Search results for query: duckweed index

Well, I've really been wanting to do amazon frogbit for this reason, I totally understand the rationale so co2 is not a factor and i can really read deficiencies. My only hesitation is about adding another maintenance task to my routine, skimming and disposing of floaters. As for iron, I believe...

Hi all, The aerial advantage was the main reason for using a floating plant for the "Duckweed Index". Once you've taken CO2 (and light) out of the equation, that only leaves the mineral nutrients. You can divide the mineral nutrients into those that are mobile within the plant (the majority)...

...inorganic carbon (C) if none of the <"mineral nutrients are deficient">. That was why <"Estimative Index"> was developed. The <"Duckweed Index"> also makes use of elevated CO2 levels, but in this case <"atmospheric, rather than added"> <"Global Monitoring Laboratory - Carbon Cycle...

Hi all, On a monitor, rather than the phone, and I think you might be right. I'm using a <"hybrid Duckweed Index"> approach now where I add a small amount of iron (Fe) and magnesium (Mg) even when the plants aren't showing obvious deficiency symptoms. Have a look at <"Plant deficiencies and...

Hi all, <"Bolbitis heudelotii">? It will pretty much <"grow in the dark">. I'd dose at 1/4 or lower or use the <"Duckweed Index">. cheers Darrel

Hi all, It has a <"number of advantages">, so Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum) is definitely my preferred "Duckweed". I'm <"obviously biased">, but it works. The only real revision I've made since I swapped from Lesser Duckweed (Lemna minor) is that I've been using a <"hybrid version">...

Many thanks Many thanks Darrel, I do think I should give the duckweed index a good go as the more I've looked into it it makes sense. Would you say amazon frogbit is the best one to use for this?? I will stick with the tap water then and let the aquasoil do its thing for now. Many thanks Matt

...These sorts of questions were partially why I went to using the <"Duckweed Index">, it means that you don't need to try and figure out if your substrate is exhausted etc. You just watch <"the Amazon Frogbit">, and feed it when it looks a bit pale <"The scientific background to the "Leaf...

Should be fine 😊 Amazon frogbit is highly recommended for "duckweed index" purposes, as the leaf is not covered in any fine hairs like some of the other floating plants, so that makes them "easy to read" the color of :thumbup: Some more candidates: Salvinia: fuzzy hairs on the top of the...

It indeed is a sexy plant, what I love the most is it growing emerged too on damp substrates if given the change. The Wabi Kusa potential. But according to my current Azolla index that now and then thinning out is once a week. Never seen a plant grow this fast and I thought duckweed was a pain...

Amazing thank you, most of them I was already looking at so it’s great to see what they look like once they’ve started growing in.. what substrate is that youve used? I cant get over the plants, I’ve never been good at keeping plants alive but im hoping aquatic ones will be more successful!

...of it for my other tank Hornwort (floating - just crammed it in) Salvinia and frog bit to diffuse the light and because I find the duckweed index easy to understand as a beginner (its literally everywhere) Bolbitis heudelotii stuck to stuff Java fern again stuck to stuff Anubia coin also...

With regards to the plants you’ve mentioned darrel, would they be suitable for a 50l with lid for a betta? im hoping to do a soil substrate as seems the most natural and logical from a plant nutrition stand point from what I’ve managed to understand from the varied online information. like the...

Thanks for that's Darrel it's a very interesting idea and also very cheap. I see the issue would be getting the sparkling water into the tank at the same time daily 🤔🤔

...I like, at least some , of my plants to have access to atmospheric gases, but I've done this by using a <"floating plant"> for the <"Duckweed Index">. I just think a <"floating (or emergent) plant"> gives you the advantages of access to higher CO2 levels, but without the risk to your...

Hi Darrel, It would be great to have a good sticky post from you that we can refer to when discussing nutrient deficiencies and recommending the Duckweed Index. I suppose you could compile a good writeup from your numerous posts on the topic. Cheers, Michael

Hi all, I still haven't written a proper "Duckweed Index" post, but this might be the catalyst*. *Edit I have now (Dec. 2023) - <"What is the “Duckweed Index” all about?"> cheers Darrel

They could and should - Darrel (or someone else on the UKAPS team) should send them a link to the best explainer post he has written on the topic. Cheers, Michael

Tropica could reference UKAPS and the Duckweed Index

...would need to be a physical (tangible) embodiment - say if you originally would have developed the Leaf Color Chart to accompany the Duckweed index to identify nutrient deficiencies then it likely could have been patentable and trademarked. Luckily for us here on UKAPS that didn't happen as...

