doylecolmdoyle
Member
And I should say, really lovely tank, I do hope the submersed plants bounce back for you!
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hitmanx
Member
Sorry for the delay in responding… I appreciate everyone's suggestions and comments.... I apologize if I'm rambling 😉
I do agree that water changes are useful and sometimes mandatory to reset a system that has higher accumulations of any number of substances… I guess I didn't mention that after the long dry start method where the plants grew massively, I did many 100% water changes to leech any remaining organics from the system but perhaps it wasn't enough… it was then that I stopped doing water changes as per the Tom Barr non co2 method like I've done many times before and everything was fine for a long time... but once the the riparium plants started to take off things changed but then again it might be just coincidence because of accumulation over time…
Riparium plant growth was exploding but the submerged growth was slowing in most but not all plants… but they didn't show signs of obvious deficiency so it was confusing me… the whole idea of a shallow wide riparium is that there CAN be equal lighting for submerged and riparium plants where the former isn't shaded by the latter… so as the riparium plants grow the lighting doesn't change under the water… so now I ask myself is there too much or not enough light?
the Hydrocotyle tripartita is 95% gone now and only growing above the water surface along the driftwood… the e. Tenellus in the brightest section has always done well but the e. Tenellus ‘green’ has suffered the most with the algae as well as the lilaeopsis mauritania… and the crypts under the brightest lights have melted where the crypts under the shadows have been just fine…
I have not altered the ferts since day one and I have been using the concentrations outlined by the non co2 method which has worked well before… if the riparium plants were taking it all wouldn't I see obvious signs of deficiency not just slow growth and algae? Why would the e. Tenellus be bright green and growing compact while other plants are covered in algae? What's happening just doesn't make sense to me in my experiences…
After manual removal and water changes and gravel vac things were looking better, but after returning from a trip I came home to a new kind of algae - brown filamentous diatoms! During the last water change I drained too much of the display tank and while filling it back up I stirred up the safe t sorb in the back which may have added too much silicates into the water column…
It comes off easy and is slimy so I sucked it out with and airline hose and some small water changes… it's still growing slowly but it is manageable and apparently blackouts are suggested but again that would be nearly impossible with a riparium setup like this… it was even clogging the overflow guards thus raising the water level...
I'm also starting to think substrate ferts are inadequate as most of the submerged plants are root feeders… the only stem I have is h. Polysperma and it's doing very well with no signs of deficiency and rapid growth… but that doesn't account for the failure of the h. Tripartita…
Yesterday I added several pots of Echinodorus Quadricostatus and Echinodorus latifolius to back of the carpet section and 4 pots of Staurogyne repens spread around, some in brighter and some in darker sections… I also added some more random stems with different growing needs to try and see what works…
Today I'm adding another Hydor koralia on the opposite side to improve the circular flow of the tank because the front sections seem to be lacking… I also removed some random wood I had in the back that was disrupting the flow from the other koralia… I want to make sure I have enough flow to get the crud in suspension so it takes the trip down to the sump without settling on the substrate… I also need to upgrade my return pump as it is lacking...
Unfortunately I haven't found the time to actually clean the sump and filter yet… that's my next priority and very well could be my Achilles heal at the moment… i also dimmed the LED light intensity from 75% to 65%... I know I'm changing so much at once and therefore may not be able to ascertain the true cause of my woes, but I don't want my tank to look so ‘dirty’ anymore… the riparium section is amazing and I just want the submerged section be just as lush…
I've had no more jumpers, but the female tiger endler has ceased to exist, but not before shooting out a bunch of babies…
Anyways I'll keep you all updated on my progress... I will also take pictures to show you the lighting and where it hits the substrate... come to think of it the main growth of the h. Tripartita has actually before kind of shaded over so maybe that contributed to its demise...
