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Fluval Stratum & Caribsea Eco-Complete?

Fair enough. I've no idea how difficult it is to buy generic osmocote over in Canada.

I don't doubt for a second APT jazz isn't a good product, I just find it a bit of mickey take that it costs $20 for 18 tabs.
Oh, I can easily get Osmocote or Osmocote Plus. I just wanted to stick to an aquarium specific product that won't cause my tank to be filled with packing peanuts when I swap and replant plants, cause possible massive ammonia spikes due to its much higher macros, or possibly kill or harm some of my wildlife due to high levels of copper or other things in the case of O Plus.

Aquarium specific root tabs are hard to get here and expensive. Even Seachem ones are $15.99CAD for 10 at PetSmart and just under a buck a piece off Amazon and they are super weak compared to APT J. But, I haven't bought any APT J yet so if a better deal comes up I am definitely open to it as I too think they are way overpriced. I have been watching for NilocG's Root Tabs to come back into stock for a reasonable price too as they went to $90 for 60 which is ridiculous too. It was probably a bad time for me to get into this hobby with supply chain issues and all the other stuff but, I'm all in now and am going to make it happen...
 
Hi all,

That is the thing I struggle with, you need some <"pretty inventive advertising"> to persuade people that is a feasible price, and you need to be entirely amoral to actually try it. I'm going to be very wary of any company that does this, they have basically lost my trust and I'm pretty sure <"they aren't helping themselves">, or our hobby, in the long term. You can <"sell a product"> without trying to rip-off everybody in sight.
Yes, I really don't understand Dennis's pricing on this product but, maybe there is something we aren't aware of? If it is indeed made of biochar maybe that or the infusion process drives the price up?
@FISHnLAB this is another really good point, <"you can apply what you know"> (sceptical thinking) from <"other parts of your life to aquarium products">. That is all I do, I say "does the bit I understand make sense?" and if it doesn't? I assume the rest of it is all snake oil as well.
Yes, very important to scrutinize things in this hobby I am learning. Especially when you are on a budget.
Yes, I may try this eventually but, am going to root Tab infuse my first high tech setup.
I'd recommend a horticultural fertiliser, I'm not sure what you can get in Canada, but there will be one. Have a look at <"Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4">.

cheers Darrel
Thanks. I will look into it. Any issues with too fast of a release in an aquatic environment?
 
Hi all,
maybe there is something we aren't aware of? If it is indeed made of biochar maybe that or the infusion process drives the price up?
Not really, "Biochar" is a bit of a buzz term, but the definition is "the solid material obtained from the thermochemical conversion of biomass in an oxygen-limited environment" which just means it is <"charcoal and ash">, which doesn't sound quite so sexy or exclusive. Biochar / Charcoal does have some Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC), just how much <"depends on a number of factors">. From Munera-Echeverri, J. et al. (2018) "Cation exchange capacity of biochar: An urgent method modification" Sci Total Environ 642 pp.190-197
.......However, due to its porous structure and contents of alkaline ashes, the determination of the cation exchange capacity (CEC) is challenging. Literature values for the CEC of biochar are surprisingly variable and are often poorly reproducible, suggesting methodological problems.......The CEC values of biochar increased from 10.8 cmol/Kg carbon to 119.6 cmol/Kg carbon. These values are smaller than reported CEC values of soil organic carbon.
Which suggests a certain amount of <"smoke and mirrors is involved"> . That is really the thing with nutrients, there isn't any question about aesthetics, or added value, plants can only take up nutrients as ions, and every potassium ion (K+) is the same as every other one whether it came from "APT Jazz" or the cheapest potassium chloride (KCl) sold as "sodium free salt" .
Yes, I really don't understand Dennis's pricing on this product
Basically he is taking advantage of the fact people have some trust in him to sell them a premier priced product. If people know the facts and still want to buy his products, fair enough, but I won't be one of them, and I also think it damages his credibility.
Any issues with too fast of a release in an aquatic environment?
There definitely are potential issues.

