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Journal Freds new pond build

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nice one Marcel just like yourself. i aint no doc. but if i can save a living creature. and stop it hurting. then i will
good to hear you cleared up the trichodina. sorry to here some of the fish went blind. was that through the medication or the
trichodina its self. and what species of fish was this. where they tropical fish.
if you look at that chart and code it shows for koi red star = PP the blue = Chloramine T and another blue = dimilin
in th koi fish this is what kills Trichodina.also states in the book. do not dose any chemicals below 55 f /13 c
nice one zozo good to have some one else experience added to the pages
 
Well for me you definitvely are a little bit Dr. Fred.. ;)

Yes mine are tropical, little very small 15mm corydoras pygmaeus.. They are so small and wiggly fast bottom dwelling fish that it's difficult to spot when something is wrong. If skin damage gets obvious than it already is in severe stadium. I noticed after a few days that some of them had a grey eye. And probably the stress of beeing moved again to a complete new invironment accelerated the sympthoms and a day later again spotted a few with an excess of mucus excretion on their skinn. Saw one dying and looking at that one with a microscope i found trichodinas. It all added up with the mucus and going blind, obviously if a trichodina ends up in the eye it destroyes it.

Went back to the lfs to look at the rest and also found a few there looking like missing an eye.. So the Trichodina came from the lfs.

The first i tried was a med from Sera (Liquid praziquantel).. But the product description said 24 hour treatment and a repeat 7 days later. this didn't help very much. And putting alcohol in the tank also didn't do it very good. Than @sciencefiction adviced me to contact Dr. Fiona Mcdonald a UK fish vet. And i wrote her an e-mail, she replied with the solution, i bought a bag of her own developed "fluke solve" powder based prazi, she said just use it for 14 days long. I did and all got better again. Trichodina is to tuff for a short term treatment with repeatment, and this Fluke Solve product can be used for long term 14 day treatment without ill effects and this also kills the later hatched eggs. :)
 
nice one Marcel. touch wood i have not had this yet. i have had skin flukes. i have just googled it. and there are over 200 species of trichodina
Amazing. also luckily for my side of things it is easy to eradicate. and mostly in the koi world it is secondary infections that end up killing koi carp.
IE they batter them self s that much against anything to get it off themselves. causing stress and ulcer damage.
thanks for info mate. i like it because it helps being put down on the thread. because people can see it learn of it for all types of fish.
not just koi.
all the very best for 2018 mate. Fred.
 
Thats what i used to kill my koi s flukes . fluke solve. it can be used in colder temperatures. i used it last winter
2 x doses. and turned UVs off.
 
DECISION TREE CHART> LEADING TO DIAGNOSIS OF KOI DISEASE

upload_2017-12-31_7-58-8-png.png

The decision chart is there to guide you. if in doubt get professional help
i personally find it a good guide and tool to use
 
NEW POND SYNDROME OR N.P.S.

N P S Or NEW SETUPS. is where a lot of the bad stuff
starts is the water right before adding our loving creatures
How many creatures do we add at once.
Is the tank or pond perfect for our fish and water creatures. IE filters, pumps. air. Light. UV. and most important the toilet system
there are lots of things that i have probably missed out here. as we all have different setups. some have tropical fish. some shrimps
some wild life pond. some mechanical pond. i can go on and on. BUT at the end of the day the setup has to be right

As a few on this great site know of me. i had a pond built last year. i have a thread on the build from start to finish. also i documented stuff that happens as i went along
i had NEW POND SYNDROME I lost a few fish. and saved a few. what i am leading to. is i made mistakes. some time s i had no choice. like when i added all my fish in one go. No choice as my holding tank ripped. so near on 45 fish
went into the new pond. filters where not mature enough for this. should have added fish two at a time say every 10 days.

next mistake. cement leeching. my pond is fibre glassed. so i thought they where safe. how wrong i was. my pond brick work runs a few layers above the fibre glass. when it rained it leeched into pond. how i spotted this problem
it laid in my waste chute in the rotary drum. burnt my fish. causing ulcers. i put this right by adding pond sealant on the brick work in upper pond and lower pond.

another mistake. i trickle water in and out of my pond. reason for my drum. and pumps. water level has to be bob on. also it does a 10% water change slowly each week.
which i run it through a 3 stage dechlorination it was not taking the chlorine fully out. result burning the fish and killing them. put right by adding ST every 3 days.

