I find this with a lot of characins not just pencils. All my hyphessobrycon males can be pretty hard on one another when they’re in the mood to breed and don’t allow any other fish near their ‘patch’. As for iguanodectes, when they’re in the mood they take over most of the tank!
-
You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up
The Nymph's Spring (EA900)
- Thread starter shangman
- Start date
mort
Member
- Joined
- 15 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 2,424
I have mentioned it many times before but I've not had any problems keeping pencilfish but I do keep them differently to most. I actually like a bit of feistyness in fish provided it doesn't cause to many problems, so perhaps I just don't see their behaviour as anything to worry about, they do have some of the mini cichlid charm.
I don't think your apistogramma would benefit from them however as you have a great group of other fish already but N. eques are really quite gentle ime and more inclined to sulk about the tank in the shadows, rather than in the open. N. marginatus is another nice species but ideally you'd need 10-12 of any pencilfish to get the best out of them.
I don't think your apistogramma would benefit from them however as you have a great group of other fish already but N. eques are really quite gentle ime and more inclined to sulk about the tank in the shadows, rather than in the open. N. marginatus is another nice species but ideally you'd need 10-12 of any pencilfish to get the best out of them.
Sounds like a bit of a nightmare!! Did you have lots of plants at the top of the tank, and did they stay at the top or go all over? I won't keep this type but interesting to know!!
Interesting that she has a go at him when she has babies! Generally once mine has babies she's fine, it's the bit before where she gets nasty. When she had babies a few weeks ago she was quite gentle with the male, who interestingly spent his whole time chasing the other fish to protect them, my last male apisto never did this and totally shirked his fatherly duties. Reminds me in that article that "lazy" male behaviour apparently annoys some females!
Those coral reds were already off the list, I remember you saying how vicious they were! Such a shame they are so beaut.
Great, maybe not the right kind of fish to add then! 😂 I don't mind some sparring as long as they're not killing eachother, sounds like they might do just that though! Love that you linked an old thread of mine, I totally forgot about it, loads of useful info in there!! Seems like my (sort of) plan of waiting a few more months for more jungleness to establish, going for eques and being very particular about the sex ratios would be good.
Every now and again my cardinals get snippy with eachother, like little colourful daggers dancing to protect their patch, though they're never too violent and it doesn't last long. The advtange for me with the pencils is that there's almost nothing swimming in the top half of the tank 90% of the time, so they would have a lot of territory for themselves.
Tbh I don't mind fiestiness as long as there isn't murder in the cards. If it wasn't for my last male apisto dying suspiciously I wouldn't be so worried about this apisto behaviour! Both those species do look lovely, I think they are the top contenders, 10-12 would be my aim. The marginatus have a lovely stripe that's very appealing. We'll see how it shakes out and how the tank is doing in a few months, it seems like the higher light, copious root tabs and stable co2 is really starting to make a difference and the top half of the tank especially looks so fabulous now I can't help but imagine some lovely pencils swimming about it in since none of the other fish are that interested. Will post a pic on Sunday once I've redone the front a bit!
I had lots of floating plants, but my tank is low and long, so there was less sense of a middle and top. Plants, rocks, it made no difference. The dominant M ruled 75% of the tank, the second one had 25%, and the other M and F's hid. I tried adding more F. No help. The Peacock Goby also hid. The Cory weren't that keen either. They are fast fish so the aggression makes the tank feel agitated, and the disputes were constant. Everyone goes on about the shoulder barging, which is fine, and fun, but that was quite rare, mostly it was spitfire attacks. I've really enjoyed my tank since they left. I have sparklers and Peacocks, which can be aggressive, sometimes very, sometime with injury, but it isn't a constant darting. Beckfords would make a wonderful species only.
mort
Member
- Joined
- 15 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 2,424
I've kept a group of N. beckfordi for around a decade and as far as im aware, I have never lost any due to interspecific aggression. I lost a couple to dropsy which may have been brought on by sparring but I couldn't say for certain but in all the time I've had them I've never seen any damage to any of them, not even a split fin. The same goes for my brother who only has a group of six, peacefully living together for two years in his community tank. I'd like to think mine have died of old age as they reach 5-6 years and then gently fade. I did lose a couple to jumpy but I added glass lids and they have been fine since. My brother does have one with what I think is a thyroid tumour (which is a known problem) but I've never had one of mine get one.
