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No idea what to do - poor plant health and algae
- Thread starter greenbliss
- Start date
Andy Pierce
Member
This is a tough situation! How did it go with the extra amano shrimp? The estimate I've seen in 1 per 5 litres so you could comfortably have at least a dozen in there. Catfish can also help. This next bit might not be what you want to hear, but your plants are struggling to keep up and the #1 thing you could do now would be to implement injected CO2 gas. If you haven't had this before it's not as intimidating as it might sound. The "liquid carbon" just doesn't cut it relative to proper CO2 injection.
greenbliss
Member
The Amano shrimp have settled in well but they are a bit smaller than my current ones. I might get a few more some time soon. I have done CO2 before but I don't really want to do it for this tank.
As for a little update, there seems to be pretty much zero diatom or BBA growth. The BBA has not been spreading for about a month but it hasn't died off completely. Next week I'm going to start doing multiple 50 percent water changes a week once the Amano shrimp settle in. I might make this thread a little bit of a journal for this tank so we can hopefully see how it improves over time.
greenbliss
Member
I went to my LFS yesterday and got some Helanthium, Pearlweed and Caradamine lyrata. Going to see how they help improve the tank. Also going to order some H. Polysperma online. The tank is overall improving and now my new amazon sword leaves are not getting covered in algae immediately. The plants definitely are growing healthier and faster.
greenbliss
Member
The new plants completely melted away. Utterly gutted and no idea why this happened. They have practically disappeared within a few days.
Andy Pierce
Member
This can happen depending on the plant since they are grown out of the water before the sale and need to make new "submerged form" leaves. The grown-in-the-air leaves don't work underwater. Totally normal so have some patience and see whether new leaves come up from the roots. Don't be surprised if the new submerged form leaves look very different to the 'emersed form' leaves the plants came with.
John q
Member
A picture speaks a thousand words.
Top two leaves on this plant are emersed, lower elongated leaf with red hue is submerged (new growth). Plant in this shot is echinodorus red wild grass, been in the tank about 4 weeks.
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greenbliss
Member
Hi everyone. Hope everyone had a good new years eve.
The water level is low because I didn't quite have enough RODI during my last water change.
No, it's definitely not just old growth melting off. At least not on the Helanthium. In the case of the Helanthium, the whole plant including roots and crown has completely melted. The sword is hanging on and the crown and roots appear to be OK so maybe it will be fine. The Cardamine is doing ok too. As far as the other plants in the tank, the crypts are finally starting to grow again after many months and have very fresh looking submerged leaves. The sword is also doing a bit better as the new leaves aren't becoming instantly covered in algae anymore. The java moss is also starting to recover and look rather healthy. Overall I think it is slowly improving. Pictures attached bellow.
The water level is low because I didn't quite have enough RODI during my last water change.
Attachments
greenbliss
Member
I have not got any floating plants yet. I'm going to introduce some soon and hope they will make a positive impact.
Ok, I may be committing UKAPS heresy but this is a 45cm tall tank after all. If greenbliss is running an 8w LED at 20 percent, is this too little light?
greenbliss
Member
You might be right. I was considering bumping it up slightly but I will see how the plants react once I add floating plants before doing that. Nothing looks leggy or pale so I think it is OK. The tank gets sunlight in the morning as well as natural light throughout the day from a window.
I missed an important detail! The light is no longer the default bar but instead a fluval aquasky. It is the one designed to fit tanks from 53-83cm. It runs at 16w but I am not sure what that really tells me, or if it tells me anything useful (I assume not).
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Are you removing detritus from the surface of the substrate? I was doing big water changes with little reduction in algae until I started hoovering the substrate - a quite remarkable quantity of organic material was removed and things started to improve with my BBA issue (so may help with other types). Ditto any dying leaves. HTH
Hi all,
I'd turn the light intensity up, it just takes lack of light out of the equation. Add in <"a floating plant">, it takes CO2 out of the equation, and acts as a <"net curtain"> as well.
cheers Darrel
Not heresy for me.
