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Just Stop Oil Protesters

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Why don't you tell me? Why you believe anyone will die from it at all.
I don’t need to. You prove to me that nobody will die from radiation poisoning over the next 10,000 years from nuclear waste. You can’t.

 
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I don’t need to. You prove to me that nobody will die from radiation poisoning over the next 10,000 years from nuclear waste. You can’t.

Unfortunately, Nuclear will have to become a factor if we want to make a big dent in the CO2 emission problem. My own hope is that we will be able to deal with the waste issue over time, but we probably do not have time to wait for that solution first. However, even with present day understanding of nuclear physics it's perfectly reasonable to expect we will eventually be able to transmute the waste into completely harmless compounds at scale and at a reasonable cost so we don't have bury it and wait for distant future generations to deal with it.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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The fact we live in an age where the massive waste of energy known as space tourism is a thing tells you all you need to know about which group of people are directing the climate and energy policies and debate worldwide. Only one sector of the population benefits (if you count personal pleasure as a benefit) from this activity and 99.999967% are not members of this group.
 
When l started this thread it was to highlight the disruption caused by JSO to the very people who probably accept their ultimate aim ,the end of fossil fuels. I don't mind the fact it's veered off but it's all still relevant to global warming.,habitat destruction,water pollution etc Healthy debate is good ,l know some don't agree that global warming is an issue. I accept they have a different view but off topic gives us the chance to discuss this
 
When l started this thread it was to highlight the disruption caused by JSO to the very people who probably accept their ultimate aim ,the end of fossil fuels. I don't mind the fact it's veered off but it's all still relevant to global warming.,habitat destruction,water pollution etc Healthy debate is good ,l know some don't agree that global warming is an issue. I accept they have a different view but off topic gives us the chance to discuss this

Whenever there is conversation in life about anything that matters or people feel strongly about (politics, religion, human rights etc) there is always the chance of offence, however if we as a human race don't discuss things than progress won't ever happen, although I appreciate we probably aren't going to change the world from what we write on here either. I think as long as people aren't directing attacks at each other then it's ok as it's in a separate off-topic section of the forum, very easy to avoid if you don't want to go down the rabbit hole and only stick to aquarium related things. I don't agree with everyone in this thread but I respect their right to have their own opinions and voice them. Offence is subjective and the good thing is that if I am offended by anyone's opinions....nothing happens. If you want free speech then you have to live with the risk of being offended. If that is an issue for anyone then just ignore the sub-forum or any threads which you may find offensive and carry on enjoying the forum 🙂

Edit - I do understand that it's not UKAPS role to allow us to speak about all topics, I'm happy as long as the fishy stuff always remains 😀
 
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Hi all,
Healthy debate is good ,l know some don't agree that global warming is an issue. I accept they have a different view but off topic gives us the chance to discuss this
I don't agree with everyone in this thread but I respect their right to have their own opinions and voice them
Same for me, we need to remain a <"broad church"> and <"respectful of other people's views">, even if we don't necessarily <"agree with them">.

I don't think this means that <"we have to be silent"> when <"people espouse views without any scientific credibility"> or <"express a political view"> with <"no relevance to the thread or forum"> & <"Electricity energy costs">.
...... The Progressive Left is responsible for most of the problems that are making us suffer right now. The way they handled/are handling C19 and Climate Change in most countries alone is the cause of most of our suffering as of late. .....
If you want free speech then you have to live with the risk of being offended
Definitely, I might not agree with what you say (or even <"be offended by it">😉*), but I defend the <"right to free speech">.I think we may have had times in the past, as a forum, when we haven't been as <"receptive to different approaches"> as we should have been.
... I only started posting on this forum, after a long term lurking and reading what have been a stream of brilliant posts, because I had become increasingly concerned that it had stopped being a forum where different experiences and options could be discussed, and had become a forum where you had to agree that "high nutrients, High CO2" was the answer to every question, and if you tried to post any other view your opinions were ridiculed, presumably with the intent of intimidating heterodox posters into not posting. I'm fortunate in that I'm in a position where I have the solid bed-rock of a scientific background (in a related field) and access to all the relevant scientific literature. I don't know whether I'm right or wrong, but I would suspect that the high priest of "high nutrients, High CO2" know, without a scintilla of doubt, that they are right. ......