In the case of these types of fertiliser they are entirely soluble, so all nutrients are instantly available. That is why I'm <"very wary of fertilsers containing ammonia (NH3)">. Some aquarium fertilisers contain ammonia, but they are so dilute that it is difficult to tip enough of them into the tank to kill all your livestock, this isn't an issue with dry salts, you get a lot more <"bang for your buck">.

cheers Darrel
 
My goodness, this is turning into a nightmare. Trying to source aquasoil for a descent price with free or reasonable shipping in small town Canada is not going to be easy. So, should I be looking for the regular grain sized stuff or the smaller grained/powder types if that's an option? It seams like maybe the small granule type would be easier to plant things in and retain small plants better?

Again, my current plan is coarse nylon mesh bags filled with root tab infused Caribsea Eco-Complete as filler for the back slopes with 3 inches+ of aquasoil cover throughout.
 
While I dont have any hands on experience, the powder (smaller) type is usually recommend for grip on small carpet plants etc, just as you thought. Some do a layer of standard soil below and then cap with powder either all over or in the areas small plants will be
 
While I dont have any hands on experience, the powder (smaller) type is usually recommend for grip on small carpet plants etc, just as you thought. Some do a layer of standard soil below and then cap with powder either all over or in the areas small plants will be
Hey Hufsa, thanks for the reply👍. Do you think it would be ok to do all of the fine stuff? The reason I ask is it is going to be extremely hard to find aquasoil as it is, trying to find an online store with free or reasonable shipping, a non-inflated price, and that has both powder and regular size granules in stock will likely be even harder. If it's an option I will try though.
 
Oh, another root tab question. What do you guys think of NilocG's tabs? I have just found a source for them at just over 1/3rd the price of Dennis's platinum lined ones🙄.
 
Hi all,

Not really, "Biochar" is a bit of a buzz term, but the definition is "the solid material obtained from the thermochemical conversion of biomass in an oxygen-limited environment" which just means it is <"charcoal and ash">, which doesn't sound quite so sexy or exclusive. Biochar / Charcoal does have some Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC), just how much <"depends on a number of factors">. From Munera-Echeverri, J. et al. (2018) "Cation exchange capacity of biochar: An urgent method modification" Sci Total Environ 642 pp.190-197

Which suggests a certain amount of <"smoke and mirrors is involved"> . That is really the thing with nutrients, there isn't any question about aesthetics, or added value, plants can only take up nutrients as ions, and every potassium ion (K+) is the same as every other one whether it came from "APT Jazz" or the cheapest potassium chloride (KCl) sold as "sodium free salt" .
Understood, thanks.
Basically he is taking advantage of the fact people have some trust in him to sell them a premier priced product. If people know the facts and still want to buy his products, fair enough, but I won't be one of them, and I also think it damages his credibility.
Yeah, that is sad. Maybe I will switch to NilocG or something else going forward out of principle.
There definitely are potential issues.

In the case of these types of fertiliser they are entirely soluble, so all nutrients are instantly available. That is why I'm <"very wary of fertilsers containing ammonia (NH3)">. Some aquarium fertilisers contain ammonia, but they are so dilute that it is difficult to tip enough of them into the tank to kill all your livestock, this isn't an issue with dry salts, you get a lot more <"bang for your buck">.

cheers Darrel
Roger that, thanks.

If you have time to weigh in on my posts about NilocG & the other brand of root tabs I listed, let me know what you think please👍.
 
Hi all,

They look all right. <"NA Thrive Caps Aquarium Plant Root Tabs">.

They don't have a very high nutrient content, so they would still work out relatively expensive.

cheers Darrel
Roger that but, they appear to have a higher NC then Dennis's tabs and are 1/3rd the price. That says something I think. Nilocg is also more transparent with their ingredients.