Another mistake. was oxygen. i was putting to much air into my pond. i use air for the fish. and also to push crap to my skimmer. which is a surface cleaner. i have a spin drifter dome on my bottom drain
which moves around and keeps the crap moving. i had this to high. sorted now. by turning it down. also on a timer.

It took me 6 month s to get all these problems sorted. first off. you aint got a clue what it is. trial and error. by eliminating certain things, plus luck.

Also it took 15 months for my pond and filters to mature. on some ponds it can take 2 years. remember the pond is also a large filter. so if you clean it out with scrubbing or water pressure blasting.
your knocking the good BIO down .

I have put some of my mistakes in there to show that we think we have the perfect pond . no matter how much money we have thrown at the build and setup. and believe me i spent a lot of money on my pond
and still had big problems. i hope you learn some thing or do not make my mistakes. because it breaks your heart when you lose one of your loving creatures.

At the end of the day. where not fish keepers. WE ARE WATER KEEPERS
have a great NEW YEAR all the best fred
 
INFORMATION AND LEARNING OFF OTHERS

Here is a conversation i had with ZOZO Marcel. so i pasted it other to here.

Yes mine are tropical, little very small 15mm corydoras pygmaeus.. They are so small and wiggly fast bottom dwelling fish that it's difficult to spot when something is wrong. If skin damage gets obvious than it already is in severe stadium. I noticed after a few days that some of them had a grey eye. And probably the stress of beeing moved again to a complete new invironment accelerated the sympthoms and a day later again spotted a few with an excess of mucus excretion on their skinn. Saw one dying and looking at that one with a microscope i found trichodinas. It all added up with the mucus and going blind, obviously if a trichodina ends up in the eye it destroyes it.

Went back to the lfs to look at the rest and also found a few there looking like missing an eye.. So the Trichodina came from the lfs.

The first i tried was a med from Sera (Liquid praziquantel).. But the product description said 24 hour treatment and a repeat 7 days later. this didn't help very much. And putting alcohol in the tank also didn't do it very good. Than @sciencefiction adviced me to contact Dr. Fiona Mcdonald a UK fish vet. And i wrote her an e-mail, she replied with the solution, i bought a bag of her own developed "fluke solve" powder based prazi, she said just use it for 14 days long. I did and all got better again. Trichodina is to tuff for a short term treatment with repeatment, and this Fluke Solve product can be used for long term 14 day treatment without ill effects and this also kills the later hatched eggs. :)

Through this conversation with ZOZO Marcel. i learnt a wee bit more. as it made me use google. i found out that there are over 200 species of trichodina. which amazed me. Also that site Dr. Fiona Mcdonald a UK fish vet was very
informative. so i now have another site to learn off. through a conversation with a forum member and a friend.

A OVERVIEW OF WATER QUALITY

As i have said on lot s of occasions in this thread we are water keepers first and foremost
upload_2018-1-2_7-11-45-png.png


When i first seen this picture above. i was belly laughing. i thought it was funny.
but lets be serious here. its not far off the truth that is going on in any fish populated environment be it a pond or
Aquarium fish tank or gold fish bowl. That is inadequately maintained or poorly filtered.

fish live in a totally different environment to us humans. in fundamental terms they draw life giving oxygen from water.
through the gill. with a process known as osmosis and diffusion.
we can walk away from pollutants in the air. when we sense it,
Fish cannot. they are enclosed in a pond or a tank. so this is where we humans come in to play.
By helping to maintain the fishes environment.

water quality has very little to do with water clarity. it is all to do with with the absence of deadly pollutants and the presence of good bacterial minerals and oxygen.

The biggest pollutant to our system is food. fish excrete Ammonia. through the gill. and also the urinary and faeces discharge systems into ammonia then we have a problem.
because if we don t help the fish. the water starts to go TOXIC

SO HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS


we deal with it through getting a good filtration system put into place. enough to deal with the amount of fish in the space of there environment .
In a koi pond filter system. the Pump is the heart. and the lungs is the biological filtration stage.
when you analyse most systems two distinct functions are under taken by a filter system

Firstly mechanical removal of Particulate material waste
Secondly fish toxic water pollutant removal.