This species nearly always stays at the top and rarely comes down more than half the tank height. With eques I've not seen them more than a few inches from the suface and other species I've kept have also stayed near the top. The tank is pretty jungly but with an open area around the middle and upper areas. It's fairly similar to your tank but with a mass of floating plants on one side.
It's quite odd really when I read of other peoples troubles with them because it seems like we are talking about two different species, mine, pretty quiet that wouldn't say boo to a goose, and others that have mini murderous monsters. I don't doubt any of observations but it's just the polar opposite to my decade plus experience of the family and it does put me off recommending them now. I tend to just suggest lampeyes now for people wanting a peaceful upper water species. They are lovely fish but they don't have the same charm.
This species nearly always stays at the top and rarely comes down more than half the tank height. With eques I've not seen them more than a few inches from the suface and other species I've kept have also stayed near the top. The tank is pretty jungly but with an open area around the middle and upper areas. It's fairly similar to your tank but with a mass of floating plants on one side.
It's quite odd really when I read of other peoples troubles with them because it seems like we are talking about two different species, mine, pretty quiet that wouldn't say boo to a goose, and others that have mini murderous monsters. I don't doubt any of observations but it's just the polar opposite to my decade plus experience of the family and it does put me off recommending them now. I tend to just suggest lampeyes now for people wanting a peaceful upper water species. They are lovely fish but they don't have the same charm.
I did read vague stories of a variety bred in Asia which were more aggressive, so it is possible that there are different strains as, I agree, the accounts do differ wildly. I would say, as a guess, that if you have the aggressive kind then no style of tank would make a difference, so maybe try to buy from someone who has bred them and can speak to their behaviour. Like I said, my issue wasn't the shoulder barging, it was constant chasing the length of the tank. I wonder, Mort, if you had a more dominant larger fish species in there, and that made the Beckfords hold back?
mort
Member
- Joined
- 15 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 2,424
No, the beckfords were/are the show fish. They lived with a pygmy cory group then adolfoi group with hengli rasbora and the occasional tiny fry from something else I was growing up. I've never once seen them even look at another fish and they are the same in my brothers tank and he has cardinals, pentazona barbs, plus some other randoms and a crazy goby.
I originally got 12 that didn't sell in a lfs, so got a deal and I kept them at a 12-15 group size. As they bred I moved some on but also swapped the odd one for some more breeding vigour. The new ones came from different sources and I've not witnessed any difference in the behaviour. They have always been added to the tank last though, which may have some bairing idk.
Had a really lovely day yesterday, went with @Courtneybst on a lil roadtrip to World of Water, where I was hoping to get some aeschynomene fluitans. To my delight, they had it in stock.... And then I realised they had LOADS OF GREAT PLANTS OMGGGGGGG AW YISSSSS. Honestly I think it is the best place to buy plants in the UK, they have the normal range of tropica and things like that, AND they have all sorts of unusual plants I've never seen anywhere except maybe Aquasabi before Brexit. Very reasonably priced, and a great place to go and nerd out about plants and tanks with Dan who stocks it all. Also, all of the plants are just in fantastic health, and there are common plants I bought here that I'd never considered before, but they looked so luscious I couldn't resist and I'm really glad I didn't! I'm a big fan of buying plants not because it goes with your scape, but because they're just beautiful, they'll always fit if you just get what you love.
Some unusual and VERY NICE plants I acquired, hopefully some do well! -
Aeschynomene fluitans - the reason I went and it does not disappoint!! Just a fabulous beautiful plant.
Hydrocleys nymphoides - eventually this should grow into a floating plant with lovely flowers like poppies. I've got 3 plants growing along runners so planted the first runner and letting the rest rise up to float. Bit of an experiment which is always exciting.
Ludwigia helminthorrhiza - a floating ludwigia, with fascinating modified white roots that are filled with air and act as bouys! One of the things I loved about Green Planet was how they showed the fascinating adaptations of waterplants which all these floating plants really epitomise, so cool.
