Newbie with Low Light + CO2 Supplemented Tank

[ceg4048]

Hi Faizal,
Yes that's looking much better. The real proof of the pudding is whether you can see motion of all the plant leaves even at the deepest level. Are you re-dosing after each water change? Remember as discussed previously that you may need to double or treble the Flourish dosing. In the absence of the atomizer your only alternatives are to either increase the injection rate or to add liquid carbon if it's available in your location.

Cheers,

 

[faizal]

Good Lord!! I think I pressed "submit" a couple of times & ended up with multiple copies of the same post. I don't know how to cancel it.

 

[faizal]

I think I am going to TRIPLE my entire dosing.

Reason being :

1. A few new shoots of H. Polysperma are coming out glassy. I have removed them now,....just the new shoots. A funny thing is one of the new shoots which is at the same level of the spray bar outlet is absolutely healthy looking. The glassy ones are those that are at the mid height level of the tank,....lower down from the spray bar level. Is it related to poor flow = poor nutrient carrying capacity??

2. Some ( 2 to be exact) of the staurogyne's new leaves are also yellowish and glassy looking.

3. Diatoms seem to have a high affinity towards my Staurogynes. The funny thing is,....the single staurogyne plant which I had planted under the shade of H. difformis is actually squeaky clean :? How is this so?

I had removed as much of the diatoms from the leaves as I possibly could by rubbing the leaves with my fingers gently.

Clive ,...do you think that the PRIMARY CAUSE for all this could have originated from the inital poor flow in the tank,...I mean it's only Day 2 of Better Flow now.

I have never tested my Tap Water for phosphates,....but do you think I should,....(Phosphates in tap probably binding my dosed IroN)

I DON'T WANT TO TAKE A CHANCE AND WAIT ANOTHER WEEK TO SEE IF THE CURRENT FLOW CHANGES THINGS ,...Y'KNOW? SUPPOSE I INCREASE MY DOSING AS FOLLOWING :

KHNO3 = 1/2 TEASPOON - 3 TIMES A WEEK
KH2PO4 = 1/4 TEASPOON - 3 TIMES A WEEK
FLOURISH = 15 ml - 3 TIMES A WEEK
SEACHEM EQUILIBRIUM : 1 TEASPOON !! - ONCE A WEEK
SEACHEM EXCEL = AS PRESCRIBED ON THE BOTTLE ( DAILY DOSING)

**** Water change 3 times a week @ 50%
**** On "water change" days dosing is done only AFTER the water change,...as always.

Would you consider this a reasonable alteration to my dosing regime?

 

[faizal]

Diatoms covered Staurogynes

Squeaky Clean staurogyne plant that's situated on under the shade of H.difformis

 

[faizal]

Glassy looking H.polysperma new shoots

 

[faizal]

Healthy New Shoots of H. Polysperma which are at the same region of the tank but only difference is that they are closer to the outlet of the spray bar in comparison to the problematic ones.

 

[ceg4048]

Hi Faizal,
Structural faults such as translucency are only ever due to poor CO2. These are not related to nutrient so trebling your dosing won't do anything to address this.

You cannot have instantaneous reversal of fortunes with plants. it may take a few weeks, depending on species to recover from a deficiency. I really wouldn't worry too much about the diatomic algae. It should go away after a few weeks. Concentrate more on improving your CO2 injection rate.

The photo of the Staurogyne looks more like GSA than diatoms to me. GSA is both PO4 and CO2 related.

I have never tested my Tap Water for phosphates,....but do you think I should,....(Phosphates in tap probably binding my dosed IroN)

I suggest that you forget about this line of reasoning. You are already adding huge quantities of PO4 rendering the tap water values more or less irrelevant. Turning to test kits never solves your problems, firstly because they can't tell you the truth with enough regularity to be useful. Increase your CO2 injection rate and maintain your current dosing scheme.

Cheers,

 

[faizal]

Hi Faizal,
Structural faults such as translucency are only ever due to poor CO2. These are not related to nutrient so trebling your dosing won't do anything to address this.You cannot have instantaneous reversal of fortunes with plants. it may take a few weeks, depending on species to recover from a deficiency.