...I'm obviously not an <"objective viewer">. Agreed, that is usually what interests me, much more than growth rate. If people use the Duckweed Index I'm pleased, it doesn't make me any wealthier, but it definitely <"makes me happier"> and I think it gives the non-expert planted tank keeper a...

That is very nice Darrel. I am a big fan of the Duckweed index as you know. "When the nutrient level in the water decreases, it will grow much slower which makes it a great indicator of the available nutrients." In my experience (and opinion), the Duckweed index is not really about speed of...

@dw1305 You should be mentioned as the author of the Duckweed Index , hopefully they won't claim an ownership of this idea like many companies do. Hey Microsoft and Google! I'm talking about you, you greedy f.ckers.

Hi all, All right, so the title might be <"slight hyperbole">, but the <"Tropica "Amazon Frogbit" (Limnobium laevigatum) page"> says: cheers Darrel

Hi all, We have a thread <"Solufeed 2:1:4 and Solufeed Sodium Free TEC Combination">. Which I think all three of us contributed to? Personally I'm still using the <"tip & slosh method"> and <"hybrid duckweed index"> approach. cheers Darrel

...have been in the tank for a while and still aren't rooted? That would suggest that conditions aren't really that suitable for plant growth. That is partially why I like a floating plant for the <"Duckweed Index">, it takes substrate, light and CO2 availability out of the equation. cheers Darrel

...was now water from Haweswater etc. So a vigorous shake might make a difference? That was another of the <"reasons for developing"> the <"Duckweed Index">, you aren't reliant on test kits (or bacteria that you can't see), you just make your decisions <"based on what you can see">. cheers Darrel

Hi all, Access to atmospheric CO2 was the main reason for using a floating plant for the "Duckweed Index". Any green, submerged plant should show the same deficiency symptoms, but you have the <"extra confounding"> <"factors of CO2 (and light) availability">. I'm seriously considering...

@Davey For Fe DTPA you could use the ready made TNC Iron TNC IronAT | The Nutrient Company I have a 60 litre tank, and find this lasts me a long time. For FeEDDHA I bought this Iron Plus B . As it's a powder and we have small tanks, you will need to make it up into a liquid, and then dose it...

...what I will be doing now apart from how much and often I should dose the chelated iron. I'll use the solufeed as and when, based on the duckweed index. This will save me the hassle of cloning the tropica ferts. And rainwater + tap for water changes. Your expertise I highly appreciated. Dave

...and then let them warm up in the house. I use small regular volume water change, <"so it suits my routine">. I look on <"Daphnia etc"> in the water butt <"as a positive">. Personally I'd buy some <"Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4"> and just add a splash when the <"Duckweed Index"> tells me to. cheers Darrel

Thanks @dw1305 Darrel Where could I get a chelated iron suitable for harder water? I read the thread you linked and you discuss a few varieties of chelated iron but I'm not sure which one is most suited for harder water. With point 2, do you recommend I use the IFC calc to clone tropica...

...just ignore the water report and <"use a standard fertiliser">. You could cut your tap water with <"rainwater or RO">. You could add fertiliser via the <"Duckweed Index"> Personally, as it is a small tank, I'd use 2, 3 & 4, with 3. being mainly rainwater (if you have a water butt?) cheers...

I think i am going to insert in the tank some limnobium :) As far as FE, i can purchase easily Seachem Iron or Easy Life Ferro What do you think? Maybe Easy life is more tailored regarding my pH 7? Thanks Cris

Hi all, Generally iron availability is much less of an issue in water with lower alkalinity. Because iron (Fe) is a bit of a <"two edged sword">, you could easily tip into iron toxicity in acidic, reducing conditions . Yes, a floating plant will take up all nutrients and act as a nutrient...