Lagenandra thwaiteseii - my eyes went 👀👀👀 when I saw this, cos I've never seen it before and it's a lovely aroid (love of aroids runs in my family). It's gone in the front of the tank cos it's so nice, I hope it gets massive. I've got 2 bits in the soil, one on wood as an epiphyte experimentally. Kinda wish I'd bought the second pot!
Echinodorus Regine Hildebrandt - IMPOSSIBLE to not buy, look how PINK these leaves are. Have found it hard to find genuinely nice red echinodorus for ages, v glad to have found this, and lovely ruffles too. What I also love is these plants have been growing in WoW's lowtech system, that they're this pink in lowtech is awesome.
Echinodorus hormanii - interesting small long brown-red-copper leaves, I have 10 types of echinodorus in this tank now, I'm screwed when they all grow bigger (3 of them are originals from my old tank and a bit rubbish tho) I truly cannot stop myself when I see a nice one. You can't see in the picture how nice the colour is, and how the veining stands out on the older green leaves.
Some not so unusual, but very luscious plants I bought:
Potomogenton gayi - couldn't resist how luscious this was, turns out it's the perfect bushy filler plant for my tank I was always missing. Goes great with the trident fern, and the fish look so good swimming amongst it, great for hiding. Kinda wish I'd bought a second bunch, but looking online it seems like it grows v fast so will have plenty more soon.
Lileopsis brasiliensis - a small but wild looking carpeting plant for the little bit of soil in the front, I think it looks a bit more natural than hairgrass.
Anubias barteri glabra - apparently the same as anubias minima my fav anubias, I already have 2 and when I redid the front right wood I realised I needed at least 1 more. Anyone else a fan? I feel like I don't see it much even though it's lovely with darker purpley stems and yellow new leaves. Very tropical looking and provides great structure to the tank.
Crypt purpura - to fill in the dark gaps in corners, lovely!
I didn't even buy all the nice plants they had, there was loads more that I just don't have space for, particularly the lilies are beaut. Def recommend a visit if you can, I'm looking forward to going again in late spring/early summer for my pond plants and whatever else interesting I can find. I love how good the shops are in this hobby, so satisfying finding great things for the tank!! As a big plant nerd it is so satisfying to have a tank full of beautiful unusual plants, this is what I got CO2 for tbh.
I also bought 5 platinum ricefish which have a gorgeous pearlescent blue sheen. Seeing them made me realise I think in my other group of 5 I only have females lol, so hopefully now they'll start to breed. They've gone in my other tank for now so will take some pics and put them in that journal. They had some other lovely little fish like butterfly barbs and some (very tempting) marginatus PENCILS... with all these new plants the tank is getting closer to be ready for some.
The reason I "needed" so many plants is that I've done quite a lot to the tank over the past few weeks, I haven't been happy with the front right for ages and it's really annoyed me, but only just recently had the time to fix it. I've also been vaguely dreading it so got help from @Courtneybst. There were 2 problems - 1 I used old soil to save money when I did the tank at first, which degraded into mud and had no nutrition and plants just die or hang on in it, and 2, the right "horn" of wood kept falling down when I first added it so my dad suggested attaching it to a GIANT rock, which worked but looked rly ugly and made it hard to plant anything.
After adding the soil
So we took everything out and replace the soil, and then thought... hmm, do I even need the horn of wood? Maybe it is nicer just seeing the giant wood piece in the back. We found a spare bit of riverwood in the garden and planted that and I thought it was quite nice, and interesting to see the tank more open.
annnnndddd... I woke up the next morning, looked in the tank and thought NOPE, I must have my horn back! I didn't like how without it the tank felt so open, I much prefer how protected the tank feels with the wood and more jungly and the perfect place for more emergent plants to attach to. It framed it well. So I realised I could take off the rock and screw some azalea twigs on to act as struts to keep it up and at a better angle, which has worked perfectly! The front now looks sooo much better, really happy with it! This pic is rubbish cos it's with the phone, will get the camera out soon.