so in reality we could be considered a water re usage system. simply put. take dirty water from the pond and put clean water back

how we do this in the koi pond. we use micro screens. sieves. vortexes and bio media. they come in all shapes and sizes.
some for debris removing. some for biomass colonisation. i have both. the biomass is the good bacteria . we help to make.
it forms on the filter media like plastic pieces. in my case moving K1 which is moved with air pump.after my auto drum 58 micron screens thats where they wait.
so in a nutshell my drum cleans first then the very fine pass through. and get to second stage plastic media. which then colonise this and en mass this.
it took my filter systems 15 months to mature. and that was after reusing my old plastic K1 media. if it had been brand new. probably would have took two and a half years
plus we add oxygen via air pumps
 
BIO MASS AND BENEFITS

the biomass en-mass the media we prefair to use IE plastic media. wool. and grog rock. and i can go on and on
Remember this is the good bacteria
for the system to work properly the water from the pond must pass over the media. with enough contact time. with the bacteria to be able to remove the
pollutants in the water water contact time can become a key factor in filter design .
some factors to consider to help good bacteria to colonise

carbonate alkalinity of pond water. temperature of pond water . contact time of pond water in filter. dissolved oxygen. Organic matter in water.available food nutrients [ the pollutants ] amount of media surface for bacteria to colonise
above are a few factors that influence the effectiveness of the vital filter bacteria to remove the pollutants .

the bacteria multiply by binary fission and will slowly expand to deal with all load levels of harmful ammonia and nitrite.
remember colonies of biomass will fall back in such times as winter when it gets colder. or temps drop so there efficiency reduces. in removing pollutants

most quality issues result because the filter bacteria are not instant workers. and the pollutant load is greater then the active colony of filter bugs at that given time.
so to help them. feed nice and slow to start with. increasing slowly as you go along. we all go oooohh my poor fish they look hungry. and bang to much food.
believe me i have done this.

I hope some of the above medical and water side of things benefit you. that was the idea. some on here have more knowledge then me with fish keeping of shrimps
and tropical fish. i love looking at pictures and reading up on how the tanks are planted. like i say some very knowledgeable people
my thing is koi and koi ponds. me personally . i used to think. my water looks crystal gin rin clear. perfect. how wrong i was. after studying the make up of a koi pond and what makes things right.
there is a saying. and it is. what is right for you. maybe not right for another. So you obviously do what is best for you and your setup. my pond is exactly where i want it to be right now. maybe that will change in time
like if i alter a pump or filter. i have learned that fish don t like change. i have experimented with this with thing s like slowing my water flow. speeding water flow up. turning air up turning air flow down.
they react with such as flashing. because there starting to stress.
like i say. i hope the thread helps some people out. That was the idea. to help people in not making some mistakes i made. also to try and give a little confidence in having a go at saving a poorly fish.
18 months a go. i had never done things like putting a fish to sleep. or cleaning and treating wounds. a mate shown me. and taught me. i am now very confident. in doing this.
Also the reason i wanted to learn was in my case. i went to two vets. and they did nt know anything about fish.
all it is. in my opinion is being taught how to do it. and the more you practice the better you get. my first time i was scared. then when i seen the results. i felt like i had won the lottery.
so like i say. i want to pass it on. so people can learn and have a go if there stuck with a dieing fish pet.
all the very best for 2018. and happy fish keeping. and be lucky.
Fred
 
My First ever Pond Build

I first Got a Pond built because my son wanted to keep Tadpoles. So I dug a small hole in the ground went out with him caught some Tadpoles. Thought no more of it.

A few months later. I rubbed my dogs belly. And it was in a lot of pain. Yes you guessed it. Unfiltered water it the hole in the ground. Of to the vets. Well it nearly died.

So I built my first pond.

So first dig the hole notice the clay
upload_2018-1-6_12-13-7.png

And barrow by hand.
upload_2018-1-6_12-14-8.png

Time for a helping hand.
upload_2018-1-6_12-14-49.png


upload_2018-1-6_12-15-12.png

Long shot picture of garden
upload_2018-1-6_12-16-1.png
 
Notice how the garden is getting concreted. Coming down the garden

It was 4 inch concrete. Done with a tile chess board affect. Dyed every other square with red dye in

The cement. M y wife did this. I laboured.

Also packed the dig with soft sand and a bought underlay. Then put the liner in butyl rubber liner

And put the water in. Notice my first ever filter. Green box on the left.

Replace this after 6 months with a 5 bay filter
upload_2018-1-6_12-17-22.png

One of the water fall. Built up with clay. Another piece of liner on top and a pre

Moulded water fall. Did the job. Then put rocks around this
upload_2018-1-6_12-18-6.png

2 photos of finished pond Concreting finished.

