IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The ASG fertilizer kit seems to be missing out on the magnesium then?

Yes. They are aiming at the USA market, where a lot of tap water is both hard and rich in both calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg). This isn't true of the water in the UK (soft or hard), which doesn't normally contain <"much magnesium">.

How does this fertilizer claim to be the better than the rest?

There are <"lies, damn lies...."> and the <"advertising blurb"> of <"Aquarium fertiliser"> companies. The ASG video isn't terrible, it is a mixture of the good, the bad and the ugly really.

To be clear, potassium is not a substitute for magnesium. As @MrClockOff has said, there’s little magnesium in uk water. As you’re using RO, you need to add all 14 required ions for your plants to grow. That includes magnesium and potassium.

That one.

I know I'm confused but I found this decision, please see attached

"All in one" fertiliser mixes don't normally include calcium (Ca), mainly because it forms a <"lot of insoluble compounds">. Unscrupulous vendors will try and tell you (and sell you) a separate remineralising mix that <"isn't a fertiliser">, but the calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) you add with calcium chloride (CaCl2.nH20) and magnesium sulphate (MgSO4.7H2O) are both. have a look at @Happi's <"Solufeed 2:1:4 and Solufeed Sodium Free TEC or Solufeed Coir TEC Combination">.

In the UK, if you have hard tap water, you can add calcium and carbonate hardness (dKH) <"via your tap water"> in a ratio of 1 dGH : 1 dKH. Magnesium you can add via <"Epsom Salts"> (~ 10% Mg).

If you want to <"add dGH, but not dKH">, you can use calcium chloride or calcium sulphate (CaSO4.2H20), although calcium sulphate has very limited solubility.

cheers Darrel

 

[Happi]

This mix is substituting magnesium sulphate for potassium sulphate in the NPK mix

Magnesium cannot be replaced by potassium, both elements are needed by plants. we often add Magnesium in dry form during GH boosting.

ASG is saying using the extra potassium is very beneficial and makes this fertilizer unique.

that is another trick to convince you to buy that product. if true, you can simply do this by any salt that contain Potassium. to be honest with you, that extra K2SO4 they add is totally unnecessary.

A lot of UK fertilizer recipes use the standard
Macro Solution?
4tsp Potassium Nitrate
1tsp Potassium Phosphate
6tsp Magnesium Sulphate
( I get contains no potassium)
Why aren't UK Ferts recipes using potassium sulphate if it's so good?

Just trying to understand the reasoning
Just thinking of trying it out

If US can't get hold of magnesium sulphate
Why aren't we switching to potassium sulphate instead if that is so much better as an alternative in the recipe?

it depends on each company, but most fertilizer companies follow certain methods/approach when selling their products, this such company may focus on EI, PPS etc. to base their Products/Salts. Potassium Sulfate itself isn't anything specials, for example (click here): I often use it, depending on which set of fertilizer I use. if I want to avoid too much sulfur in my water, I skip K2SO4 and switch to KCL, KNO3, KHCO3 etc, if I want to avoid Chloride, CO3 etc., I then switch to KNO3. while they all provide Potassium, but it truly depends on my goals and reasoning why I choose one or the other. most commonly I use K2SO4 when I want to base my Nitrogen Fertilizer that is free from NO3 and focuses on Ammonium based nitrogen.
Magnesium is usually added during GH boosting especially those who use RO water. it is wise the add Calcium and Magnesium during this process and just focus on dosing the NPK, Micro/Fe through solutions. since UK tap water may be low or lacking Magnesium, it is wise to add it in dry form during water changes. I hope this all make sense?



They are using highly convincing strategies to make people buy this product. first of all "Science-Backed Formula" is a false statement to begin with.

their kit Include the following:

Micros:
CSM+B

Macros:
KNO3
K2SO4
KH2PO4

so there is nothing special about this kit, I consider CSM+B to be interior product. you can find most of these chemicals somewhere else at cheaper price which will last you forever, Darrel has shared the link with you and most UK members are switching or looking into "Solufeed 2:1:4 and Solufeed Sodium Free TEC or Solufeed Coir TEC Combination" or TNC Complete Recipe
if you go through the link, you may find some recipes that include DTPA Fe for those with harder water, something you will not find in CSM+B.