Then... on the main wood is a lot of buce and moss... And clado algae, particularly on the lower area, so finally I pulled it all out, chucked the moss and algae and carefully picked it out of the buce and other little rarer plants in there. I made a thread "net" with some lead plant weights to hold it all down, which was a bit dodgy but kinda worked. I wish glue worked better for me but it just doesn't seem to stick the plants to the wood at all, just makes a mess and they still float off. Finally I've been moving around the trident as some of the placements in the above photo were off. Also I sifted all the sand using a tea strainer and a huge pile of old soil came out, look so much better now.
Just took some FTS photos with the plants added.... and my card reader won't work so we'll have to say update done for now and see if I can get that working tonight or tomoz or something. Whoops! Can't wait until the plants have settled a bit more, I think it's gonna look really nice. For a while the tank has been serving woodland vibes, and with all these new plants it's finally giving tropical jungle which is awesome, just what I imagined when I first set it up.
Some unusual and VERY NICE plants I acquired, hopefully some do well! -
Aeschynomene fluitans - the reason I went and it does not disappoint!! Just a fabulous beautiful plant.
Hydrocleys nymphoides - eventually this should grow into a floating plant with lovely flowers like poppies. I've got 3 plants growing along runners so planted the first runner and letting the rest rise up to float. Bit of an experiment which is always exciting.
Ludwigia helminthorrhiza - a floating ludwigia, with fascinating modified white roots that are filled with air and act as bouys! One of the things I loved about Green Planet was how they showed the fascinating adaptations of waterplants which all these floating plants really epitomise, so cool.
Lagenandra thwaiteseii - my eyes went 👀👀👀 when I saw this, cos I've never seen it before and it's a lovely aroid (love of aroids runs in my family). It's gone in the front of the tank cos it's so nice, I hope it gets massive. I've got 2 bits in the soil, one on wood as an epiphyte experimentally. Kinda wish I'd bought the second pot!
Echinodorus Regine Hildebrandt - IMPOSSIBLE to not buy, look how PINK these leaves are. Have found it hard to find genuinely nice red echinodorus for ages, v glad to have found this, and lovely ruffles too. What I also love is these plants have been growing in WoW's lowtech system, that they're this pink in lowtech is awesome.
Echinodorus hormanii - interesting small long brown-red-copper leaves, I have 10 types of echinodorus in this tank now, I'm screwed when they all grow bigger (3 of them are originals from my old tank and a bit rubbish tho) I truly cannot stop myself when I see a nice one. You can't see in the picture how nice the colour is, and how the veining stands out on the older green leaves.
Some not so unusual, but very luscious plants I bought:
Potomogenton gayi - couldn't resist how luscious this was, turns out it's the perfect bushy filler plant for my tank I was always missing. Goes great with the trident fern, and the fish look so good swimming amongst it, great for hiding. Kinda wish I'd bought a second bunch, but looking online it seems like it grows v fast so will have plenty more soon.
Lileopsis brasiliensis - a small but wild looking carpeting plant for the little bit of soil in the front, I think it looks a bit more natural than hairgrass.
Anubias barteri glabra - apparently the same as anubias minima my fav anubias, I already have 2 and when I redid the front right wood I realised I needed at least 1 more. Anyone else a fan? I feel like I don't see it much even though it's lovely with darker purpley stems and yellow new leaves. Very tropical looking and provides great structure to the tank.
Crypt purpura - to fill in the dark gaps in corners, lovely!
I didn't even buy all the nice plants they had, there was loads more that I just don't have space for, particularly the lilies are beaut. Def recommend a visit if you can, I'm looking forward to going again in late spring/early summer for my pond plants and whatever else interesting I can find. I love how good the shops are in this hobby, so satisfying finding great things for the tank!! As a big plant nerd it is so satisfying to have a tank full of beautiful unusual plants, this is what I got CO2 for tbh.
I also bought 5 platinum ricefish which have a gorgeous pearlescent blue sheen. Seeing them made me realise I think in my other group of 5 I only have females lol, so hopefully now they'll start to breed. They've gone in my other tank for now so will take some pics and put them in that journal. They had some other lovely little fish like butterfly barbs and some (very tempting) marginatus PENCILS... with all these new plants the tank is getting closer to be ready for some.