* This is definitely not offensive and I hold the two quoted posters in the highest respect.

cheers Darrel
 
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Given we have free speech, this is just a personal opinion, and intended as a different perspective. Loving the forum, and as a relative newbie, the off topic posts mostly struck me as not really belonging, from the start. They stuck out like a sore thumb. And to generalise, they seemed like a few older men who'd been on the forum a loooooong time, using it as their own social media. It tends, I think, to be mostly, or largely, the same people that start those threads. I get the argument for allowing off topic, and I know the forum matters a lot to people, but maybe it's also worth bearing in mind how it comes over? I don't intend that as an argument that off topic shouldn't exist, and I get the idea that we can choose to ignore things. It's also true that those tend to be the treads that cause conflict and they must make extra work for moderators. As I've said before, I enjoy being in touch with people who are not like me, and who know a lot about Aquariums, but personally I'd rather not see remarks querying immigration here. Climate breakdown, OK, but I just don't see a need for it to veer off into that. I say that because I think that having such an international readership it looks crass. If more people from other cultures were commenting on those threads there would be less of an issue. I don't mean this to sound like "policing", but it is worth considering whether we are able to be more receptive to different approaches to aquariums, when we do keep on topic. I just mean this as a different perspective.
 
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Hi all,

I understand scale can be misleading in graphs, but do it as percentages? and then tell me it doesn't make any difference?

Here is the most up to date CO2 reading <"Trends in CO2 - NOAA Global Monitoring Laboratory"> = 422.38 ppm.

So we will call that 420 ppm, against 280 ppm pre the industrial revolution and 280 / 420, so just a third more (140 ppm) atmospheric CO2 than there was before the large scale combustion of fossil fuels: <"Climate Change: Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide">.

CO2_emissions_vs_concentrations_1751-2022.png


You can scale either Y axis on that graph any way you like, it doesn't change what it shows.

I'm pretty sure you can attribute cause and effect to the combustion of fossil fuels, because all the variations across pre Anthropocene geological time (<"Anthropocene - Wikipedia">) are accounted for by natural factors.

This is just the Holocene (last 10,000 years), from <"Holocene CO2 Variability and Underlying Trends - CO2 Coalition"> - <"CO2 Coalition - Wikipedia">. They have their own agenda <"Trump adviser created group to defend CO2">, but even they <"can't spin"> the far right of that graph.

Picture1.jpg


cheers Darrel

This may be of interest

 
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Hi all,
This may be of interest
It is. I'll be honest I'd never heard of him until today, but a very short trawl through the WWW would bring into question* whether he is either an objective observer and / or <"a scientist">?
<"Jamal Munshi"> - Sonoma State University - <"The United Nations: An Unconstrained Bureaucracy"> and <"Climate Denialism">.

We are all entitled to <"our opinions">, and to make our own minds up. You may find his argument more powerful than <"Climate stripes - University of Reading">, but personally I don't.

@Guest, just a question for you (or anybody else who might like to comment), I've linked in a graph (below) from a group with a stated anti-climate change / anthropogenic CO2 agenda, can you find anything, anything at all, from reputable scientists that supports the lack of link between anthropogenic CO2 emission and Global Climatic Change <"Scientific consensus on climate change - Wikipedia">?
This is just the Holocene (last 10,000 years), from <"Holocene CO2 Variability and Underlying Trends - CO2 Coalition"> - <"CO2 Coalition - Wikipedia">. They have their own agenda <"Trump adviser created group to defend CO2">, but even they <"can't spin"> the far right of that graph.

Picture1.jpg

* That may not be quite what I originally wrote.

cheers Darrel
 
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From the site where it'spublished;
"SSRN: Tomorrow’s research today, since 1994
An open-access preprint community providing services to academic schools & government institutions. Scholars can post their early research, collaborate on theories and discoveries, and get credit for their ideas before peer-reviewed publication."
 