 

[Neil6]

Magnesium cannot be replaced by potassium, both elements are needed by plants. we often add Magnesium in dry form during GH boosting.

that is another trick to convince you to buy that product. if true, you can simply do this by any salt that contain Potassium. to be honest with you, that extra K2SO4 they add is totally unnecessary.



it depends on each company, but most fertilizer companies follow certain methods/approach when selling their products, this such company may focus on EI, PPS etc. to base their Products/Salts. Potassium Sulfate itself isn't anything specials, for example (click here): I often use it, depending on which set of fertilizer I use. if I want to avoid too much sulfur in my water, I skip K2SO4 and switch to KCL, KNO3, KHCO3 etc, if I want to avoid Chloride, CO3 etc., I then switch to KNO3. while they all provide Potassium, but it truly depends on my goals and reasoning why I choose one or the other. most commonly I use K2SO4 when I want to base my Nitrogen Fertilizer that is free from NO3 and focuses on Ammonium based nitrogen.
Magnesium is usually added during GH boosting especially those who use RO water. it is wise the add Calcium and Magnesium during this process and just focus on dosing the NPK, Micro/Fe through solutions. since UK tap water may be low or lacking Magnesium, it is wise to add it in dry form during water changes. I hope this all make sense?

View attachment 222111

They are using highly convincing strategies to make people buy this product. first of all "Science-Backed Formula" is a false statement to begin with.

their kit Include the following:

Micros:
CSM+B

Macros:
KNO3
K2SO4
KH2PO4

so there is nothing special about this kit, I consider CSM+B to be interior product. you can find most of these chemicals somewhere else at cheaper price which will last you forever, Darrel has shared the link with you and most UK members are switching or looking into "Solufeed 2:1:4 and Solufeed Sodium Free TEC or Solufeed Coir TEC Combination" or TNC Complete Recipe
if you go through the link, you may find some recipes that include DTPA Fe for those with harder water, something you will not find in CSM+B.

I'm using solufeeds sodium free TEC for my trace mix already.
Wow, I'm doing something right!
My only concern is if I need to be worried about the copper content with my shrimp?

No need to change my NPK mix then?
magnesium sulphate mgso4 6tsp
potassium nitrate KNO3 4tsp
potassium phosphate kh2po4 2tsp
Do I add any K2SO4 potassium sulphate or anything else? if so what do you recommend and what ratio?.....or is everyone's mix a closely regarded top secret?🫣🤫

I'm currently reminiscing my 50%water change with Seachem Equilibrium ( I have a lot of rocks so KH is okay) will use the calculator to clone💪👍

Thanks for enlightenment, it's starting to be less foggy😁
Thankyou all!
Best regards
Neil

 

[hypnogogia]

I'm currently reminiscing my 50%water change with Seachem Equilibrium ( I have a lot of rocks so KH is okay) will use the calculator to clone

AFAIK Seachem Equilibrium contains a lot of potassium, so you’re probably overdosing that. Your plan to use your own salts to remineralise is a good idea. You can use magnesium sulphate and calcium sulphate for GH, and a little bit of potassium carbonate for KH. Alternatively, you can just add a splash of tap water.

 

[tejasn324]

What if I need to mix the compounds separately? how do I do it in the excel? Is it only for all in one ferts?

 

[Aqua sobriquet]

How many of you use Excel? I ask as I haven’t used it since I left work, don’t have it on my Mac and don’t know many that use it. Apart from one, they all use one of the Open Office packages. Does this calculator work with OO?

 

[Hanuman]

Does this calculator work with OO?

Unfortunatly it does not work with OO. 🙏

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Apart from one, they all use one of the Open Office packages

I can send you a <"basic spreadsheet"> that should work in Open Office.

It just links to the periodic table (in the first sheet), The advantage is that you can use it for any chemical compound, the disadvantage is that there is a little more "legwork" involved.

For most compounds of interest the <"Rotala (butterfly) nutrient calculator"> should work, it is a halfway house between DIY and the all singing, all dancing IFC sheet.

@Zeus. and @Hanuman have taken all the fun out of this, by providing a spreadsheet that provides all the answers at the click of the button. They have removed all the mystery and totally deskilled potion making, it is an absolute disgrace and they should be very pleased with themselves.

"Four and half billion years in the making, based on star-dust, endorsed by Gods and brought to you straight from Mount Olympus......."

The IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator

cheers Darrel

 

[TheGreatScape]

Hi all, I'm trying to make a 'clone' of APT/Zero for lean dosing. My tank is mostly epiphytes (ferns, anubias, crypts*), while my other tank is Monte Carlo, with various rotalas (macarandra, h'ra, wallichi. I am running CO2 in all tanks along with the ADA Amazonia substrate (except for my 180l, which uses JBL Manado + API Root Tabs). All along, I've been using APT Zero, but it was off and on (didn't know much about ferts), so growth hasn't been very impressive as you would expect. After learning more about ferts and how much it would actually cost if I were to use it properly according to the guidelines, I figured DIY is my best option as I'm already paying $26/300mL.

I have 3 tanks:
1 x 180l - Epipythes & Crypts (A bit heavily stocked with fish, including Discus which are fed frozen foods daily, likely adding a bunch of stuff to the water column)
1 x 20l - Just a pygmy Cory's, more plant-heavy
1 x 60l - About 10 cardinal tetras + a lot of plants

Currently, I'm thinking of making a clone of APT Zero (this seems ideal for the 180l so that I can skip adding Nitrates since the tank is highly stocked) and APT Complete (to use for the other 2 tanks). I'm willing to consider alternative routines if you have something better I could follow.

I was thinking of buying my ingredients from NilocG. However, I'm not sure what to get because the IFC calculator doesn't have an option like CSM+B, so I don't understand how to enter this one. I would really appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction regarding which items to get. I don't mind getting it from a UK or US supplier as I would need to freight forward it to my country anyway. It would be best if everything could be bought from 1 place as it would make it easier for shipping.

 

[Zeus.]

I was thinking of buying my ingredients from NilocG. However, I'm not sure what to get because the IFC calculator doesn't have an option like CSM+B

You just missed it 😉

we added many a trace element

Most of the CSM-B are very similar in composition so little differences between them all
If you go into 'DIYtraceCalculator' you can compare the trace side of all the AIO ferts and CSM-B traces,

With the dry trace salts we compared them by adding the same mass to a given volume of water, Whilst the AIO trace side was per standard dose. If your using the 'TargetCalculator' the mass will be slightly different for each trace salt mix as its targets the Fe ppm your after.

The trace side of APT zero apart from Fe is unknown to us and doesnt show on the bottle, @Hanuman did manage to get some info out of Dennis but that was just the [Mg] of the APT products- so a true clone of APT products isn't possible, however the trace side isn't going to be far off with any CSM-B product and just target the same weekly[Fe]. As with all ferts as long as they present in abundance your plants will use them, and regular WC prevent and build up of nutrients.

 

[TheGreatScape]

View attachment 223761
You just missed it 😉

we added many a trace element
View attachment 223762
Most of the CSM-B are very similar in composition so little differences between them all
If you go into 'DIYtraceCalculator' you can compare the trace side of all the AIO ferts and CSM-B traces,
View attachment 223763
With the dry trace salts we compared them by adding the same mass to a given volume of water, Whilst the AIO trace side was per standard dose. If your using the 'TargetCalculator' the mass will be slightly different for each trace salt mix as its targets the Fe ppm your after.

The trace side of APT zero apart from Fe is unknown to us and doesnt show on the bottle, @Hanuman did manage to get some info out of Dennis but that was just the [Mg] of the APT products- so a true clone of APT products isn't possible, however the trace side isn't going to be far off with any CSM-B product and just target the same weekly[Fe]. As with all ferts as long as they present in abundance your plants will use them, and regular WC prevent and build up of nutrients.

Hi Zeus, thank you so much for pointing that out. Great to see the CSM is there, that makes things a lot easier.

I picked APT not due to any particular reason. When used the way I used it, it doesn't work wonders 😅 I wasn't very keen on burning $26+/Mo so I used to add it maybe once or twice per week. After adding CO2 I learnt this isn't going to work out as the plants couldn't manage with so less nutrients.

To remedy the issue temporarily, I just made a mix of a APT 0 clone minus the Fe & traces using some KCl (sodium free salt) and Epson salt which I was able to source quickly.

I don't mind exploring alternative routes. As long as they work for Anubias, Crypts and the Rotalas. It's only for 1 of my tank where I most likely do not need any Nitrogen or Phosphate due to heavy stocking of fish. Something lean to cover the heavy potassium requirements for epiphytes should do the trick here. I think something like API Leaf Zone could work too which is basically just Potassium and Fe.

