FISHnLAB
Member
Has anyone tried Caribsea Samurai Soil? What did you think? How does it compare to the likes of ADA, Tropica, UNS, Landen? Thanks.
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Fluval Stratum & Caribsea Eco-Complete?
- Thread starter FISHnLAB
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FISHnLAB
Member
I meant a physical copy with instructions but, thank you sir👍.
I'm going to check my Nitrate & Phosphate levels tomorrow(day 5 since water change) and hopefully I see more then zero. If not I may have to start supplementing them in addition to the AIO I'm using. It seams weird to me that I am not seeing higher levels considering the very high for tank size bioload I am running but, I'm too big of a rookie to know why😔...
To my untrained eye, my plants look on the light coloured side which would give further evidence towards low Nitrogen at a minimum.
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Ive been down this road before, earlier on when I got properly into plants. The information is confusing and conflicting and you dont know what to do. The plants always have the facts. The tank and the plants. So if your test kits are giving you weird readings and you know youre putting in nutrients, you know what your fertilizer contains, and your plants are green and growing, then you just need to disregard the tests. Since youre not running CO2 growth will be slow, which means waiting to see if things are perfectly ok or a disaster will feel like agony. Trust in the process, and give your tank time even though its really difficult sometimes 😅 (I just changed my fertilizer recipe a bit, and even with CO2 injection im finding myself sitting at the glass, waiting for the plants to grow because im impatient and I want to see if they grow better)
Hope this helps ease your mind 😊
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Its not very often I disagree with Darrel, but it strikes me that this nitrogen chart will not work for every plant, and maybe that needs to be clearly explained to avoid misunderstandings.
Some plants simply do not have the capacity to turn the deepest shades of green. You will never see Sagittaria, Tonina, or Heteranthera with 5 or 6 green color from this scale. Probably not even number 4. Its simply not how those plants look. This chart is for the rice plant specifically.
Our aquatic plants will vary greatly in their normal tone and hue of green color. So what is pale for one plant, lets say Anubias, will be normal color for the Tonina.
Rotala rotundifolia 'Green' is a bright green plant. So is Hygrophila difformis. So it wont turn dark green no matter how much you dose.
I think it would be a mistake for @FISHnLAB to interpret the chart to mean that it applies to all his plant species
FISHnLAB
Member
It does a bit but, not fully unfortunately🙁. I can't help but think my plants are getting starved of Nitrogen and Phosphorus and could be doing better if I added more(although they really aren't doing bad). I just really would feel better if testing showed proper levels of both to prove there is an excess so I know everything is uptaking all it can. With a heavily fed Betta and a super hungry Zebra Nerite pooping everywhere you would think I would have an abundance of Nitrates, at a minimum, after 7 days in a 3 gallon but, nope... Zero. Is my plant load really that high to eat it all? Confusing stuff indeed...
So, would it not make sense to up my dosage of Nitrogen and Phosphorus and see if the levels come up? Should I really just wait it out? Do my plants not look a bit light? Maybe I am reading too much into this as they are growing more everyday. Here is the Rotala Green since the last pic I posted. It's growing like a weed...
Thanks for being patient with me and being so helpful Hufsa. I'm learning everyday and enjoying it I just tend to be a bit anal/OCD sometimes with things and really am determined to do the absolute best I can.
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FISHnLAB
Member
Yes, I was thinking all of that too but it is so hard for me because I have never owned or grown any of these plants before to know what they should look like. I am stuck with forum pics and YouTube videos and am sure you know that every display shows colours differently so it is an effort in futility to try and compare lol. I'm sure everyone who decided to jump down the crazy deep rabbit hole of this hobby knows exactly how I feel lol. Hey, but I am not even the slightest bit discouraged and am enjoying the journey very much. In fact, this hobby might have gripped me more then any in years. I see tanks, aquatic plants, and aquatic animals in my life for many years go come...Its not very often I disagree with Darrel, but it strikes me that this nitrogen chart will not work for every plant, and maybe that needs to be clearly explained to avoid misunderstandings.
Some plants simply do not have the capacity to turn the deepest shades of green. You will never see Sagittaria, Tonina, or Heteranthera with 5 or 6 green color from this scale. Probably not even number 4. Its simply not how those plants look. This chart is for the rice plant specifically.
Our aquatic plants will vary greatly in their normal tone and hue of green color. So what is pale for one plant, lets say Anubias, will be normal color for the Tonina.
Rotala rotundifolia 'Green' is a bright green plant. So is Hygrophila difformis. So it wont turn dark green no matter how much you dose.
I think it would be a mistake for @FISHnLAB to interpret the chart to mean that it applies to all his plant species
All the evidence except the tests are showing that you should have enough. Youre feeding your fish. Youre dosing a fertilizer that is made to cover CO2-injected tanks at the recommended dosing. Youre not using CO2 injection, so your plants will need maybe 1/3rd to 1/10th less than that fertilizer is made for. There is absolutely no way that your plants are starving with that. Your Rotala Green looks very happy to me. Same with the Difformis, the Sagittaria in the foreground (looks like Sag at least).