Sorry Clive,....I guess I got carried away there. But didn't you say that the yellowing of new shoots could be due to Mg, Mn or Iron deficiency? I noticed some yellowing and translucency on one of the new shoots of the Staurogyne's leaves. I am very sorry to be such a bother but I am confused. Could this yellowing be due to CO2 then?

At James' website, he mentions that pale growths of new leaves, yellowing of new leaves and new leaves that become brittle are problems associated with Iron deficiency. Hence I thought I was looking at an iron deficient tank. Okay,... so,...that means pale leaves are not the same as transluscent leaves. This is trickier than I thought.

Concentrate more on improving your CO2 injection rate.
Increase your CO2 injection rate and maintain your current dosing scheme.

Yes,..okay. So,.. I am injecting 3 bps now. Both DCs are as green as this guy --> when the lights come on.
But I will increase it further to 4-5 bps .

And i will continue to dose DOUBLE (my current dosing scheme) of EI levels. I will be patient and i will wait it out for a couple of weeks. My UP Atomizer should be here by next week.

The photo of the Staurogyne looks more like GSA than diatoms to me. GSA is both PO4 and CO2 related.

Yeah ! I know !! It does look like GSA there,...but Clive ,...when I wiped them out between my fingers,...they came off easily,....like dust y'know? I am taking these pictures with my handphone . That's the reason behind their poor quality. But like I said,..they come off easily,...so it has to be Diatoms,...right? B'cos GSA doesn't come off easily

I have never tested my Tap Water for phosphates,....but do you think I should,....(Phosphates in tap probably binding my dosed IroN)

I suggest that you forget about this line of reasoning.

DONE ALREADY :!: It's out of that window .

Increase your CO2 injection rate and maintain your current dosing scheme.
Cheers,

I will do exactly that.Thank you ,Clive.

 

[ceg4048]

Hi mate,
OK, if it's just diatoms then just ignore it for now. As the plants recover, get stronger and grow more quickly they will be able to resist the diatomic attack. Remember that along with injection rate increase you can also add more Excel (which equals CO2). This should help speed recovery.

Cheers,

 

[faizal]

Hey Clive,....I am utterly amazed at how you don't seem to tire answering all my silly questions & doubts. Thank you so much . You have no idea how much I owe you !!! Today when the lights came on the DCs were at a very light green colour==> (i.e. the colour of his spectacles).

Hi mate,
OK, if it's just diatoms then just ignore it for now. As the plants recover, get stronger and grow more quickly they will be able to resist the diatomic attack. Remember that along with injection rate increase you can also add more Excel (which equals CO2). This should help speed recovery.

Cheers,

Okay,...I am currently dosing Excel as per Seachem's recommendation. The tank does actually look much cleaner now.

Thanks again.

 

[faizal]

Sorry for the long silence,...I was away for about 5 days and when I came back i was shocked to see that most of the rotalas that were previously doing well suddenly started melting over the lower half of the stems just like the limnophilas had a couple of weeks ago . My DC was dark blue despite the fact that it was well over 3 hours into injection period at 4 bps!!!! Too disappointed to post a pic.

The CO2 output was nil. The main tap of the co2 cylinder was closed!!!

I know this sounds like "paranormal activity part 3 " but guys I swear!!! Most of the foreground staurogynes had turned yellow. My mum ( the sweet soul ) who proudly took the charge of daily ferts & Excel dosing swears she never touched that dial.

Anyways,....blessings in disguise? Everything happens for a reason. But how can anyone explain this????

Scrapped the tank washed my substrate ,...dried them out,...starting all over again. But this time I am gonna be better prepared. Better planning . Got my UP Atomizer yesterday.


Faizal

 

[ceg4048]

Hi mate,
Sorry to hear of your troubles. A shame really. About the only positive I can think of is that you have now seen with your eyes the correlation between poor CO2 and the damage it causes. You recall the earlier incident with the Blyxa and Limnophilia at a time when it was lees clear why the plants had this decay. Now there should be no doubt in your mind of the typical failure mode of CO2.