...instant <"greening / growth response">. But the non-mobile nutrients <"are more problematic"> and I've started using a <"hybrid Duckweed Index"> approach, where I add iron (Fe) on a regular (but <"fairly ad hoc.">) basis. The advantage of this is that it allows me to always use the growth...

...pretty healthy. Have a look at @jameson_uk (with <"traditional apologies">) two Amazon Frogbit threads <"Frogbit taken a turn"> & <"Duckweed Index says Nitrogen please?">. I use Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum) as my <"nutrient "canary">, but this <"maybe of interest">. I probably...

Anything special about frogbit/duckweed ? I have a heavily planted shrimp grow out tank with no substrate and just RO water (with some GH booster only) which shows deficiencies in the submerged plants while the floaters are thriving. It almost makes me think floaters are feeding off dying...

Hi all, I think failed to add my ad hoc. hybrid <"Duckweed Index"> dosing, and by the time I'd noticed the Amazon Frogbit was already struggling (this is the sequence <"Frogbit taken a turn">). I added some ferts. but the Frogbit is only just recovering. It effected the Pistia less, but...

Hi all, I've just found <"an old thread"> (from 2017) which suggests I may have been sublimely thinking about <"monetising the Duckweed Index"> for a lot longer than I had realised. From 2017 Now how to get the genie back in the bottle? Possibly <"Secret Ingredient Soup">? cheers Darrel

...a <"mix designed for hydroponics">, with a small additional dose of <"magnesium (Mg) and iron (Fe)">. You can either use <"some fraction of EI dosing"> or you can use plant health (ideally of a floating plant) to assess nutrient status. I use the latter, via the <"Duckweed Index">. cheers...

Hi all, I'm pretty sure I have, but I can't remember the context (and I can't find it anywhere). edit: Got it it was this one <"Micronutrient toxicity.. or deficiency.. ? Pls help."> . and this was what happened. I was wondering about nitrogen (N), and then @Happi chipped in, which has...

Hi all, That was one of the main reasons for using a floating plant in the <"Duckweed Index">. A floating plant always had access to <"atmospheric CO2">, and that takes <"CO2 deficiency out of the equation">. Clive (@ceg4048 ) is convinced that most deficiency symptoms relate to <"lack of...

...Index" was that you could use spoons as your measuring device and that it did a way with the need for water testing. The <"Duckweed Index" had the same rationale"> , you don't need to accurately measure weights or volumes and the plants act as your "test kit" That is why I would use <"the...

...and I don't know where the "extra" nutrients came from (I'm a rainwater user). Same for me, give them a trim and then start adding a <"complete fertiliser">. In terms of <"how much to dose"> you could use <"some fraction of EI dosing"> (1/4?) or you could use the <"Duckweed Index">. cheers...

...of NO3 containing compounds">. It was partially the inherent difficulties in nitrate testing that led <"to the development"> of the <"Duckweed Index">. It might, possibly, be denitrification in the substrate, I think it is unlikely, but plausible <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton -...

...in a plant with red leaves. Potentially a mixture of Limnobium laevigatum and Phyllanthus fluitans might be the optimal mix for the <"Duckweed Index">? But I would need to keep Phyllanthus alive long enough to find out. I'm going to guess at higher nutrient levels Limnobium <"is always...

...to know, I might <"have another go with it">. Other people have actually suggested it as <"an alternative plant"> for an improved "Duckweed Index". You might be interested in my experience with <"Azolla">, where I had the brilliant idea of the students squashing the red plants to extract...

...I don't add a set amount of nutrients. I use the <"leaf colour"> and <"growth rate of a floating plant"> (not <"CO2 limited">) as my <"proxy for nutrient content">. I called it the <"Duckweed Index">, but my <"Duckweed"> of choice is now <"Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum)">. cheers...

...(NO3-) it would be 0.3g of Solufeed 2:1:4 in every 10 litres of tank water. I don't add a set amount of fertiliser, I use the <"Duckweed Index"> and <"occasional slosh method">, but I should <"really do better">. I might start with 20 ppm and <"see how you get on">. I just use a <"splash...

Hi all, I'm going to say, Poor (or at least more impecunious than you could be) but happy and <"on the right side of history">.;) cheers Darrel

I'm strictly low tech using pre made AIO ferts and the duckweed index. Not sure what fertiliser camp that puts me in!

