Is expensive bio media worth it?

[arcturus]

No, I don’t think so it’s worth it, I use a picture of Seachem matrix in Rock scanner app and found out this thing is actually pumice, the same thing I was using all of my filter. You can buy 10kg of pumice for about about $7 here.

But are there any doubts about the composition of Matrix? Seachem needs to produce the Hazardous Materials form below to export the product, which clearly states that the composition of Matrix is 100% pumice.


As @EchinodorusScape said, pumice can be bought in bulk for a low price. I can order 25Kg (ca. 65 liters) for 28 EUR (43 cents per liter)... and the cost per Kg would be even lower if I buy 1m3. Alternatively, I can buy 4 liters of Matrix, which is exactly the same thing, for 70 EUR (17.5 EUR per liter). So, Matrix costs ~40x more than equivalent pumice 🙄 I doubt any other product in Seachem's range is able to beat the gross margin of Matrix...

 

[CJM70]

The balls look like <Eheim Substrat Pro>, which is sintered glass.
View attachment 178445

No it’s definitely not behind substract pro I have used that before and this is larger and a much more even size. I will try to do a better picture tomorrow.

If the "pebbles" are lightweight then they might be Matrix or any other type of pumice.
View attachment 178446

If that is what he can matrix looks like then I would say that’s what I have although it differs significantly from the large more even white coloured granules that they seem to include in their adverts and in the videos that shops make you want to sell it.

 

[Maf 2500]

If that is what he can matrix looks like then I would say that’s what I have although it differs significantly from the large more even white coloured granules that they seem to include in their adverts and in the videos that shops make you want to sell it.

It looks like Matrix to me - if you spent a few hours scrubbing the individual pieces I am sure you could get it back to the off white/light grey colour of brand new Matrix. The size of individual pieces can vary quite a lot and at various times seachem have marketed different sized granules for different purposes (eg: Pond Matrix).

(Luckily I only bought a litre of Matrix so didn't get stung too badly by the Seachem pumice tax that @arcturus points out above. Seachem try and justify the price by saying it is more highly graded than regular pumice but occasionally you find a piece that looks like a random stone rather than pumice so I think their quality control is not all that.)

 

[Driftless]

Well, I use expensive bio-media so naturally, I think that it is worth it. 🙄 I use this:http://aquario.co.kr/neoMedia/neoMediaPremium.php?ckattempt=1 and I purchased too much so I will not be replacing it soon. I selected this media because of the effect that it claims on ph, although I have not seen a difference. There are a lot of good media out there, the ones that I won't use are the plastic ones.

 

[mort]

I thought eheim substrat pro initially because I have that (free with the filter) but it does look like the balls are all to uniform from the picture. I wouldn't be surprised if they are though because it looks like the filter was "pimped" (plus my filter only gets opened a couple of times a year so i cant remember if they are randomly sized like on the eheim website, my initial thought was they were uniform) but from afar they do look like hydroleca as well.

 

[arcturus]

Well, I use expensive bio-media so naturally, I think that it is worth it. 🙄 I use this:http://aquario.co.kr/neoMedia/neoMediaPremium.php?ckattempt=1 and I purchased too much so I will not be replacing it soon. I selected this media because of the effect that it claims on ph, although I have not seen a difference. There are a lot of good media out there, the ones that I won't use are the plastic ones.

Why are you concerned with pH regulation in first place? If your pH is not under control then you should identify the root cause. Moreover, unless you own very specific fish or plants, the inhabitants of the tank will simply not care about the pH level...

And why are you relying on filter media to lower or raise pH? IMO, using media enriched with minerals that change water parameters is just introducing hidden variables in the equation.

The link above also contains a video showing sintered glass media somehow raising 2-3 points of pH! Is this even possible with such media?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I use expensive bio-media so naturally, I think that it is worth it. 🙄 I use this:http://aquario.co.kr/neoMedia/neoMediaPremium.php?ckattempt=1 and I purchased too much so I will not be replacing it soon.

Now you've got it, I definitely wouldn't replace it. It looks a pretty reasonable media and should <"last for all of eternity">

There are a lot of good media out there, the ones that I won't use are the plastic ones.

I'm happy that <"plastic floating cell media work">, my issue would be the "unnecessary plastics" argument.

Personally I'm not going to buy any more plastic media, although I'd guess the stuff I have will last me until I give up fish-keeping or die.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The link above also contains a video showing sintered glass media somehow raising 2-3 points of pH! Is this even possible with such media?

It could well be true and, at the same time, totally, totally irrelevant.

It is back to the nature of the pH scale, it is <"both log10 and a ratio">. This means that, in water with <"little buffering">, you can <"get huge pH swings"> from minuscule changes in water chemistry.

If you want to demonstrate this you can start with a litre of RO water, and then add a neutral salt (usually NaCl), the conductivity will rise, but the pH will remain constant. The reason for the NaCl addition is just because pH meters struggle in <"low-ionic strength solutions">.

At this point <"any addition of a base">, even a very small <"amount of a weak base">, will cause the pH to rise.

I had an interesting one today. I won't tell you the location, or context, but it was a pond and the water sample had a dissolved oxygen level of 180% (~20oC, 18mg/L DO) and a pH value of pH 10.5.

If you take the video at face value, the sintered glass material may have added a very small amount of bases (to an un-buffered solution), causing a rise in pH. True but totally meaningless, in terms of the tank chemistry, when it is in use as a filter medium.

cheers Darrel

 

[Driftless]

Why are you concerned with pH regulation in first place? If your pH is not under control then you should identify the root cause. Moreover, unless you own very specific fish or plants, the inhabitants of the tank will simply not care about the pH level...