From the site where it'spublished;
"SSRN: Tomorrow’s research today, since 1994
An open-access preprint community providing services to academic schools & government institutions. Scholars can post their early research, collaborate on theories and discoveries, and get credit for their ideas before peer-reviewed publication."
how to fix the broken peer review system -durham university
problems with peer review shine a light on the gaps in scientific training - american society for microbiology
let's stop pretending peer review works - vox.com
Peer review: a flawed process at the heart of science and journals - journal of the royal society of medicine

The two researchers, Douglas Peters and Stephen Ceci, wanted to test how reliable and unbiased this process actually is. To do this, they selected 12 papers that had been published about two to three years earlier in extremely selective American psychology journals.
The researchers then altered the names and university affiliations on the journal manuscripts and resubmitted the papers to the same journal. In theory, these papers should have been high quality — they’d already made it into these prestigious publications. If the process worked well, the studies that were published the first time would be approved for publication again the second time around.
What Peters and Ceci found was surprising. Nearly 90 percent of the peer reviewers who looked at the resubmitted articles recommended against publication this time. In many cases, they said the articles had “serious methodological flaws.”
This raised a number of disquieting possibilities. Were these, in fact, seriously flawed papers that got accepted and published? Can bad papers squeak through depending on who reviews them? Did some papers get in because of the prestige of their authors or affiliations? At the very least, the experiment suggested the peer review process was unnervingly inconsistent..............
.............
The Lancet editor Richard Horton has called the process “unjust, unaccountable ... often insulting, usually ignorant, occasionally foolish, and frequently wrong.” Not to mention that identifying peer reviewers and getting their comments slows down the progress of science — papers can be held up for months or years — and costs society a lot of money. Scientists and professors, after all, need to take time away from their research to edit, unpaid, the work of others.
Richard Smith, the former editor of the BMJ, summed up: “We have little or no evidence that peer review ‘works,’ but we have lots of evidence of its downside.” Another former editor of the Lancet, Robbie Fox, used to joke that his journal “had a system of throwing a pile of papers down the stairs and publishing those that reached the bottom.” Not exactly reassuring comments from the editors of the world’s leading medical journals
 
, I'll leave it to the scientists to respond.
Alec please don't mistake this for a hostile question because it really isn't, but I'm always interested, where and how do you draw this line? how do you identify when you are entitled/qualified to have an opinion on a subject? Do you refrain from commenting on political economics and leave it to the economists? from immigration issues because you leave it to the anthropologists and sociologists? or is it just that you find certain topics are too polarising and as you indicated before you just wouldn't choose to discuss them on this platform?
It can be very difficult for us as civilians to assess the quality of data and the methodologies used in gathering it but I really don't think people should shy away from engaging with these issues. We just have to remain open to changing our minds as new information emerges or better arguments are presented.
 
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Peer review decision making:

DESK REJECT: Thank god for desk reject. The senior editor will dredge through the morass of papers submitted and reject the bulk of the truly awful papers saving reviewers time and angst trying to tell the author (s) that their paper is unpublishable. A paper based on a sample size of 12 should normally be desk rejected. Lot's of these papers end up in predatory journals, conferences or are 'self published'. *** NB Computer Science, biology, physics and some other 'sciency' fields have very rigorous conferences.

SEND to EDITOR; if the paper has any redeeming elements it will be sent to an editor who reads it. They are normally experts on the topic. They can reject the paper or send it for review.

The REVIEWERS: They should be experts in the topic. They should evaluate rigour, relevance, contribution etc and suggest rejection or development. It should be a developmental process. Humans being humans this can introduce a degree of bias as we desperately search for colleagues that are willing to take up this thankless, time-consuming, and unpaid role.

The editor will make a recommendation to the Senior Editor bases on both the reviews and their own expert opinion. The editor will make the final decision.

Oh and if a flawed paper is published the academic community will jump on this like great white sharks sighting a Australian surfer.... so you won't get published just because 'you are a mate'

It's fairly robust.

In my experience as SE, Editor and author, field 3 rounds of revise and resubmit isn't unusual and 2 years from submission to publication is seen as rapid.

A 5% -10% acceptance rate wasn't unusual in the journals I supported.

In short: peer review isn't perfect. It does (on the whole) work well. The alternatives are pretty dire ....

However, I understand that if you quote from an unknown and dangerously inaccurate Internet source on a public policy issue you could picked up by Trump for a major government role. Swigging bleach can apparently cure covid, fluoride in water is a Marxist plot,....

On the brightside our AI overlords will shortly be able to write, review, publish papers and then make relevance judgements for humans. No more fallible human involvement. Problem sorted.
 