I do agree that water changes are useful and sometimes mandatory to reset a system that has higher accumulations of any number of substances… I guess I didn't mention that after the long dry start method where the plants grew massively, I did many 100% water changes to leech any remaining organics from the system but perhaps it wasn't enough… it was then that I stopped doing water changes as per the Tom Barr non co2 method like I've done many times before and everything was fine for a long time... but once the the riparium plants started to take off things changed but then again it might be just coincidence because of accumulation over time…
Riparium plant growth was exploding but the submerged growth was slowing in most but not all plants… but they didn't show signs of obvious deficiency so it was confusing me… the whole idea of a shallow wide riparium is that there CAN be equal lighting for submerged and riparium plants where the former isn't shaded by the latter… so as the riparium plants grow the lighting doesn't change under the water… so now I ask myself is there too much or not enough light?
the Hydrocotyle tripartita is 95% gone now and only growing above the water surface along the driftwood… the e. Tenellus in the brightest section has always done well but the e. Tenellus ‘green’ has suffered the most with the algae as well as the lilaeopsis mauritania… and the crypts under the brightest lights have melted where the crypts under the shadows have been just fine…
I have not altered the ferts since day one and I have been using the concentrations outlined by the non co2 method which has worked well before… if the riparium plants were taking it all wouldn't I see obvious signs of deficiency not just slow growth and algae? Why would the e. Tenellus be bright green and growing compact while other plants are covered in algae? What's happening just doesn't make sense to me in my experiences…
After manual removal and water changes and gravel vac things were looking better, but after returning from a trip I came home to a new kind of algae - brown filamentous diatoms! During the last water change I drained too much of the display tank and while filling it back up I stirred up the safe t sorb in the back which may have added too much silicates into the water column…
It comes off easy and is slimy so I sucked it out with and airline hose and some small water changes… it's still growing slowly but it is manageable and apparently blackouts are suggested but again that would be nearly impossible with a riparium setup like this… it was even clogging the overflow guards thus raising the water level...
I'm also starting to think substrate ferts are inadequate as most of the submerged plants are root feeders… the only stem I have is h. Polysperma and it's doing very well with no signs of deficiency and rapid growth… but that doesn't account for the failure of the h. Tripartita…
Yesterday I added several pots of Echinodorus Quadricostatus and Echinodorus latifolius to back of the carpet section and 4 pots of Staurogyne repens spread around, some in brighter and some in darker sections… I also added some more random stems with different growing needs to try and see what works…
Today I'm adding another Hydor koralia on the opposite side to improve the circular flow of the tank because the front sections seem to be lacking… I also removed some random wood I had in the back that was disrupting the flow from the other koralia… I want to make sure I have enough flow to get the crud in suspension so it takes the trip down to the sump without settling on the substrate… I also need to upgrade my return pump as it is lacking...
Unfortunately I haven't found the time to actually clean the sump and filter yet… that's my next priority and very well could be my Achilles heal at the moment… i also dimmed the LED light intensity from 75% to 65%... I know I'm changing so much at once and therefore may not be able to ascertain the true cause of my woes, but I don't want my tank to look so ‘dirty’ anymore… the riparium section is amazing and I just want the submerged section be just as lush…
I've had no more jumpers, but the female tiger endler has ceased to exist, but not before shooting out a bunch of babies…
Anyways I'll keep you all updated on my progress... I will also take pictures to show you the lighting and where it hits the substrate... come to think of it the main growth of the h. Tripartita has actually before kind of shaded over so maybe that contributed to its demise...
hitmanx
Member
Here is what I came home to last week:
My best guess is that its Brown filamentous diatoms or Synedra... I sucked it all out and it hasn't really come back too much..
My best guess is that its Brown filamentous diatoms or Synedra... I sucked it all out and it hasn't really come back too much..
hitmanx
Member
Here's some pictures of the light spread over the riparium... plenty of light gets to the substrate but is it too much without co2?