Unfortunately, as Barr has mentioned, CO2 is like a powerful narcotic. The plants get hooked on it and so do the hobbyists. Suddenly your whole life revolves around "can I get my CO2 fix today?"

The only hobbyists who are truly free are those using non-CO2 methods. But we junkies just don't care. We're only happy when we're high.

Anyway, this second go around should be easier because you're smarter now.

Cheers,

 

[faizal]

Hi mate,
Sorry to hear of your troubles. A shame really. About the only positive I can think of is that you have now seen with your eyes the correlation between poor CO2 and the damage it causes.,.........
Anyway, this second go around should be easier because you're smarter now.

Thanks Clive . I wouldn't have come this far if it hadn't been for all the help that I had received,....especially from you.

I have learnt so much with respect to keeping a planted tank here. In a way I am feeling it's all a good thing.

Thanks for those kind words Clive.

You guys are truly awesome.



Faizal

 

[faizal]

Should this type melt (lower half stem melt) occur in a non co2 tank,...would it be safe to presume that it occured due to high lighting levels in that particular tank.

 

[ceg4048]

Melt can happen in any type of tank if the plant is subjected to a negative change in CO2. In Non-CO2, after the plants are submerged melt can occur and the plant can regrow as long as the lighting is not excessive.

Cheers,

 

[faizal]

I just started a second tank,...just for fun. It is a low tech non co2 tank (5.5 US Gallon) ,....I have just transferred some of the H. Polysperma, H. Difformis, 2 of the last remaining stems of Rotala Rotundifolias & the anubias petite nana into this tank.

The substrate is Flourite. The light is a hang on type. It is raised about 6 INCHES above the water surface. It's a 11 Watt tube but the manufacturer says it has the effective wattage of a 60 Watt tube. I think it's a Compact Fluorescent. Here's a pic of it :

Clive, considering the set up,...you would say the lighting level is too high for this tank?

I'm sorry ,....this is unrelated to this thread but I would love to know what you think.

 

[ceg4048]

Hi Faizal,
Don't get too wrapped up in the wattage rating of the energy saver bulbs. This is clever marketing and what it really means is that the human visual cortex perceives the brightness of the light produced by that bulb to be as bright as another bulb of higher wattages which produces it's light in a part of the spectrum the the visual cortex is lees sensitive to.

Since we are more sensitive to green and yellow wavelengths, these bulbs have a high green and yellow content making them appear brighter to us. It therefore takes less energy to make the light seem brighter. A normal incandescent bulb will generate more light in the red region and some in the yellow. The red wavelengths are not as visible to us so that it requires more wattage with that set of wavelengths.

In addition, fluorescent bulbs convert a much higher percentage of their energy input into light (30%-40%) than an incandescent bulb (10%-20%) which produces mostly infrared, i.e. heat.

So without a PAR meter there is really no way of knowing exactly how much photosynthetic energy is actually striking the leaves. Our wpg guidelines are really only valid for T5 bulbs, and only within a very narrow band of tank sizes, since distance from plays a significant role in energy dissipation.

In the absence of any PAR data, the only option is to try the bulb and see how you get on.

Cheers,

 

[faizal]

Thank you Clive. I was afraid it was going to be something like that.

The Little Green Corner. That's what I'd like to call it. Jason (greenjar) suggested that cute name . I kind of like it too.

Thanks Clive.

My new plants for the 17 US Gallon Tank are due for arrival this afternoon. I got the UP-Atomizer now Baby!!!! Yeah!!! This time around it's gonna different.

Hey Clive,...should I continue with this same thread or should I start with a new one because I have actually taken up quite a few pages here on this thread & my tank isn't all that great either to carry so many pages worth of journal in it anyways

It would be a better idea to start off with a new thread don't you think? The plant list is different. The hardscapes are different.

"Newbie --> A second go at it !!" What do you think?

Faizal

 

[ceg4048]

I'd just keep the same thread going for better continuity mate. You can always change the thread name. I think Paulo (London Dragon) has the world record for a journal thread length... 70+ pages (and not even one picture of the gilrfriend...very disappointing!)

Cheers,

 

[faizal]