Test kits have given incorrect readings before. Especially nitrate!
Almost the exact same thing happened to me, which is why I said ive been down this road before. I was running low tech, my plants looked fine, and I was dosing a lot of ferts. Nitrate reading showed none. I threw in even more nitrate, literally poured potassium nitrate into the tank, let it circulate a bit and then tested again. No change. I was confused as heck. I wondered if the biomedia ate all of it since I still believed in the salespitch from Seachem Matrix. I still dont know why the test gave the incorrect results that time. On several occasions. Because there was nitrate in that tank. Later on ive tested Nitrate and it has given the expected reading. Was the other test out of date? Did I somehow mess up the procedure? Some other factor? I have no idea.
But the plants dont lie.
I know its really hard but im really trying to help you over this hole that is really easy to fall into.
I come from the fishkeeping side of the hobby where the word of the test kit is law. But then it turns out sometimes its not.
Please wait it out 😊
Ill personally buy you a new pot of whatever plant you want* if you actually have nitrate and phosphate deficiency and your plants die because of my advice.
(Within reason, I learned my lesson from offering to buy Darrel a beer)
Youve got the right spirit, I can tell 😄 Sometimes a leap of faith is required!
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Hi all,
It really has to be a floating plant to use for the Duckweed Index, so that it isn't CO2 limited and it is only Lemna minor or L. gibba that goes that really dark green under large nitrogen loadings.
That is partially why I use leaf size and growth rate as well with Limnobium laevigatum.
cheers Darrel
Yes, that is right. It was developed for Rice (Oryza sativa), and works pretty well for Duckweed (Lemna minor) and Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum), but <"isn't suitable for every plant">. Have a look at <"Glasshouse "floating weeds" tank.">
It really has to be a floating plant to use for the Duckweed Index, so that it isn't CO2 limited and it is only Lemna minor or L. gibba that goes that really dark green under large nitrogen loadings.
That is partially why I use leaf size and growth rate as well with Limnobium laevigatum.
cheers Darrel
MichaelJ
Member
Hi @Hufsa, I do agree with that. However, I do think the chart have merit for judging many species that have a natural tendency to go deeper green when thriving - but you have to use the chart correctly; such as judging relative to the "ideal" leaf color - say if you leaves are matching patch 2, but should ideally be more like patch 4 - that may point to nitrogen deficiency (or other deficiencies) and is entirely depended on the plant in question.
Cheers,
Michael
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FISHnLAB
Member
Yes, I think you are right. It's just so hard when you are still learning to know if you are doing it "right". I should probably get an aquatic plant text book to help me learn. Oh, and that is Helanthium Tenellus "Green" in the foreground.
Yes, they are only so accurate from what I hear. Especially the liquid test kits. I may get a full set of Hanna Colorimeter style one day...
Yep, that's where I'm at minus adding extra phosphate and Nitrate to the tank. Pretty confusing indeed.
Yes, that's how I started too. I did 3 months of fish keeping before I went planted.
Will do. I still gave 7 drops APT 3 today. Do you think I should dial it back again?
Lol, I'll have a look at that thread after I post. Did he have you buy him a fancy one or something. I'll take an Anubias White Panda please😁...
Well, here I go... 😬
FISHnLAB
Member
Thanks for the clarification Darrel and all of your help👍. How do you think my Salvinia Aruculata will work? I also have Red Root Floater on the way too but, won't have any Amazon Frogbit until my big tank gets here.
sparkyweasel
Member
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Focus on that. 🙂
plantnoobdude
Member
I hope you don’t take this the wrong way but I think you’re massively over complicating things, especially for a Low tech tank. I’ve had my heavily planted Low tech set up for a few months now and I think I’ve dosed fertilisers (NPK+FE) once when I thought it was needed, I just got a little spoon and dosed some miracle gro. Should be me sorted for a few more weeks. I also use inert substrate+RO water, so it’s not like there are other considerable nutrient factors.
I would take @Hufsa s advice. Get your all in one and dose it lol.
I would take @Hufsa s advice. Get your all in one and dose it lol.
Hi all,
The same applies to Water Lettuce (Pistia stratiotes), size and morphology work, but colour doesn't. Water Hyacinth (Eichornia crassipes) would be the "ideal" choice as a nutrient remover, but it is big and a <"turned up to eleven plant">.
cheers Darrel
It works fine in terms of growth and morphology, but you can't really use the greeness aspect. This is what it looks like with <"plenty of light and nutrients">.
The same applies to Water Lettuce (Pistia stratiotes), size and morphology work, but colour doesn't. Water Hyacinth (Eichornia crassipes) would be the "ideal" choice as a nutrient remover, but it is big and a <"turned up to eleven plant">.
cheers Darrel
FISHnLAB
Member
Everyone enjoys this hobby there own way and I tend to be the type of person that doesn't just want to do something but, give it my all and thrive for the absolute best I can achieve. I tend to refine and optimize everything I own for the absolute best performance within the parameters I set(in this case every bit of tech into this nano tank but, CO2 injection). Half of the fun of the many hobbies I have been into in my life is that optimization and refinement to achieve as close to my definition of perfect as I can. I don't want average planted tanks, I am beginning my, what is going to be a long one, journey into creating world class setups. I am exactly 4 months to the day into owning my first aquarium and 21 days in from planting my first aquatic plants. This is only the beginning, my journey into high tech starts in 1 month...