Daveslaney
Member
The emersed growth looks fantastic. I would guess to get the same lush growth on your submerged plants and combat the algae under the high light you will need to go co2,Its the only limiting factor to your submerged plant growth?.
mort
Member
- Joined
- 15 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 2,406
Sorry I haven't had a chance to read any of this thread and its the first time I've seen it (but earmarked for further reading later) but its such a great system, especially the riparium section. One day i'd like to emulate, or at least take inspiration from this.
hitmanx
Member
Also I wanted to ask anyone who has had better sucess with cyperus alternafolia 'gracilus', whether more ambient humity is necessary... despite good growth overall, alot of the leaves start to look ratty pretty quickly
hitmanx
Member
After a LONG time where the Maidenhair fern just sitting there and the lower branches drying up it has suddenly started throwing up new shoots... it's now doubling in size...
I wrapped the rhizome and roots in sphagnum moss and a hair net and tied it to the top of the driftwood so the moss soaks up the water...
I wrapped the rhizome and roots in sphagnum moss and a hair net and tied it to the top of the driftwood so the moss soaks up the water...
zozo
Member
Is a very hardy plant and grows about everywhere you put it as long as it is wet.. It's leafs can take up to -2°C and the rootstock can take up to -8°C. All tho this plant is perennial in tropical regions, it is a flowering plant and part of it's life cycle, it goes through different growth stages, starting as young elongating culms with closed umbels, then elongating culms with umbels just opening, fully elongated culms and fully expanded umbels, senescent culms and finally dead culms. Even if you dont get it to flower and cary seed, culms will die at the end of it's life cycle. 🙂
I have it standing in the garden in a filter basket in the tub and it does the same as what yours does, tho mine flowered and is throwing seeds already. I trim all dying culms out and take it inside before the frost kills it. That way it stays alive and grows on new culms from it's rhizome every year.
And it is an extremely hungry plant, there for very popular as helophyte for waste water treatment, if it is a deficiency it likely isn't a humidity deficiency..
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hitmanx
Member
Okay so each "stem" of the cyperus has a life cycle so cutting is mandatory... there is a equal mix of good growth and ratty growth...
That makes this plant annoying to me because it's hard to get back to this plant to cut the old stems off... it's nearly 3ft back and very dense growth from the roots... any idea how long the life cycle is for each stem? I'm trying to decide whether to keep it or dump it... I don't want something thats going to need constant cutting for it to look nice... I have enough stuff maintain on this tank...
Maybe I need something else back there... but it does fill a large space...
That makes this plant annoying to me because it's hard to get back to this plant to cut the old stems off... it's nearly 3ft back and very dense growth from the roots... any idea how long the life cycle is for each stem? I'm trying to decide whether to keep it or dump it... I don't want something thats going to need constant cutting for it to look nice... I have enough stuff maintain on this tank...
Maybe I need something else back there... but it does fill a large space...
zozo
Member
It'l live till after flowering and making seeds, after that it dies and new culms take it over.. I have no indoor and or under artificial light source experience with this plant. I only make it survive the winter under very low light in the cellar.. So i do know nothing about flower development and life cycle in these conditions. Your picture also doesn't show clear flowering. And also no idea of life time if conditions are not suficient to make it flower. But even if it doesn't get polinated, it's life cycle isn't indefinitely. It is commonly available in about every garden centre as indoor houseplant.. Maybe a caretaker in the gardencentre can tell you much more about care in indoor conditions. It can grow bigger than 3 feet.. Outdoors in the sun it goes on and on about the whole summer.
Old one about done and full of seeds
Mean while another fresh young one still developing.
🙂
Maybe a Cyperus helferi would be a beter option stays a tad smaller, a bit more elegant and also grows submersed..
I remember James Findley planted it emersed in his Tributary scape.. (Far right front corner)
Tho never found an updated video or picture, because this plant grows bigger than what the video shows, this must be shortly after setting it up. 🙂
Old one about done and full of seeds
Mean while another fresh young one still developing.
🙂
Maybe a Cyperus helferi would be a beter option stays a tad smaller, a bit more elegant and also grows submersed..