...finding">. Have a look at @jameson_uk (with <"traditional apologies">) two Amazon Frogbit threads <"Frogbit taken a turn"> & <"Duckweed Index says Nitrogen please?">. The only one I know of where new leaf chlorosis wasn't caused by lack of available iron was @Hufsa , where the cause <"was...

Hi all, I think you can definitely try a bit more. I'll add in @Zeus. If don't see any appreciable <"growth or greening">? The nitrogen is <"probably not your issue">. cheers Darrel

Thanks, Darrel. The Hydrocotyle is flying at the moment, but will keep an eye out. Thanks, @Happi. Will keep doing what I'm doing for now then. Like what out of interest? From a learning POV. The only thing I've noticed is the plant attached is growing leaves more lime green than the older...

Hi all, Yes, they look good, <"CO2 and / or more nutrients">. It isn't a plant I've grown, but I'm going to assume the "Sunset" name applies to the reddish colouring. No not really, they look fine. Just keep an eye on the leaves of the Hydrocotyle, if they become smaller and / or paler. If...

Hi all, I'm pleased it has worked for you. I'm (<"probably absurdly">) proud of it, and, my ego and I, are going to have a much <"happier afternoon now">. The only exception we've found to the "pale new leaves = iron deficiency" is in @Hufsa's case. Her plants turned out to be <"manganese...

Hi all, I've been thinking about this, mainly in light of a more complete understanding of the Maize (Zea mays) photo, and because "Amazon Frogbit" (Limnobium laevigatum) is <"also a monocotyledon">. I think that the mode of leaf formation in monocots is actually the reason for the...

Helferi is a good example as it kindly grows a nicely visible ‘set’ of new leaves, so I guess what I’m getting at is - We see differences in leaf sets but we don’t see half a leaf that is green right!, There is not a leaf that starts out deficient and then becomes non deficient so whatever we...

...be an issue with the test kit. The difficulties of <"accurately testing for nitrate"> (NO3-) were one of the drivers for the development of the <"Duckweed Index">, where you use the <"leaf colour and growth"> of a floating plant (non-CO2 limited) as a <"proxy for nutrient levels">. cheers Darrel

Hi all, Assuming that this really is iron (Fe) deficiency in Pogostemon helferi, and I think it probably is, then @Zeus. 's <"Future of Aquascaping"> image shows that it really is a very sharp divide between "available" and "non-available". Here is another one <"Solufeed 2:1:4 and Solufeed...

It’s a fair point Darrel and I’ll run as long as I need to, to get valid results. I’m curious your thoughts on when is a new leaf not a new leaf? If a ‘young’ leaf is still developing, can you expect to see an improvement in that leaf ‘health’ in event that a non-mobile deficient nutrient...

...enough to see healthy new leaves grow. That was one of the reasons for originally using <"Lesser Duckweed (Lemna minor)"> in the <"Duckweed Index",> it has a very rapid turn-over of new leaves, meaning that it shows a very flexible response to increased nutrients and / or when a nutrient...

Interestingly, I do have one crypt 'cryptocoryne undulatus red' that is doing fairly well. I would doubt this, I actually have only (fairly) recently added the frogbit. The issues long pre-date the addition of them, and haven't gotten worse either. I only added them from wanting to try out...

...with CO2 and that is <"why I don't (and won't) use it">. I'll add @REDSTEVEO he is/was? a Discus keeper. That is why I like the <"Duckweed Index">, you get feedback on nutrient status from the plants. I've never kept Discus, but I've talked a bit with <"Larry Waybright"> and he is a...

Hi all, Welcome to UKAPS. A full tank shot of your aquarium would be very useful, as it will allow members to <"assess plant growth"> (and potentially <"plant health">). I see you live in Ilfracombe, <"would rain water be an option for you">? I use it and you should get a lot of very clean...

...use of the extra CO2 if none of the mineral nutrients are missing. That was one of the reasons for choosing a floating plant for the <"Duckweed Index">, they have the <"aerial advantage">, access to the atmospheric <"419 ppm CO2"> and this takes CO2 availability out of the equation. It might...

