Major shrimp deaths, feeling like giving them up :(

[jaypeecee]

Hi @Nick potts

Just done another batch of tests.

I see that you are using NT Labs test kits. You will note that, despite being a UK company, they adopt the American system of reporting nitrite as NO2-N and nitrate as NO3-N. You will need to multiply the readings you get by the conversion factors shown below:

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/NitrogenIonConversion.php

I have spoken with NT Labs about this but I don't expect them to make any changes anytime soon!

Of course, if your readings are zero, it makes no difference!

JPC

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

That is pretty much RO water out of the tap, less than 1dGH/dKH, but a pH over pH8 because of the NaOH addition.

I should have put the figures from the report in:

Hardness Total (Ca mg/l)

1. Number of samples :18
2. Min. 8.90
3. Mean 12.83
4. Max. 16.70

The workings for dGH/dKH are in <"Good stones and rocks...">

cheers Darrel

 

[Nick potts]

My best guess - low gh but more likely Ammonia caused by waste at substrate level.

ps. you shouldn’t be able to see the soil. Should be covered with plants.

Appreciate the input.

While I would agree more plants are better, a small section of unplanted soil should not be an issue?

I have tested, tested and retested ammonia with no readings. Substrate does get a good cleaning during water changes.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I add JBL minerals to the tank that contains calcium, magnesium etc, but nothing else.

Is it this one "JBL Aquadur - Mineral salt water conditioner to raise the hardness of freshwater aquariums"? That should do.

cheers Darrel

 

[Nick potts]

Hi @Nick potts


I see that you are using NT Labs test kits. You will note that, despite being a UK company, they adopt the American system of reporting nitrite as NO2-N and nitrate as NO3-N. You will need to multiply the readings you get by the conversion factors shown below:

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/NitrogenIonConversion.php

I have spoken with NT Labs about this but I don't expect them to make any changes anytime soon!

Of course, if your readings are zero, it makes no difference!

JPC

Very bad of them, especially as there is no mention of anything in there instructions, and most people (me included ) did not know that there was an American system.

 

[Nick potts]

Hi all, Is it this one "JBL Aquadur - Mineral salt water conditioner to raise the hardness of freshwater aquariums"? That should do.

cheers Darrel

Hi Darrel, it's JBL nano crusta, which contains Montmorillonite amongst other things

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi Folks,

Unless @Nick potts has been adding <"calcium and carbonate">. Then his tank won't have much of either dKH or dGH.

So true.

I'm no expert with shrimp but, additional to calcium in the water column, calcium in their diet must be equally/more important?

JPC

 

[Nick potts]

Question regarding substrate. As 99% of the plants in the tank are epiphytes and the soil substrate was mostly put in for it's buffering qualities do you think it would be best to replace with a calcium carbonate based coral sand?


The tank is mostly silica sand at the front with a large mound/planted area at the back with the aqua soil

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @Nick potts

I add JBL minerals to the tank that contains calcium, magnesium etc, but nothing else.

Is that Aquadur? You can adjust KH and GH to suit the shrimps. Luxury!

JPC

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

JBL nano crusta...... which contains Montmorillonite

That becomes <"more problematic">, and another example of a company selling a product without <"actually explaining what it contains, or how it works">.

I would just add a cheap calcium carbonate source, <"Oyster shell chick grit would do"> and at least you would know what it contained.

Chemically Montmorillonite is hydrated sodium calcium aluminum magnesium silicate hydroxide (Na,Ca)0.33(Al,Mg)2(Si4O10)(OH)2·nH2O. Potassium, iron, and other cations are common substitutes; the exact ratio of cations varies with source.

cheers Darrel

 

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

I'm no expert with shrimp but, additional to calcium in the water column, calcium in their diet must be equally/more important?

Indeed. As I understand it, both dietary and water-column calcium are more-or-less equally important. I also believe some magnesium is required too, in lesser amounts.