Deck light installed and black cobbles cemented in for affect.
upload_2018-1-6_12-18-55.png

Long shot picture of the garden finished
upload_2018-1-6_12-19-39.png
 
First fish I bought. Gold fish. Tench and orfs. Still got the tench
Maturing the pond from November until april

Then buy some koi carp.
upload_2018-1-6_12-21-43.png

Waterfall all boxed in with rocks
upload_2018-1-6_12-24-30.png

Had the filter change to easy pods two of these. They did the job for

10 years.

Then had a new pond built last year. So from this to this
 
Hi Fred,

Wonder if you can help. My 15 year old Koi is in trouble, dying in fact. He has been upside down on the floor of the pond for two days. I tried to take him out as I thought he was dead but he's not - yet, he managed to swim away and then back on his back at the bottom, lifeless. I feel it's only a matter of time. I half emptied the pond and re-filled to the top. I'm not sure what to do about this if anything. Do I just wait until he passes? I hope it's nothing I've done and it's pretty cold in London at the moment so I think he has no chance.
 
Hi Fred,

Wonder if you can help. My 15 year old Koi is in trouble, dying in fact. He has been upside down on the floor of the pond for two days. I tried to take him out as I thought he was dead but he's not - yet, he managed to swim away and then back on his back at the bottom, lifeless. I feel it's only a matter of time. I half emptied the pond and re-filled to the top. I'm not sure what to do about this if anything. Do I just wait until he passes? I hope it's nothing I've done and it's pretty cold in London at the moment so I think he has no chance.

hi Georgia . sorry to hear of your koi problem. It sounds like a swim bladder problem. or internal Bacterial. or dropsy .Remember i am not a vet.but to eliminate a few things

what set up do you have. filters air pumps. pumps. Quarantine tank.
what is temperature of the pond.
are you still feeding below 8c.
how much air going into the pond.
have you tested the water for ammonia, nitrite, PH, Nitrate. KH. GH.
Do you trickle in and out. when you did a water change did you use dechorinate solution like say ST
did you test your water for chlorine. say with DP4 tablets.
Have you got a microscope to scrape the fish and look for infection
are any more fish acting strange.
the fish swimming upside down is its scales raised like pine cone. if so that is a sign of dropsy

a few things you could try are
if you have a tank or bowl. measure how much water you put in and heat the water. slowly. use the pond water. and bring the heat up 2 degrees a day until 23 c. But a tan aquarium heater. it s own immune repair system will kick in then.
add some salt in the water. at 0.3 for a couple of days. see how that goes. then up the salt to 0.6. a day in that. then start diluting back down to 0 % percent. by say 10% water changing
same for adding bring it up slowly. see if that helps the fish. remember though when water changing 2 degree maximum in temperature every 24 hours either up or down. you can kill a fish with to much change in temp change

also something i have read here try this peas out the freezer. https://blog.thepondguy.com/tag/swim-bladder/



Peas to the Rescue

The best treatment for swim bladder disease is found in your refrigerator or freezer. Frozen or cooked peas, will blast through the impaction and reduce the pressure on the fish’s swim bladder. If your fish starts floating sideways, we recommend you stop feeding them for a few days and then hand feed peas to help clear up any blockages.

Medicating fish in outdoor ponds with cooler temperatures really is not an option, as the medications won’t work – so stick with the fasting-plus-peas remedy.

If one of your fish is really stressed, a salt bath could help – but you will need to dissolve the salt in an indoor holding tank filled with warm 78 to 80ºF water. Keep in mind that when you transfer your fish from the cooler 40°-50°F outdoor water to the warmer treatment tank, that temperature change can easily shock the fish. It should be avoided.

Pond Talk: Have you ever had to treat one of your pond fish for swim bladder disease? If so, what did you do?

hope this helps mate. i know there are a lot of Questions there mate. but that s how you try and find out what the problem is. by slowly eliminating them
i am sorry to say this . but i do not think it has much chance. BUT YOU HAVE TO TRY. hope it works out for you. if i can help. just ask away.
all the best fred
 