Hi all, That was one of the reasons for using a floating plant for the <"Duckweed Index">, because they don't have access to the substrate they show you the nutrient status of the water column. I think that is true <"Another microbial paper, this time looking at aquaponics and iron...

...but don't have a "target value" as such. You can use the plants to deplete the nitrate (NO3-) in the tap water and then use the <"Duckweed Index"> as an indication of when to add more fertiliser. Any of the plant nutrients can be <"Liebig's limiting nutrient">, but as long as all <"fourteen...

...gives an indication of iron availability <"at the time of its formation">, and that is <"an indelible mark">. You can still use the <"Duckweed Index"> to diagnose <"iron deficiencies"> (what do they look like now? @tam ?), but ideally you want the plants <"not to be iron deficient">, because...

...it was just an easily obtainable hydroponics mix, that didn't include any ammonia (NH3/NH4+) I'm not an EI user (I use the <"Duckweed Index">), but I think that would be about right. You could buy all the <"micronutrients as separate salts"> (like @Happi and @X3NiTH have done), but most...

...it will help to explain my thought process so you can tell me if I'm on the wrong or right track so to speak)... So, I mainly use the duckweed index now but, did some selective testing today as I wanted to see how things were going on water change day as I'm balancing the tank still and...

...but subsequently the new leaves paled slightly. I didn't think too much more about it , but since then I've carried on with the <"hybrid Duckweed Index"> approach (that I used when I was using the Miracle-Gro) and the Frogbit plants look back to healthy again. * for @Hufsa cheers Darrel

Hi all, Yes, that is how it works, plants can shuffle mobile nutrients from older to newer leaves, and real deficiency symptoms only occur when the plant has really run out entirely. Yes and no, you can get a situation where a non-mobile nutrient is unavailable for a limited time period, <"and...

Hi Darrel, I'm wondering what "turned up to eleven plant" means !??! I'm sure it's pretty simple to understand but I'm lost with the translation and the links didn't help (obvious I don't speak english very well). May you please explain in few words ?

...remade too, I spread it out over two days which made it more managable :) I was on the fence about what to do for a long time, but the duckweed index has once again helped guide the way. For those who said it was a CO2 issue, suck my take a look at these pictures :lol: As you can see...

...I've grown unfortunately, but I can see from the images it naturally has pale new leaves. Just keep an eye on them, if they look very pale (rather than just pale pink) or get noticeably paler then it maybe an iron (Fe) issue. Have a look at <"Duckweed Index says Nitrogen please?">. cheers...

...in growth form that Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum) can exhibit. That is one of the real advantages of L. laevigatum for the <"Duckweed Index">, it has the potential to get very large, very quickly, but isn't a <"turned up to eleven"> plant like Eichornia crassipes (or, to some...

Yes, I definitely see the value in inferential techniques(had to look up the definition lol). The more I learn from you and others, the more I see the reason you chose your methods. Also, the more I adopt them myself. Darn it, I thought those College level Chemistry & Biology courses would be...

...not too bothered about diagnosing exactly what is missing, you have a lot of possibilities. That is one of the advantages of the "Duckweed Index", <"the plants can't lie">, if they are green and growing, they have everything they need. If they aren't? They don't. If you like <"they are your...

...testing(aside from Ammonia & Nitrite on these new tanks to keep the wildlife safe). I am really liking your suggested "plant reading" /Duckweed Index system much better and have been using it. I can't help but, long for numbers sometimes still though lol. It's just so hard for a technical guy...

Thank you Michael for that comprehensive response 😊 Interesting stuff, particularly regarding those longer gaps between micro doses………..would it work ok in a hard water tank I wonder or perhaps Fe may still be needed at greater frequency 🤔 but I won’t hijack the Ops thread any more so I’ll...

...if I am starting to get into trouble is by looking at the health of my plants - floating plants in particular (I am big fan of the duckweed index). If I see deficiencies I just crank up the dosing a bit - That has only happened a couple of times in half a year or so. Easy. So why am I doing...

I reckon the splosh camp is not at all a bad place to be. Full on duckweed index fan here and figuring out what works based on observation is ultimately the road to success. I think my high tech would kick my butt using this technique mind (you’d have to be real quick off ur feet with your...

...nutrients <"The scientific background to the "Leaf Colour Chart"">, it just removes <"most of the guesswork">. The idea behind the <"Duckweed Index"> was that you could use the <"growth and leaf colour of a floating plant"> as an indication of when to add nutrients. I've used it for ~20...

Thanks will take a look at them. Looks like CO2 may not be as high as once thought. Here are the readings so far in the day, 8:00 am pH 7.4 CO2 Turns on 9:00 am pH 6.85 10:00 am pH 6.68 10:30 am pH 6.61 Lights on

...is <"no longer limiting growth">, that will be green. That was one reason I originally used Lemna minor ("Duckweed") for the <"Duckweed Index"> (I now prefer <"Amazon Frogbit"> (Limnobium laevigatum)), it has a <"very quick turn-over of leaves">. You might be interested in <"MG/FE...

..."probably put me on to the Diana Walsted book, and the work of the Fertiliser chaps @Zeus. and company and as mentioned above the" Duckweed Index "was big learning curve. Always read how members try to get to the question why? as regards algae plant growth, lighting etc @jaypeecee and...

...If you are worried about the tank not being "cycled" just add <"some fast growing plants">. I'm a <"floating plant obsessive">, but any <"floated stem"> would do. It was partially the <"difficulties in nitrate testing"> (NO3-) that led to the development of the <"Duckweed Index">. cheers...

...of keeping aquatic plants: I always bow down to the experimenters Weekly nutrient consumption in planted aquarium and to the inventors (it's a search through the UKAPS, not direct link to the particular thread) Duckweed index PS: I'm sorry for the sand only substrate mafia but two means two.

...how much is in the soil ... but you can see the plants, so when they look hungry, dose more. This is the foundation of the @dw1305 duckweed index anyways. Let the plants have an abundance of EVERYTHING and let them decide what they want. Let them turn pretty colors. Let them change the...

Also forgot to mention that I have a venturi valve on the skimmer, so I wonder if the bubbles could be impacting the salvina growth?

Thanks Darrel! There are 4 nerites and around 7 amano shrimp in the tank but they can't compete with how quickly it spreads. I've considered ramshorn snails but am concerned about how quickly they'll breed given the amount of the stuff that keeps growing. Interesting you mention the salvinia...

...you have a floating plant (which I'm going to guess is Salvinia) and you can use a floating plant (not CO2 or light limited) as an indication of when to add nutrients (have a look for <"Duckweed Index">) & have a look at <"Brown fuzzy algae, unhealthy plants and dosing questions">. cheers Darrel

...successful <"long term tank maintenance">, but also that they <"weren't things you could easily quantify">, so the method I used (the "Duckweed Index") needed be a "recipe" to follow, that wasn't too complicated and <"worked in (nearly) all circumstances">. The hope was always that, once the...

Hi all, Perfect, that is partially why I prefer <"watching the plants"> to adding a set amount of fertiliser on a regular basis. I probably would let it spread a bit, it is a great nitrogen sink as @PARAGUAY says, and <"this is the why">: This is what it looks like, if you <"feed it...

Hi Darrel, That's a serious price saving for sure!! I'm currently spending about £15 for 2 months on TNC!! So are you saying my tank would just need the 12g per week of Solufeed and that would cover all nutrients needed ?? Seems too good to be true lol Many thanks Matt

...would last you the best part of 18 months at ~£0.20 a week. It is honestly a no brainer. Yes, "low tech". If you want to use the <"Duckweed Index">? you just watch the leaf growth and colour of a floating plant (originally "Duckweed", Lemna minor), now ideally Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium...

Hi @KirstyF and @MichaelJ Thanks both for your input I appreciate it, it's all very confusing but I'm sure I will get my head round it. I do like the thought of going down the dry salt route but also the solufeed does sound good. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind?? -do you make...

...use the IFC calculator but Darrels not steering you far wrong here! (IMO) 😊 Once you’ve got ur eye in, you may even want to use the duckweed index, aka, ‘dose when your plants tell you they need it’ Either way, with a tank that size, you definitely want to move over to dry salts. I’m...