I think NilocG is a better choice for me going forward even when it comes to liquid fertilizer(unless anyone thinks I won't be successful with Thrive? ) at least until I want to start learning to mix my own. I don't think I will be buying anymore of Dennis's products going forward...
 
Hi all,
I think NilocG is a better choice for me going forward
I'd give them a go, they aren't going to do any harm.
even when it comes to liquid fertilizer(unless anyone thinks I won't be successful with Thrive? ) at least until I want to start learning to mix my own
I'd have a look at an all in one dry salt mix intended for horticulture. Something like the Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 mix <"mentioned earlier in the thread">. If you <"know the tank size"> and the chemical composition of the fertiliser (below) you can target a value for nitrogen (N) or potassium (K) and everything else should be about right.

solufeed_elemental-jpg.jpg

cheers Darrel
 
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Hi all,

I'd give them a go, they aren't going to do any harm.
Good to know, thanks.
I'd have a look at an all in one dry salt mix intended for horticulture. Something like the Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 mix <"mentioned earlier in the thread">. If you <"know the tank size"> and the chemcial composition of the fertiliser (below) you can target a value for nitrogen (N) or potassium (K) and everything else should be about right.

solufeed_elemental-jpg.jpg

cheers Darrel
I'll check it out. Seams like a good middle ground between dry salts and an AIO. Thanks👍.

Just so you know, I can easily get kits with all of the dry salts for NPK & Trace and I even have precision scales and chemistry tools already from one of my other hobbies to weigh and mix my own but, I just figured I will wait to learn ferts as I have a ton on my plate already with learning everything else to make a successful heavily planted community tank. I ran the numbers and I'm looking at about $140CAD(105EUR) for a year worth, for all of my tanks, of NilocG's Thrive and Thrive Caps as well as a bottle of Seachem Flourish NPK + Fe + Trace to be able to bump up anything thats showing signs of deficiencies. I figure one of next winters projects will be for me to fully learn how to make my own ferts and root tabs the right way.

What do you think of my plan considering I am ok with paying a premium(within reason) for a quality pre-mixed solution for the first year? Anything to add or constructively criticise?
 
Hi all,
What do you think of my plan considering I am ok with paying a premium(within reason) for a quality pre-mixed solution for the first year? Anything to add or constructively criticise?
It should be fine, an ion is an ion is an ion, the plants don't care how much they cost.

Have a look at the <"The scientific background to the "Leaf Colour Chart""> and <"Duckweed Index">. I use leaf size and colour, in a non-CO2 limited plant, as an indication of when, or whether, I need to add nutrients.

Others will add more fertiliser, this is @Parablennius 's <"Floaters"> thread <".....and yes I'm still, still suffering with Frogbit envy">.

dscf2076-jpg.jpg


cheers Darrel
 
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Hi all,

It should be fine, an ion is an ion is an ion, the plants don't care how much they cost.
Roger that. Definitely going to be mixing my own eventually.
Have a look at the <"The scientific background to the "Leaf Colour Chart""> and <"Duckweed Index">. I use leaf size and colour, in a non-CO2 limited plant, as an indication of when, or whether, I need to add nutrients.
Interesting. Where can one get one of those colour cards? Learning to read my plants for signs of deficiencies and compensate with ferts is at the top of my learning list right now.
Others will add more fertiliser, this is @Parablennius 's <"Floaters"> thread <".....and yes I'm still, still suffering with Frogbit envy">.

dscf2076-jpg.jpg


cheers Darrel
I like Frogbit too and can't wait to get some along with Red Root Floater(I'm going to get both in my plant order for my new tank build) . I'm using Salvinia Aruculata right now. How does it work as an indicator?
 
Here is what I'm looking at right now, what do you think? The leaves have gotten larger and they have also stretched out and got more leggy since startup. This Salvinia Aruculata came from a new Tropica 1-2-Grow cup. @dw1305
 

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