Thanks a lot Fred, you are right, I think he is too far gone. He's so big he won't last long in a big bucket of any kind, bath maybe but is it worth stressing him out with little prospect? I've answered your questions in bold:
what set up do you have. filters air pumps. pumps. Quarantine tank. PUmp and Filter
what is temperature of the pond. Proably about 5 degrees
are you still feeding below 8c. No
how much air going into the pond. None additionally - I've half covered the pond with a polycarbonate sheet for winter
have you tested the water for ammonia, nitrite, PH, Nitrate. KH. GH. Nope, but always been OK
Do you trickle in and out. when you did a water change did you use dechorinate solution like say ST Nope – removed about a/5thof water and refilled – yes to treating water
did you test your water for chlorine. say with DP4 tablets. No
Have you got a microscope to scrape the fish and look for infection. No
are any more fish acting strange. . No
the fish swimming upside down is its scales raised like pine cone. if so that is a sign of dropsy. No

a few things you could try are
if you have a tank or bowl. measure how much water you put in and heat the water. slowly. use the pond water. and bring the heat up 2 degrees a day until 23 c. But a tan aquarium heater. it s own immune repair system will kick in then. Not sure we can really add some salt in the water. at 0.3 for a couple of days. see how that goes. then up the salt to 0.6. a day in that. then start diluting back down to 0 % percent. by say 10% water changing
same for adding bring it up slowly. see if that helps the fish. remember though when water changing 2 degree maximum in temperature every 24 hours either up or down. you can kill a fish with to much change in temp change.
 
Thanks a lot Fred, you are right, I think he is too far gone. He's so big he won't last long in a big bucket of any kind, bath maybe but is it worth stressing him out with little prospect? I've answered your questions in bold:
what set up do you have. filters air pumps. pumps. Quarantine tank. PUmp and Filter
what is temperature of the pond. Proably about 5 degrees
are you still feeding below 8c. No
how much air going into the pond. None additionally - I've half covered the pond with a polycarbonate sheet for winter
have you tested the water for ammonia, nitrite, PH, Nitrate. KH. GH. Nope, but always been OK
Do you trickle in and out. when you did a water change did you use dechorinate solution like say ST Nope – removed about a/5thof water and refilled – yes to treating water
did you test your water for chlorine. say with DP4 tablets. No
Have you got a microscope to scrape the fish and look for infection. No
are any more fish acting strange. . No
the fish swimming upside down is its scales raised like pine cone. if so that is a sign of dropsy. No

a few things you could try are
if you have a tank or bowl. measure how much water you put in and heat the water. slowly. use the pond water. and bring the heat up 2 degrees a day until 23 c. But a tan aquarium heater. it s own immune repair system will kick in then. Not sure we can really add some salt in the water. at 0.3 for a couple of days. see how that goes. then up the salt to 0.6. a day in that. then start diluting back down to 0 % percent. by say 10% water changing
same for adding bring it up slowly. see if that helps the fish. remember though when water changing 2 degree maximum in temperature every 24 hours either up or down. you can kill a fish with to much change in temp change.

By adding salt i meant in a large enough bowl. or QT and heating that. salt is good for them for a few days. if you read my thread. i had them in salt at 0.6 for a month. in 500 gallon quarantine tank grow on
to heal my fish. its also good for stress. But once mine started to heal. with skinning over ulcer wounds. i took it all out.

also some fish react if there is a massive swing in PH ammonia or Nitrite. ammonia can affect the insides like swim bladder.

if it is as bad as you think it is. maybe your better off putting him to sleep. i have Kusuri Masuizai Koi Sedate. for if i have to knock the fish out to work on wounds. if i up the dose it would put it to sleep for ever
if you don t have this. you could nip to the chemist and buy some cloves oil. i have used this to work on fish. i know it is hard to do georgie. but some times you have to be cruel to be kind.


or you could just leave it. but it might be in a lot of pain. up to you mate. me myself i would put it to sleep if i could nt help it. hard decision i know.
sorry mate. it is hard i know. i have had to do it. take care and good luck with what you decide on.

I test my pond water every other day in my pond. and every day in my QT grow on. For PH Ammonia. Nitrite. and once a week for KH and GH plus for chlorine once a week. all of it should be tested at least once a week minimum.
especially with koi keeping. but each to there own. not having a go. if you have ammonia or nitrite spike. if you don t test often. this will turn toxic and damage the koi.
if you want details how to do this. just email me at fred85148@msn.com

take care fred
 
Hi Fred, I got him in to a bucket and hand fed him the peas, he is still very much alive, just can't swim, he let off wind when he came out of the pond. Just floated back to the bottom upside down when he went back in. If no improvement I'll consider the clove oil tomorrow.
 
If there's anyone in London who wants to take him and nurse him back to health with the right conditions let me know! I don't think there's anything else I can do.
 
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