I remember James Findley planted it emersed in his Tributary scape.. (Far right front corner)
Tho never found an updated video or picture, because this plant grows bigger than what the video shows, this must be shortly after setting it up. 🙂
hitmanx
Member
I have 2 kinds of cyperus Alternafolia... the smaller 'gracilus' is what I have in the tank... it definitely tops out at under 2 to 3ft... the other grows and grows...
hitmanx
Member
There is some of the first algae left on the liliaeopsis and e. Tenellus 'green' and some of the Brown filamentous diatoms or Synedra here and there but nothing like before...
I was reading that maybe the ohka or dragonstone may leech out silicates for along time and therefore triggering the diatoms... it's so funny that when you add so many variables to a tank any number of them can conspire to ruin your day...
I also forgot to mention that this is day 3 of using excel in the tank... I wanted to see if it made a difference on the algae and also to help the new plant additions along... I'm using it as per the recommended doses... let's hope the whole thing doesn't crash when I stop using it...
I really am changing to many things at once... if it does get better I won't know why!!
I was reading that maybe the ohka or dragonstone may leech out silicates for along time and therefore triggering the diatoms... it's so funny that when you add so many variables to a tank any number of them can conspire to ruin your day...
I also forgot to mention that this is day 3 of using excel in the tank... I wanted to see if it made a difference on the algae and also to help the new plant additions along... I'm using it as per the recommended doses... let's hope the whole thing doesn't crash when I stop using it...
I really am changing to many things at once... if it does get better I won't know why!!
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hitmanx
Member
I did some water testing tonight for the first time since march... not much of a change since then...
Ph 7.4-7.6
Kh 3°
Gh 13°
No3 5ppm
Tds 410ppm
Temp 22°C
This seems to be normal for my water when I cut it down 50/50 with RO... The interesting thing is the nitrates... my previous larger tank that lasted 3 years hovered around 100+ppm but did not have any riparium plants to soak anything up... fish and plants did well but new livestock additions didn't fare too well...
I may need to increase my dosing... maybe my ferts are in fact the limiting factor... I just need to let the tank settle in for more efficient co2 uptake without injection... as in continue the non co2 method but increase the dosing to reflect the higher needs of the riparium plants...
At a later date I can test again and keep the nitrates down if they creep up... anyways this journal seems to be only airing out my dirty laundry... I need to start sharing the success of this tank with better pictures and the specifics of the system!
Ph 7.4-7.6
Kh 3°
Gh 13°
No3 5ppm
Tds 410ppm
Temp 22°C
This seems to be normal for my water when I cut it down 50/50 with RO... The interesting thing is the nitrates... my previous larger tank that lasted 3 years hovered around 100+ppm but did not have any riparium plants to soak anything up... fish and plants did well but new livestock additions didn't fare too well...
I may need to increase my dosing... maybe my ferts are in fact the limiting factor... I just need to let the tank settle in for more efficient co2 uptake without injection... as in continue the non co2 method but increase the dosing to reflect the higher needs of the riparium plants...
At a later date I can test again and keep the nitrates down if they creep up... anyways this journal seems to be only airing out my dirty laundry... I need to start sharing the success of this tank with better pictures and the specifics of the system!
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
It won't be the rock, diatoms are incredibly efficient at sequestering silicon (Si), but they can only use it as <"orthosilicic acids">, and quartz (SiO2) isn't soluble.
cheers Darrel
hitmanx
Member
The algae that was left on the liliaeopsis and e. Tenellus 'green' has bloomed again... i think its time mow it all down to the stubs... the synedra is still clumping here and there... i hope it goes away soon... i was not able to keep the 2nd Hydor korelia running as the flow was pushing all the frogbit to the right side of the tank where it wouldn't get enough light... the left side still needs more flow so I'm not sure what to do yet...