The reason I "needed" so many plants is that I've done quite a lot to the tank over the past few weeks, I haven't been happy with the front right for ages and it's really annoyed me, but only just recently had the time to fix it. I've also been vaguely dreading it so got help from @Courtneybst. There were 2 problems - 1 I used old soil to save money when I did the tank at first, which degraded into mud and had no nutrition and plants just die or hang on in it, and 2, the right "horn" of wood kept falling down when I first added it so my dad suggested attaching it to a GIANT rock, which worked but looked rly ugly and made it hard to plant anything.
After adding the soil
So we took everything out and replace the soil, and then thought... hmm, do I even need the horn of wood? Maybe it is nicer just seeing the giant wood piece in the back. We found a spare bit of riverwood in the garden and planted that and I thought it was quite nice, and interesting to see the tank more open.
annnnndddd... I woke up the next morning, looked in the tank and thought NOPE, I must have my horn back! I didn't like how without it the tank felt so open, I much prefer how protected the tank feels with the wood and more jungly and the perfect place for more emergent plants to attach to. It framed it well. So I realised I could take off the rock and screw some azalea twigs on to act as struts to keep it up and at a better angle, which has worked perfectly! The front now looks sooo much better, really happy with it! This pic is rubbish cos it's with the phone, will get the camera out soon.
Then... on the main wood is a lot of buce and moss... And clado algae, particularly on the lower area, so finally I pulled it all out, chucked the moss and algae and carefully picked it out of the buce and other little rarer plants in there. I made a thread "net" with some lead plant weights to hold it all down, which was a bit dodgy but kinda worked. I wish glue worked better for me but it just doesn't seem to stick the plants to the wood at all, just makes a mess and they still float off. Finally I've been moving around the trident as some of the placements in the above photo were off. Also I sifted all the sand using a tea strainer and a huge pile of old soil came out, look so much better now.
Just took some FTS photos with the plants added.... and my card reader won't work so we'll have to say update done for now and see if I can get that working tonight or tomoz or something. Whoops! Can't wait until the plants have settled a bit more, I think it's gonna look really nice. For a while the tank has been serving woodland vibes, and with all these new plants it's finally giving tropical jungle which is awesome, just what I imagined when I first set it up.
I ripped all mine out when I rescaped last year, I just couldn’t keep it under control. I removed every last leaf and stem . . . but I did reuse the soil. 6 months later I now have P. Gayi everywhere again - runners in virtually all four corners of the tank! It’s a beautiful plant but clearly virtually indestructible!
Yep, I’ve no idea how tall as a maximum but I pulled stems well in excess of 50cm from my tank.
John q
Member
Reaches the top of my tank 500mm and then grows the full length of it, left untrimmed it will grow in excess of 1.5 metres.
For a second I started to consider it but then I recalled the headache I ended up with using vallisneria and nymphoides. Bolbitis is good enough for me!
When I got home yesterday and was showing off all my new plants to my dad it was the only plant I couldn't remember the name of, but I could remember that @Wookii had some so found the name in one of his journals! 😅
I have great respect for plants that grow vigorously and I look forward to it! My hydrocotyle is the same, luckily 90% of my plants are slow growers so having one or two vigorous plants isn't too bad. Can always offload it in the sales section ... Or the compost heap 👀
Can't wait to show you guys how it looks with all the plants in, all those FTS are before! Feel like I've fallen in love with the tank again, tonight is looking so luscious and textured. It's got an obscene number of different plant species in it now but I think I just about get away with it! 😀 Gonna look sick in a few weeks if the new plants survive and thrive.
Go on... I'll give you some of my clippings in a few weeks! It looks lovely in the flow, really feathery 😀
John q
Member
@Courtneybst it can be tamed, it just needs vigorous pruning, also worth mentioning that some folks don't like the aerial roots that tend to get produced.
This was recently trimmed, probably about 1.2 mtrs at the min.