For the other tanks I can play around a bit more with proper AIO's.

I was aware of APT Zero have traces not disclosed but I figured CSM+B will likely cover those, just maybe not at the exact %. It'll likely still be enough to cover the needs of the plants though.

 

[Zeus.]

All commercial ferts/AIO are based in recipes that have been around for long time, with each product having slight tweaks/differences.

So if your after tweaking what you have been using Just set the targets slightly higher/lower and the IFC will do all the maths. We added the compare next to the target selection for this very reason
Pic below an example of a slight tweak on APT zero, it is also taking into account Mg and Ca in the tap water before the calculations


Here in the UK our tap water is generally a little low in Mg, here the reason we add extra Mg, but in parts of the USA there is no need to add Mg to the tap water

I was aware of APT Zero have traces not disclosed but I figured CSM+B will likely cover those, just maybe not at the exact %. It'll likely still be enough to cover the needs of the plants though.

 

[TheGreatScape]

All commercial ferts/AIO are based in recipes that have been around for long time, with each product having slight tweaks/differences.

So if your after tweaking what you have been using Just set the targets slightly higher/lower and the IFC will do all the maths. We added the compare next to the target selection for this very reason
Pic below an example of a slight tweak on APT zero, it is also taking into account Mg and Ca in the tap water before the calculations
View attachment 223765

Here in the UK our tap water is generally a little low in Mg, here the reason we add extra Mg, but in parts of the USA there is no need to add Mg to the tap water

How important is it to account for the Ca & Mg in tap water? All I know about my tap water in my country is that the pH is around 5-6 and is always safe to drink. That being said, they have ranges for acceptability. I know with nitrate I need to be a bit careful as my 1 tank is heavily stocked and always has nitrates even without using any ferts. To combat this I'm going to add more plants but only once I get the current plants to start thriving. My setup was decent using very little ferts and no CO2 but after adding CO2 and not using any ferts, I have killed quite a bit of jumbo anubias which I had been growing for years along with bushes of Java ferns and bolbitis😀

I'm going to get an order placed from Niloc for the CSM+B and K2SO4 & KNO3. I think with these 3 I should be able to do both APT 0 (Lean dosing for heavily stocked tank) and APT 3 Compelte (For lighter stocked tank). KCl I can get locally from health stores, but I hear Chloride can be an issue in high quantities. Potassium Sorbate I will need to find locally, as couriers mark this as a flight hazard due to its flammability.

Any other ingredient you suggest I buy & keep on hand in case I may need it?

 

[TheGreatScape]

Quick question: Does it make any difference what Potassium Sulfate you use? I found 2 different brands offering this product.
PRODUCT 1 COMPOSITION
K : 425 g/kg (42.5%)
S : 170 g/kg (17.0%)

or a different brand which is
PRODUCT 2 COMPOSITION
Soluble Potash(K2O) 52%
Sulfur(S) 18%

 

[hypnogogia]

neither. You want K2SO4.

APC Pure | Product | Potassium Sulphate 97.5% - 99.9%

APC Pure is a leading chemical and reagent manufacturer

apcpure.com

 

[TheGreatScape]

neither. You want K2SO4.

APC Pure | Product | Potassium Sulphate 97.5% - 99.9%

APC Pure is a leading chemical and reagent manufacturer

apcpure.com

The values I pulled from are K2SO4 from NilocG and another supplier. I see Green Leaf Aquarium's K2SO4 also has a similar analysis:

K2SO4 Guaranteed Analysis:

• K2SO4 0-0-52
• Soluble Potash (K2O) - 52%
• Sulfur (S) - 18%

Will using these mess up the calculations since some suppliers have K2SO4 with a guaranteed analysis of 42.5% K and 17.0% S while others have 52% K and 18% S

 

[hypnogogia]

The values I pulled from are K2SO4 from NilocG and another supplier. I see Green Leaf Aquarium's K2SO4 also has a similar analysis:

K2SO4 Guaranteed Analysis:

• K2SO4 0-0-52
• Soluble Potash (K2O) - 52%
• Sulfur (S) - 18%

Will using these mess up the calculations since some suppliers have K2SO4 with a guaranteed analysis of 42.5% K and 17.0% S while others have 52% K and 18% S

I’m genuinely surprised that the ratio of potassium to sulphur can be different in a chemically bonded chemical. Also, they don’t state the purity of the product. Given your percentages, I’m left wondering what else is in there…anti caking agent presumably. Perhaps some of the chemists on the forum can shed some light on this, @Andy Pierce ?