And why are you relying on filter media to lower or raise pH? IMO, using media enriched with minerals that change water parameters is just introducing hidden variables in the equation.

The link above also contains a video showing sintered glass media somehow raising 2-3 points of pH! Is this even possible with such media?

View attachment 178460

My interest in pH is for my discus tanks our water is hard and comes out with a high pH. When I was in the market for media this one appealed to me and it was available from one of the online stores that I shop from, nothing more than that.

 

[arcturus]

My interest in pH is for my discus tanks our water is hard and comes out with a high pH.

Afaik, discus require slightly acidic soft water, which is the opposite of what you have. So, I assume you are already somehow controlling the GH/KH and pH in the tank. That is why I asked why do you use filter media that changes the water parameters... doesn't this complicate the matter even further?

 

[Driftless]

Afaik, discus require slightly acidic soft water, which is the opposite of what you have. So, I assume you are already somehow controlling the GH/KH and pH in the tank. That is why I asked why do you use filter media that changes the water parameters... doesn't this complicate the matter even further?

No, not really. I simply needed media and I was in the process of overthinking the purchase. The discus are in heavily planted tanks and I don't modify the water. The tanks are in my office and they are time-consuming enough and adding an RO system, etc., adds a level of complexity that I can't justify. Luckily the Discus do fine, like angelfish the ones that come from breeders are less water parameter sensitive. Here are some pictures that I took recently, these are Discus that are new to the tank. You will see a sponge filter but I run two filters on this tank a canister and a sponge filter. I used to run two canister filters on this tank but I like the flow better with this arrangement. There is some algae on the Val that needs to be cut off, I don't get wound up about algae in my Discus and Angelfish tanks like I do in my "Aquascaped" tank. That tank had a trim yesterday.

 

[Aqua sobriquet]

I have Siporax in one filter and Substrat Pro in another and they don’t seem to effect the hardness. As far as I’m aware they’re both just made from sintered glass?

 

[Aqua sobriquet]

The Neo media looks interesting but I’m not sure what you’d receive. One picture shows shaped pellets with an increased surface area, the other just plan pill shaped pellets?

 

[Nont]

I’m a bit confused on this subject; what’s the point of adding bio media if all the surface and plant are often enough to
turn Ammonia and Nitrite to 0?

The only reason I’m using bio media in a filter is that I don’t like cleaning sponges.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I’m a bit confused on this subject; what’s the point of adding bio media if all the surface and plant are often enough to
turn Ammonia and Nitrite to 0?

It is really just to give you spare capacity (<"belt and braces">), and to remove a <"single point of failure">.

We are going to have <"some flow">, so you might as well pass that oxygen rich water through a sponge or other bio-media.

cheers Darrel

 

[jaypeecee]

I’m a bit confused on this subject; what’s the point of adding bio media if all the surface and plant are often enough to
turn Ammonia and Nitrite to 0?

Hi @EchinodorusScape

In my opinion, you have raised an important question. It is also very relevant to consider the potential nitrate accumulation in the tank. The normal way of dealing with this is reliance on water changes. Within the next couple of weeks or so, I plan to start a new thread on an alternative approach.

JPC

 

[jaypeecee]

I selected this media because of the effect that it claims on ph, although I have not seen a difference.

Hi @Driftless

Is it possible that the manufacturers of your media were referring to the pH reduction that is a natural outcome of the nitrification process? And, you should be able to measure this pH change with a pH meter, for example.

JPC

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

It is also very relevant to consider the potential nitrate accumulation in the tank.

This where you could get issues, if you had a <"very high livestock to plant ratio">. Assuming you have a reasonable stocking density? The plants are going to <"incorporate all types of fixed nitrogen"> and nitrate accumulation doesn't occur.

Is it possible that the manufacturers of your media were referring to the pH reduction that is a natural outcome of the nitrification process?

I selected this media because of the effect that it claims on ph, although I have not seen a difference.

The link above also contains a video showing sintered glass media somehow raising 2-3 points of pH! Is this even possible with such media?

My guess is that it is the Siporax "problem" in reverse, and that the <""Neo" media"> has a marginal proton (H+) ion donor surplus. Is it relevant? and does it mean the filter media will buffer hard water to soft? Not in a million years.



The <"technical data sheet"> actually contains a break-down of its composition.

Basically, it is <"baked clay">, with the clay an <"Illite"> type clay mineral. I'd guess it is acidic because it doesn't contain any calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg) or sodium (Na) or much potassium (K).

cheers Darrel

 

[Driftless]

Hi @Driftless

Is it possible that the manufacturers of your media were referring to the pH reduction that is a natural outcome of the nitrification process? And, you should be able to measure this pH change with a pH meter, for example.

JPC

The media has been in my filters for a while now and I don't have a baseline before I added it, again I was overthinking the purchase.

 

[jaypeecee]

Assuming you have a reasonable stocking density? The plants are going to <"incorporate all types of fixed nitrogen"> and nitrate accumulation doesn't occur.

Hi @dw1305

Perhaps you could shed some light (!) on the following statement made by Diana Walstad in her book, Ecology of the Planted Aquarium:

"the majority of aquatic plants - given a choice - greatly prefer ammonium. This fact is critical to fish health and aquarium functioning".

If you'd prefer not to comment on the above, that's fair enough. I could always put the question directly to Ms Walstad on the forum where she is one of the Moderators.

I'm just keen to get a better understanding of this.

JPC