FISHnLAB
Member
Ok, thank Darrel, that is helpful. So, my Salvinia grows more leggy(further spaced out leaves) due to less light, CO2, and nutrients in the low tech setup?Hi all,
It works fine in terms of growth and morphology, but you can't really use the greeness aspect. This is what it looks like with <"plenty of light and nutrients">.
The same applies to Water Lettuce (Pistia stratiotes), size and morphology work, but colour doesn't. Water Hyacinth (Eichornia crassipes) would be the "ideal" choice as a nutrient remover, but it is big and a <"turned up to eleven plant">.
cheers Darrel
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Hi all,
This is the <"https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/glasshouse-floating-weeds-tank.70267">. Which hasn't received a lot of nutrients, but has had a lot of light.
The situation is slightly complicated by the Azolla caroliniana, because it has a <"nitrogen fixing cyanobacterial symbiont">, and which will have supplied some "extra" fixed nitrogen.
If the Salvinia auriculata group had more nutrients I would expect the shoots to be much longer before the basal leaves went brown (started senescing) and it would be a bigger plant all around and possibly slightly less "bronzy" in colour.
cheers Darrel
The advantage of a floating plant is that you can discount CO2 deficiency, any floating, or emergent, plant has access to <"415 ppm of atmospheric CO2">. It is <"Diana Walstad's "aerial advantage"> and have a look at <"150 ppm co2?">.
I think so, I also think that light is probably more important than nutrients in terms of the degree of leginess.
This is the <"https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/glasshouse-floating-weeds-tank.70267">. Which hasn't received a lot of nutrients, but has had a lot of light.
The situation is slightly complicated by the Azolla caroliniana, because it has a <"nitrogen fixing cyanobacterial symbiont">, and which will have supplied some "extra" fixed nitrogen.
If the Salvinia auriculata group had more nutrients I would expect the shoots to be much longer before the basal leaves went brown (started senescing) and it would be a bigger plant all around and possibly slightly less "bronzy" in colour.
cheers Darrel
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FISHnLAB
Member
Good to know thanks.
Roger. On this note and not pertaining jusy to my salvina, I really wish I owned a PAR meter as I am really finding that knowing if I have enough or too much light for my current setup is challenging. I have a high end LUX meter, would that be of any use?
Wow, that looks awesome Darrel, super lush. It really seams some plants will actually do better with less nutrients eh...This is the <"https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/glasshouse-floating-weeds-tank.70267/">. Which hasn't received a lot of nutrients, but has had a lot of light.
The situation is slightly complicated by the Azolla caroliniana, because it has a <"nitrogen fixing cyanobacterial symbiont">, and which will have supplied some "extra" fixed nitrogen.
Thanks for all of your help sir👍.
Hi all,
These are in a N. facing window and have a "Superfish Scaper 45 Light" (that I purchased from @Epiphyte) earlier in the year.
They don't have any fish and receive an extremely ad hoc slosh of <"Miracle Gro"> and an <"even more random dose"> of iron chelate (FeEDTA) & Epsom Salts (MgSO4.7H2O) when the Frogbit looks particularly poor.
If you look at the Frogbit on the extreme left edge of the image (highlighted below) you can see iron deficiency (the leaf with the net pattern pointing up the screen), the yellow leaf, below that one, is missing one or more of the mobile nutrients (and probably potassium (K), nitrogen (N) or magnesium (Mg)) and the newer leaves, below the yellow one, are ~healthy.
The Salvinia will have suffered in the same way, but you can't really see it. You can also see that the Duckweed (Lemna minor) is pale green and that is probably a combination of sub-optimal nutrient levels and soft water.
cheers Darrel
Like this, taken this afternoon.
These are in a N. facing window and have a "Superfish Scaper 45 Light" (that I purchased from @Epiphyte) earlier in the year.
They don't have any fish and receive an extremely ad hoc slosh of <"Miracle Gro"> and an <"even more random dose"> of iron chelate (FeEDTA) & Epsom Salts (MgSO4.7H2O) when the Frogbit looks particularly poor.
If you look at the Frogbit on the extreme left edge of the image (highlighted below) you can see iron deficiency (the leaf with the net pattern pointing up the screen), the yellow leaf, below that one, is missing one or more of the mobile nutrients (and probably potassium (K), nitrogen (N) or magnesium (Mg)) and the newer leaves, below the yellow one, are ~healthy.
The Salvinia will have suffered in the same way, but you can't really see it. You can also see that the Duckweed (Lemna minor) is pale green and that is probably a combination of sub-optimal nutrient levels and soft water.
cheers Darrel
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