 

[Zeus.]

How important is it to account for the Ca & Mg in tap water?

Well my tap water had 120ppm Ca and 5ppm Mg when i did Olympus is Calling so there should be no excuse for any Ca:Mg ratio in some ways, but softer water and Ca:Mg ratio of 3.0:1.0 and easier in many ways.

My setup was decent using very little ferts and no CO2 but after adding CO2 and not using any ferts, I have killed quite a bit of jumbo anubias which I had been growing for years along with bushes of Java ferns and bolbitis

you plants was CO2 limited and had enough ferts and plants was fine as they are use to low CO2 levels or adapted to them, as soon as you Inject CO2 the demand for ferts is higher as ferts wasnt in abundance as the higher CO2 levels was driving growth so suffered from lack of nutrition IMO

Any other ingredient you suggest I buy & keep on hand in case I may need it?

May need some epsom salts if the Mg is low in tap water

The values I pulled from are K2SO4 from NilocG and another supplier. I see Green Leaf Aquarium's K2SO4 also has a similar analysis:

K2SO4 Guaranteed Analysis:

• K2SO4 0-0-52
• Soluble Potash (K2O) - 52%
• Sulfur (S) - 18%

Will using these mess up the calculations since some suppliers have K2SO4 with a guaranteed analysis of 42.5% K and 17.0% S while others have 52% K and 18% S

I’m genuinely surprised that the ratio of potassium to sulphur can be different in a chemically bonded chemical. Also, they don’t state the purity of the product. Given your percentages, I’m left wondering what else is in there…anti caking agent presumably.

Yes, supplier of ferts use the cheapest of products/salts which make sense, so all depends what they can get their hands on and many use Soluble Potash with varying impurities, when we did the IFC calculations many products used Potash which needed a modifications to formula's/code to get the actual ppm K etc

Pure salts enables you to know what you are actually putting in your tank, where as inpure salts means you don't really know what your putting in - do your pants care - well as long as the impurities are not harmful -no

but I hear Chloride can be an issue in high quantities

As can many, if not all elements/compounds - just needs a little common sense IMO

 

[Andy Pierce]

I’m genuinely surprised that the ratio of potassium to sulphur can be different in a chemically bonded chemical. Also, they don’t state the purity of the product. Given your percentages, I’m left wondering what else is in there…anti caking agent presumably. Perhaps some of the chemists on the forum can shed some light on this, @Andy Pierce ?

I think the differences reflect differing purity of the material: https://www.ipipotash.org/uploads/udocs/Chap-1_potash_production.pdf

 

[TheGreatScape]

Yes, supplier of ferts use the cheapest of products/salts which make sense, so all depends what they can get their hands on and many use Soluble Potash with varying impurities, when we did the IFC calculations many products used Potash which needed a modifications to formula's/code to get the actual ppm K etc

Pure salts enables you to know what you are actually putting in your tank, where as inpure salts means you don't really know what your putting in - do your pants care - well as long as the impurities are not harmful -no

I see. So ideally, I should be looking for whichever supplier can offer me the highest % of K. So far, GLA and NilocG both offer this 52% K and 18% S mix. I will check with some horticulture/industrial farming supply dealers. Locally, I was able to find a few of these farming places that sell K2SO4 in bulk. If I don't use K2SO4 then my next best would be KCl. The health store that sells this lists it as 100% Potassium Chloride. Unlike with K2SO4, they don't list the % K and Cl.

As can many, if not all elements/compounds - just needs a little common sense IMO

Yeah, that seems true here. From my understanding, Chloride ions introduced into the aquarium do not break down or get consumed significantly by organisms; therefore, if one skips on water changes and dosing for weeks, eventually, the buildup will go to dangerous levels. In a 100-liter aquarium, adding 10 mg/L of potassium via KCl weekly would introduce 16 mg/L of chloride each time. Over 10 weeks, chloride could accumulate to an additional 160 mg/L, potentially surpassing safe levels.

This shouldn't really be too much on an issue as I WC weekly but ideally, if I can find a decent quality K2SO4, I would rather opt for that.