KirstyF
Member
It was great 😂 been feeling a bit in a rut with the tank for a while and all these lovely plants fixed it thoroughly. It's funny I grew up with plant obsessed parents and it never really connected before, but through this hobby I'm just as bad!
It's the Enfield branch, ask for Dan and tell him you're on UKAPS cos he lurks 🙂
Well now I'm feeling much happier about the tank, and particularly about the many floating plants... I'm gonna order some pencilfish for my birthday which is at the end of next month (to give them time to get them in!). We've been talking about it in this journal and others for ages so I think now is the right time.
I've narrowed it down to two.... nannostomus eques, for their seahorse-like gentle behaviour, or nannostomus marginatus (ideally Peruvian), for their lovely striping and because @Jenni <raved about them here> and they sounded great to me. I am planning on getting 12-15. The eques are so gentle and lovely, but atm I'm thinking the marginatus are probably more appropriate for my tank right now, eques may be a fish for a future tank? What do you guys think?
I also need to prepare the tank a little more for them in the meantime. Obviously no.1 is just to let the floating plants take over, which is a very easy step. I may also increase the light for the poor plants below to make sure they get some light, and to make the floating plants even happier.
No.2 is that the flow from my front filter, which has a jet lilypipe on it is very very strong right at the top, and I think it's a bit much for pencils, they'd have to avoid that area as most of my current fish already do cos they'll get blasted. So I need a new lilypipe which spreads the flow a bit more gently AND doesn't disturb the distribution of my co2. It also needs to be at least 5cm below the surface, my current jet lilypipe is very shallow and the top lip is only 1inch from the surface, making it impossible for me to lower the waterline more than 1inch - it becomes VERY loud when above the waterline and the tank is in my bedroom so no bueno. I currently have my waterline at only 1.5cm below the top glass, I haven't had any jumpers in months and months, but obviously with pencilfish I need to at least lower it for a few months to observe them and see how they act before considering it being any higher. So any suggestions for a lilypipe that would work for this?
At the top of the tank a lot of the flow is baffled by plants and there are lots of areas at the top with low for for them, so I think the flow isn't a veto for the fish but I'd like it to be a bit calmer if possible so they have even more territory.
I'm also thinking of getting some rooibos teabags to stain the tank a little, the leaves I add just don't stain the water much even when I add a lot and I think it could be interesting, I quite like a tint tbh.
I've narrowed it down to two.... nannostomus eques, for their seahorse-like gentle behaviour, or nannostomus marginatus (ideally Peruvian), for their lovely striping and because @Jenni <raved about them here> and they sounded great to me. I am planning on getting 12-15. The eques are so gentle and lovely, but atm I'm thinking the marginatus are probably more appropriate for my tank right now, eques may be a fish for a future tank? What do you guys think?
I also need to prepare the tank a little more for them in the meantime. Obviously no.1 is just to let the floating plants take over, which is a very easy step. I may also increase the light for the poor plants below to make sure they get some light, and to make the floating plants even happier.
No.2 is that the flow from my front filter, which has a jet lilypipe on it is very very strong right at the top, and I think it's a bit much for pencils, they'd have to avoid that area as most of my current fish already do cos they'll get blasted. So I need a new lilypipe which spreads the flow a bit more gently AND doesn't disturb the distribution of my co2. It also needs to be at least 5cm below the surface, my current jet lilypipe is very shallow and the top lip is only 1inch from the surface, making it impossible for me to lower the waterline more than 1inch - it becomes VERY loud when above the waterline and the tank is in my bedroom so no bueno. I currently have my waterline at only 1.5cm below the top glass, I haven't had any jumpers in months and months, but obviously with pencilfish I need to at least lower it for a few months to observe them and see how they act before considering it being any higher. So any suggestions for a lilypipe that would work for this?
At the top of the tank a lot of the flow is baffled by plants and there are lots of areas at the top with low for for them, so I think the flow isn't a veto for the fish but I'd like it to be a bit calmer if possible so they have even more territory.
I'm also thinking of getting some rooibos teabags to stain the tank a little, the leaves I add just don't stain the water much even when I add a lot and I think it could be interesting, I quite like a tint tbh.
Last edited:
