are a really weird shape and look NOTHING like Java fern leaves. The Anubias is growing leaves which once they are fully grown are literally just the bottom 1/4 of the leaf along with the petiole, with the rest of the leaf either looking like it has been eaten or rotted away? The Sagittaria and Helanthium are both absolutely hopeless and just not growing at all. In fact the whole plant of the Helanthium seem to have rotted from the meristem outwards which just seems extremely unusual to me. The dwarf Sagittaria is just hanging on, but not really doing anything. The old leaves on the Sagittaria are melting slightly but it doesn't look totally hopeless.
So this is my opinion on what is going on:
Now I have recently changed the flow setup to accommodate the floating plants, but all the plants still seem to rock gently in the flow no matter where they are so that doesn't seem to be a huge problem, especially since it is low tech. I have also changed lighting units to the default 10w light bar but as the Ceratopteris is shading out a decent portion of the tank and will continue to grow and shade out more of the tank as time goes on, I don't think overlighting would be an issue for much longer, assuming that it is causing these issues. I have been dosing the same DIY fertiliser mix recently but just the past few days I've been using a new dosing schedule. I still dose around 1/3 to 1/2 EI but spread out over the week, and alternate macro/micro to ensure a constant steady flow of nutrients, and to hopefully keep the nutrient levels lower overall which would possibly be better for the fish. I have also reduced micronutrient dosing slightly because I was worried high iron levels might be interfering with the ability of the plant to take up calcium (I have had this issue before and it went away permanently after I did a series of large water changes and drastically reduced micronutrient dosing). I have also increased NPK dosage by 50 percent, from 10ppm NO3 to 15ppm NO3 per week. Based on the changes I have made over the last few weeks, I am thinking I may be hypnotised by nutrients slightly and that it might actually be that I have CO2 issues again? But then it is mostly the slower growing plants showing these weird issues, so maybe the issue has been already resolved and there is simply a lag period before I see healthy growth again, as the misshapen/stunted leaves started appearing few weeks back I think?
I definitely want to keep in mind I could be totally wrong with these assumptions as after all I am the person with unhealthy plants in the end. There is so many different symptoms being shown by different plant sp that I am a bit lost myself.
Either way , I can't thank everyone who has gave me advice so far any more. The tank is doing so much better despite some issues still being present, and this is definitely due to the advice on this forum. I don't think any advice I have ever been given by an LFS (well obviously an LFS wouldn't really necessarily want you to have success, but I guess it depends on the people who run it), or by another forum or even read in a fishkeeping magazine has ever come close to being as helpful as the advice on UKAPS. I really thank you all for sacrificing your free time just to help out a stranger on the internet.
The C. beckettii var petchii seems to be the one plant that is somehow doing well so I am grateful for that.
Also, yes the tank still has some algae and unhealthy leaves I haven't pruned off but most of the really awful stuff is gone now. Also the water looks pink/brownish due to the Fe EDDHA. Image of my new dosing schedule is also attached (couldn't find the digital version). If I have missed any key details I apologise.
I'm encountering some very confusing issues with plant healthy currently. Some of the floating sp are doing fairly well, with maybe some slight stunting present (both Ceratopteris sp.), meanwhile others are refusing to grow (Frogbit). As far as submerged plants go, there is also weird things going on. Plants such as the Cryptocoryne sp. are either not growing at all (Usteriana, Balansae) or have slightly deformed and misshapen leaves which appear to also be somewhat stunted (xwillisii). The Amazon sword also has stunted new leaves but they do look mostly healthy other than being a bit pale. The Hygrophila polysperma which are floating at the surface along with the Ceratopteris are in active growth, but new growth is slightly pale and the old leaves don't hang around too long and tend to melt away after a while, but not so much on the Ceratopteris ( Hygrophila might still be converting and stressed?). Vallisneria growth is also really slow and I'm not really sure why. The Anubias and Java fern also have their own unique issues. For example, the Java fern has leaves that are a really weird shape and look NOTHING like Java fern leaves. The Anubias is growing leaves which once they are fully grown are literally just the bottom 1/4 of the leaf along with the petiole, with the rest of the leaf either looking like it has been eaten or rotted away? The Sagittaria and Helanthium are both absolutely hopeless and just not growing at all. In fact the whole plant of the Helanthium seem to have rotted from the meristem outwards which just seems extremely unusual to me. The dwarf Sagittaria is just hanging on, but not really doing anything. The old leaves on the Sagittaria are melting slightly but it doesn't look totally hopeless.
So this is my opinion on what is going on:
Now I have recently changed the flow setup to accommodate the floating plants, but all the plants still seem to rock gently in the flow no matter where they are so that doesn't seem to be a huge problem, especially since it is low tech. I have also changed lighting units to the default 10w light bar but as the Ceratopteris is shading out a decent portion of the tank and will continue to grow and shade out more of the tank as time goes on, I don't think overlighting would be an issue for much longer, assuming that it is causing these issues. I have been dosing the same DIY fertiliser mix recently but just the past few days I've been using a new dosing schedule. I still dose around 1/3 to 1/2 EI but spread out over the week, and alternate macro/micro to ensure a constant steady flow of nutrients, and to hopefully keep the nutrient levels lower overall which would possibly be better for the fish. I have also reduced micronutrient dosing slightly because I was worried high iron levels might be interfering with the ability of the plant to take up calcium (I have had this issue before and it went away permanently after I did a series of large water changes and drastically reduced micronutrient dosing). I have also increased NPK dosage by 50 percent, from 10ppm NO3 to 15ppm NO3 per week. Based on the changes I have made over the last few weeks, I am thinking I may be hypnotised by nutrients slightly and that it might actually be that I have CO2 issues again? But then it is mostly the slower growing plants showing these weird issues, so maybe the issue has been already resolved and there is simply a lag period before I see healthy growth again, as the misshapen/stunted leaves started appearing few weeks back I think?
I definitely want to keep in mind I could be totally wrong with these assumptions as after all I am the person with unhealthy plants in the end. There is so many different symptoms being shown by different plant sp that I am a bit lost myself.
Either way , I can't thank everyone who has gave me advice so far any more. The tank is doing so much better despite some issues still being present, and this is definitely due to the advice on this forum. I don't think any advice I have ever been given by an LFS (well obviously an LFS wouldn't really necessarily want you to have success, but I guess it depends on the people who run it), or by another forum or even read in a fishkeeping magazine has ever come close to being as helpful as the advice on UKAPS. I really thank you all for sacrificing your free time just to help out a stranger on the internet.
The C. beckettii var petchii seems to be the one plant that is somehow doing well so I am grateful for that.
Also, yes the tank still has some algae and unhealthy leaves I haven't pruned off but most of the really awful stuff is gone now. Also the water looks pink/brownish due to the Fe EDDHA. Image of my new dosing schedule is also attached (couldn't find the digital version). If I have missed any key details I apologise.
Attachments
"Substrate is "pond plant potting soil" capped with a mixture of sand/fine gravel."
Out of curiosity, is it this thing ? Did the soil had any kind of small balls mixed in and did you sift & soak it for few weeks prior to using in the tank?
Out of curiosity, is it this thing ? Did the soil had any kind of small balls mixed in and did you sift & soak it for few weeks prior to using in the tank?
Hi
Firstly....How many litres is your aquarium?
You must reduce your lighting duration...this drives Co2 uptake which you don't have a lot of and just encourages algae growth!
I would just cut the RO with a ratio of 75% to 25% tap water or 50%/50% ratio!
hoggie
Firstly....How many litres is your aquarium?
You must reduce your lighting duration...this drives Co2 uptake which you don't have a lot of and just encourages algae growth!
Magnesium?
I would just cut the RO with a ratio of 75% to 25% tap water or 50%/50% ratio!
hoggie
greenbliss
Member
The aquarium is 125 litres. I add around 7.5mg/l additional magnesium over the course of the week and the remineralised water already has around 8mg/l Mg. Lighting is around 8 hours a day. I thought general advice was that intensity is what matters?
I cannot use tapwater at all. Even RO cut with 25% tap water would lead to fish dying after water changes overnight. Gasping at the surface as if they had been poisoned by ammonia. I really do not trust the tapwater and will NEVER use it.
No, it was "Westland pond plant potting soil". It didn't have any small balls mixed in (assuming you are asking about fertiliser) and it was a mostly loam based soil and it didn't seem like there was anything to sift out really. I did not soak it before using it in the tank.
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Hi
Crypts don't need a lot of Co2 they can manage on low levels of Co2 in the water column.
This is probably a fertilizer imbalance, which one is difficult to tell.
My guess would be Nitrate!
greenbliss
Member
By imbalance do you mean there is too much, or just too little? I have been leaning towards nutrient issues too since after all the Hygrophila and Ceratopteris right at the top are doing just fine so a CO2 issue seems a bit less likely. Combine that with the fact the Frogbit is also being wierd I guess it makes sense. What would be the best thing to try do? More water changes?
Hi
I would dose extra Potassium Nitrate....to get the Nitrate level up to 25ppm!
Just make one change every few weeks.....and monitor the plants that are planted in the substrate.
I would dose extra Potassium Nitrate....to get the Nitrate level up to 25ppm!
Just make one change every few weeks.....and monitor the plants that are planted in the substrate.
greenbliss
Member
Ok, I will try. Seems like a lot in a low tech tank but I guess I can try. I am a bit worried about how this might impact fish health long term though, and that is the main thing that is really making me a bit skeptical of dosing more.
Floating plants and plants will uptake a fair amount of Nitrate!
On their website (website link), I could not find "pond potting soil", but found "Westland Aquatic Planting & Potting Mix" (loam + grit) and they mention below:
- Slow release of nutrients to prevent greening of water
- Westland Aquatic Compost contains a mix of sterilised soil (loam) to help retain vital nutrients for the plant and a balance of low-level fertiliser to encourage aquatic plants to grow healthily.
They mention low level fertiliser, it could be ok in the pond, given your aquarium is least a magnitude smaller in volume, this could as well be the cause of your rather prolonged issue.
Probably would be best to test the water right after the water change, refrain from dosing for a week or two and check again... at least N,P, K and Fe. Some will say too much nutrients does not cause algae, but from my personal experience imbalance of nutrients will deteriorate plant health and once they start to brown or rot they attract algae like a magnet. I also learned the hard way that LED lights are always more powerful than they appear to your eyes and being conservative is the way to go with LED lights- less is more, especially if the plants are not 100% healthy.
Hope you get to the bottom of this!
greenbliss
Member
I unfortunately don't have anything to test the water other than TDS meter right now. Maybe growing some Cyperus, Pothos or some other large emergent plant could help sort out nutrient imbalances POSSIBLY?
Those are almost all slow growing plants. I’m growing easy stems and slow growing plants under a 5w daylight bulb in a desk lamp in a 25l tank. Low dose ferts and no co2 and still having to trim stems every other day and remove handfuls of floating plants a few times a week.
The plants you have will do fine under a lot less light. They won’t grow as fast but neither will the algae.
You have quite a few fish in there so neglecting water changes and maintenance will work against you and help thr algae thrive
The plants you have will do fine under a lot less light. They won’t grow as fast but neither will the algae.
You have quite a few fish in there so neglecting water changes and maintenance will work against you and help thr algae thrive
greenbliss
Member
I know, I've kept low tech tanks like this before and the growth was so fast compared to what I'm experiencing now. I have always struggled with this particular tank and I'm not really sure why. I had low tech tanks which were much more shallow running the same light I was running on this tank previously and as long as I let the floaters grow in enough I had no issues with plant health really.
Yes, my light isn't dimmable but I'm definitely going to let floaters completely take over. I also have been doing up to 50 percent water changes twice a week now and cleaning the filter more often. Probably could also be helpful to have a sponge on the intake tube.
greenbliss
Member
I'm not really sure whether the Fe EDDHA or additional NPK dosage did it, but I finally have some new leaves on the Frogbit. I'm going to keep up this dosing schedule and see if things keep improving. I might also start feeding only live and frozen to help with the algae and just avoid dry as it is probably more polluting, and the fish would probably benefit from not getting fed any dry food.