I'd turn the light intensity up, it just takes lack of light out of the equation. Add in <"a floating plant">, it takes CO2 out of the equation, and acts as a <"net curtain"> as well.
cheers Darrel
You need to significantly increase the plant mass. Get floating plants and fast growing stem plants (such as Egeria densa, Ceratophyllum demersum, Limnophila aquatica). A lot of them. Do not plant the Ceratophyllum and Egeria to minimize the risk of melting (they are floating plants anyway). You need a large plant mass to start stabilizing the tank otherwise algae will continue to have the upper hand. You also need to clean up the tank in depth, not incrementally but in a big maintenance session. Remove all dead or dying leaves, scrub the glass, remove all the visible algae that you can (including leaves with algae), and fully vacuum the gravel (but do not disturb the substrate). Then keep up with the water changes, fertilization, and regular maintenance. Good luck!
John q
Member
The wattage itself doesn't tell you a great deal but from the specs you provided we can get some information.
According to the manufacturer this light produces 31 par at a depth of 45.7 cm. Assuming the par drop off is linear to percentage settings (?) then at 20% intensity you'll be putting around 6.2 par at the substrate, possibly a little more dependant on the depth of your substrate.
Normally I'm a fanboy of lowering light intensity but on this occasion I'd be inclined to agree that at 20% you could well be on the cusp of the plants lcp. Obviously we can't account for the natural daylight this tank receives.
I think I'd be tempted to up the percentage a bit, maybe to 33%, this should get you to 10 par which I think is enough to sustain basic plant health.
greenbliss
Member
I will do this really soon. Either tomorrow or on Sunday.
I was about to start mixing some new fertiliser up as I was unsure exactly what I was adding per dose and found out I was out of salts. I ordered some more KNO3, KH2PO4 and Magnesium sulphate, all in 1kg quantities so I hope it will last a while. Currently shopping for some fast growing plants such as Hygrophila, Ceratophyllum, Egeria and floating plants such as Frogbit or Water lettuce. I'm really hoping it'll only get better from now.
I'm unable to tell you if it actually is 20 percent of the original lighting level, but I certainly know it is a lot dimmer. I'll turn it up a few clicks on the remote anyways and see what happens.
aaron.c
Member
Sorry to see you are still having a rough time with this tank.
I strongly believe that before you do anything else, get some floating plants in, see how they perform.
As others have said, though I know you have struggled with it, next get in tonnes of cheap fast growing stems. Hygrophila polysperma or even just plain cheap cambomba aquatica. You want a dense fast growing jungle to get things going.
I would be inclined, given the low light and non CO2, not to mess with EI salts. Get an all in one liquid food that is easy to dose. It's easier for you, and helps to rule out another bunch of variables.
Keep it as simple as possible, and try to change only 1 thing at a time. Don't underestimate the power of consistency, certainly at the start of a tank or recovery, you need to nail the consistency.
Good luck
I strongly believe that before you do anything else, get some floating plants in, see how they perform.
As others have said, though I know you have struggled with it, next get in tonnes of cheap fast growing stems. Hygrophila polysperma or even just plain cheap cambomba aquatica. You want a dense fast growing jungle to get things going.
I would be inclined, given the low light and non CO2, not to mess with EI salts. Get an all in one liquid food that is easy to dose. It's easier for you, and helps to rule out another bunch of variables.
Keep it as simple as possible, and try to change only 1 thing at a time. Don't underestimate the power of consistency, certainly at the start of a tank or recovery, you need to nail the consistency.
Good luck
There should be no such thing as UKAPS heresy. If the lowered light hasnt provided the results we wanted then its time to try something else
greenbliss
Member
I use a more dilute fertiliser solution, not exactly EI. I just don't like buying water with some salts in it. I don't really find mixing salts complicated at all, I'm accurate with my measurements and it has never gone wrong. I do it every water change after all (adding minerals to RO water).
I certainly do agree that being consistent will reward you with good plant health. It's just easy to lose motivation when the tank is doing badly to be quite honest.