So in addition to making sure the water GH is in the right range (shrimp seem to have a “Goldilocks” relationship with calcium - too much is bad, and so is too little), it’s good to feed a variety of veg like mushy courgette, wilted kale, boiled cabbage, etc etc. Little bits of algae wafer usually attract a big crowd as well.

 

[jaypeecee]

Is that Aquadur? You can adjust KH and GH to suit the shrimps. Luxury!

I see this has already been dealt with. I'm too slow!

JPC

 

[Nick potts]

OK, so my KH and GH are both on the lower end of the recommended range, so I will up them slowly.

Calcium carbonate sand to replace the silica sand I am using should help with both calcium uptake and KH increase/stability

I will pick up a remineraliser to add to my water change water, good idea?

Other than that I am not sure what else I can do. I will monitor the last remaining shrimp.

 

[Siege]

Appreciate the input.

While I would agree more plants are better, a small section of unplanted soil should not be an issue?

I have tested, tested and retested ammonia with no readings. Substrate does get a good cleaning during water changes.

How well? Cleaning how? Stirring it up, releasing organics that stay at the substrate?

I donot think anyone could do it as well as plants. That combined with a nice turkey baster and bloody massive consecutive water changes! 😂

im not being argumentative, I just think you are going down a rabbit hole testing for copper etc.

ive seen it twice now where ammonia is zero but the ammonia, or whatever, is leaching from the substrate When the shrimp turn it over.

 

[Siege]

Ps. Are you not sure it is fish predating on them?

 

[alto]

@Nick potts
You may find this article helpful (it has some excellent photos)

https://skfaquatics.com/forum/forums/topic/5052-shrimp-diseases-and-diagnosis/

 

[alto]

Also decent photos

https://aquariumbreeder.com/understanding-dwarf-shrimp-diseases-and-parasites/

And

https://www.jbl.de/en/press/detail/467/recognising-shrimp-diseases-and-reacting-in-time

 

[Nick potts]

How well? Cleaning how? Stirring it up, releasing organics that stay at the substrate?

I donot think anyone could do it as well as plants. That combined with a nice turkey baster and bloody massive consecutive water changes! 😂

im not being argumentative, I just think you are going down a rabbit hole testing for copper etc.

ive seen it twice now where ammonia is zero but the ammonia, or whatever, is leaching from the substrate When the shrimp turn it over.

Ps. Are you not sure it is fish predating on them?

Thanks Seige.

Only fish are ember tetras so I don't think predation is an issue.

Regarding copper, I think you are probably right but it can't hurt to test.

For substrate cleaning I don't stir up the soil, I use a sand flatter to waft the surface while syphoning, may not be the best method but seems to be working in other tanks.

The tank is heavily planted. What else would you suggest?

 

[Nick potts]

@alto thank you for the links, i will look them over.

 

[Geoffrey Rea]

Hi @Nick potts

I add Bacter ae every other day

You’re over feeding them straight off the bat.

water changes I have dropped to around 5% daily.

Why? Over feeding and small water changes.

i am finding a new dead shrimp daily and now down to maybe 2-4.

See above.

The tank is fully cycled and mature.

If you’re adding in that much AE bacter it doesn’t matter. If you follow their recommended feeding it will poison your tank regardless. There’s plenty of youtube videos out there promoting their products but I hazard a bet you’re feeding one tank what most breeders would feed in a dozen tanks without actually asking you any specific questions. They have a vested interest in you getting through their product as fast as possible, but anyone on here with a planted tank with large surface areas available won’t be feeding their cherry shrimp. Their tanks will be infested with them.

Temp 24c (can get higher on hot days)

Too hot. 20C-22C does just fine. Have bred thousands of cherry shrimp. Lower they can cope, higher is not necessary but they will cope but metabolism will increase.

Disease may also be a consideration as just mentioned.

I think the idea of caring for shrimp has become really profitable but not very helpful.