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Alec please don't mistake this for a hostile question because it really isn't, but I'm always interested, where and how do you draw this line? how do you identify when you are entitled/qualified to have an opinion on a subject? Do you refrain from commenting on political economics and leave it to the economists? from immigration issues because you leave it to the anthropologists and sociologists? or is it just that you find certain topics are too polarising and as you indicated before you just wouldn't choose to discuss them on this platform?
It can be very difficult for us as civilians to assess the quality of data and the methodologies used in gathering it but I really don't think people should shy away from engaging with these issues. We just have to remain open to changing our minds as new information emerges or better arguments are presented.
I don't take it as hostile Louis. I had written a longer reply to Tim but the moderators removed it. Accepting that I just said what I said. Honestly, on this particular forum I don't feel a strong need to "debate". I can see some people making points, but I personally accept climate breakdown as real, and, while I can see there are different potential solutions, I don't feel a need to debate with anyone who doesn't accept the science. I find that an extreme position. An issue I do debate and object to is comments about immigration made on this forum, because there are so many readers from international places, and because I find them objectionable. But the moderators didn't accept my comment so I was guided by that and will steer clear of the subject. My general feeling is that on some subjects people rarely change one another's minds, they talk at cross purposes, and I don't feel I'm an expert or that I need to have strong opinions here – I used to elsewhere, but having seen what social media became, I've tended to speak out less. I really would speak out if this was a forum about politics, but it isn't. So, I agree with all you say, and I saw you making interesting points, as others did. I disagree with one person quite strongly, but I suppose my feeling is that others are responding to them better than I can. I tend to comment on art, if it comes up, because it's an issue I do know about. People should engage, but whether this is the place I really doubt. The discussions about the science of aquariums are so knowledgeable and helpful, including the disagreements, but when we veer onto political subjects then what tends to draw my attention is the statements I most disagree with, and they tend to go beyond anything I feel like arguing with. I also feel that what I enjoy here is discussing my hobby with a wide variety of people, many of whom I might not know otherwise. If I post, or they post, lots of "opinions" on politics then we sort of reveal ourselves in ways that I find narrows my pleasure and ability to listen in terms of plants and fish. We sort of become "that guy who thinks X". That just a personal perspective. In terms of immigration a couple of months ago I did an access event with refugees and it taught me a lot, and was very moving. That's my politics, to try and do things that help, and to meet real people and learn. I make lots of art projects that relate to climate breakdown, or ecology, or flood prevention, but that's my work, and not really relevant. Here I'I also learn from people I might strongly disagree with in real life, but I quite like not disagreeing here. And I'm just a guy whose plants aren't doing so well, but who can breed corys. There are experts on this forum, like Wooki and Darrel, and others, that I learn so much from, about aquariums, and most people always speak in a friendly way. And thanks for the badis badis, he's been ruling the tank like a wee badass.
 
Hi all,
.... It can be very difficult for us as civilians to assess the quality of data and the methodologies used in gathering it but I really don't think people should shy away from engaging with these issues. We just have to remain open to changing our minds as new information emerges or better arguments are presented......
That is really it. Every-one has some degree of <"confirmation bias">, the important bit is that we are receptive to new findings <"Eddington experiment - Wikipedia">*, when the theory you have fails, or proves incomplete. It is the <"Rabbits">
Away from the physical sciences you can still apply Popper's rule. It was <"J. B. S Haldane"> who, when asked "what evidence could destroy his confidence in the theory of evolution " replied <"Fossil rabbits in the Pre-Cambrian">.
or <"Bears argument">.
...... To use a <"slightly strange analogy">*, if we only knew about "Polar Bear", we would say that all bears are white, live in the artic and eat an exclusively carnivorous diet, however if we then found "Giant Panda", followed by a "Sun Bear", we could either review our knowledge of bears, or we could carry on insisting that both Pandas and Sun Bears are actually polar, white and carnivorous.

The "all white and carnivorous" argument is really the traditional view of cycling, fine in the past but untenable once we found the other bears, if that makes sense? ....

*I'm not very numerate, but I read a lot of <"popular science"> books that deal (at least tangentially) with cosmology etc. I've just re-read this one, <"Why Does E=mc2? by Brian Cox and Jeff Forshaw – review">, I still don't really understand it, but I'll acknowledge that.

cheers Darrel
 
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The comments about immigration were in response to a comment about their immigrating owing to climate change. the other view put forward was that it was owing to economic reasons. These are POVs that are acceptable to express.

Comments were removed because some were quite barbed and the thread was in danger of coming off topic.
 
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