I'm slowly working away building up the riparium display... the Syngonium and Spathiphyllum 'petite' is serving as the backbone of the planting with accent plants in front and behind... the three driftwood stumps from left to right are occupied by Lysimachia nummularia 'aurea', the Maiden hair fern with moss and emmersed H. triprtita in the middle, and the largest stump on the right is overgrown by Ficus pumila... the cutleaf philodendron (Monstera deliciosa) has become so big and heavy its fallen down behind the tank... my plan is to install hooks on the wall to guide its path from right to left as a background for the entire display...
All of the Hygrophila angustifolia that came from my previous tanks has been converted to emmersed growth with the stems rooted in the substrate and some reaching more than a foot above the water surface... they have nice flowers but overall the plants smell like goats or sheep... very odd... they act as a great transition plant between the riparium and submersed sections...
These are one of the fastest growing plants in the tank so i am able to spread them round bit...
I need to try and cover the remaining section of plastic canvas acting as a overflow guard thats still visible... the white is very distracting... i have not been able to find it in black... i'm thinking of adding in a trellis raft with more L. nummularia to blur the transition between land water
I'm slowly working away building up the riparium display... the Syngonium and Spathiphyllum 'petite' is serving as the backbone of the planting with accent plants in front and behind... the three driftwood stumps from left to right are occupied by Lysimachia nummularia 'aurea', the Maiden hair fern with moss and emmersed H. triprtita in the middle, and the largest stump on the right is overgrown by Ficus pumila... the cutleaf philodendron (Monstera deliciosa) has become so big and heavy its fallen down behind the tank... my plan is to install hooks on the wall to guide its path from right to left as a background for the entire display...
All of the Hygrophila angustifolia that came from my previous tanks has been converted to emmersed growth with the stems rooted in the substrate and some reaching more than a foot above the water surface... they have nice flowers but overall the plants smell like goats or sheep... very odd... they act as a great transition plant between the riparium and submersed sections...
These are one of the fastest growing plants in the tank so i am able to spread them round bit...
I need to try and cover the remaining section of plastic canvas acting as a overflow guard thats still visible... the white is very distracting... i have not been able to find it in black... i'm thinking of adding in a trellis raft with more L. nummularia to blur the transition between land water
hitmanx
Member
I forgot to mention that i have changed my fert schedule...instead of once per week, I am now splitting up the doses on alternate days... monday / thursday macros + equilibrium and wednesday / saturday chelated iron with the possibility of a regular 10% water change per week at least until i don't need to keep sucking out this damn algae!!
Also, do most of my pictures have blueish hue to them? I really need to start taking pictures with my DSLR...
I really wish i would have added a gate valve to the return pipe... when i clean the filter one of these days, i'll have to disconnect the pump and when that happens a good 15 gallons+ goes down into the sump and could take fish with it... of course this happens during a power failure too... i've made due with placing a piece of plastic over the outflow to stop the siphon down into the sump but just like everything else, the riparium plants make getting to the back much harder...
Also, do most of my pictures have blueish hue to them? I really need to start taking pictures with my DSLR...
I really wish i would have added a gate valve to the return pipe... when i clean the filter one of these days, i'll have to disconnect the pump and when that happens a good 15 gallons+ goes down into the sump and could take fish with it... of course this happens during a power failure too... i've made due with placing a piece of plastic over the outflow to stop the siphon down into the sump but just like everything else, the riparium plants make getting to the back much harder...
gltjc
Member
Beautiful tank. What a great combination of leaf shapes and sizes in the emersed section!
hitmanx
Member
I finally broke out the DSLR and took some pictures...
I'm a little rusty so be nice...
Tiger Endler
Brachydanio tinwini
Unfortunately the Celestichthys margaritatus, Celestichthys erythromicron, and Brachydanio choprae are camera shy at the moment and move to fast... I need to increase the light and use a flash to get a clear picture of them...
I'm a little rusty so be nice...
Tiger Endler
Brachydanio tinwini
Unfortunately the Celestichthys margaritatus, Celestichthys erythromicron, and Brachydanio choprae are camera shy at the moment and move to fast... I need to increase the light and use a flash to get a clear picture of them...
Lovely pics. I love little fish.
