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Practical application of lean fertilizer dosing

GreggZ said:
Thrive S dosed at 3 ml 3 times a week into a 20G would by NO3 15 ppm, PO4 3 ppm, K 11 ppm. Pretty close to APT EI. Even higher if you figure there's really about 16 gallons.
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hmmn, these numbers are completely different from what john has given above and what I calculated my self. to be clear sudipta is using thrive shrimp, correct?

as for the stretching, that is your opinion. if you think I am stretching sudiptas tanks in to Happis method, I can't do anymore than I've done already to convince you.
 
plantnoobdude said:
hmmn, these numbers are completely different from what john has given above and what I calculated my self. to be clear sudipta is using thrive shrimp, correct?

as for the stretching, that is your opinion. if you think I am stretching sudiptas tanks in to Happis method, I can't do anymore than I've done already to convince you.
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Oops I did Thrive + not Thrive S. My mistake will edit.
 
plantnoobdude said:
as for the stretching, that is your opinion. if you think I am stretching sudiptas tanks in to Happis method, I can't do anymore than I've done already to convince you.
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And I can't do anymore to convince you that it's a different animal. I've been talking to Sudipta about this tank for well over a year, and even introduced him to folks in my old journal. It was a great discussion. I can't remember his dosing ever being much of a topic. His success has to do with everything else.

Keep in mind his tank is really, really unique. When I first introduced him to some people I know, they insisted that he was injecting CO2. No one believed him. I got to know him over a period of time and I do believe and trust he represents the tank honestly. Still very have few any interest in it as it's simply not repeatable at this time. And the results are seasonal. In the summer the tank does not hold up as well.

Before something really becomes a "method" you would expect to see hundreds of people, or even dozens of people demonstrate success with it. In this case there is not even ONE person who has done it, other than his friend and that one is still a bit unclear and murky. Either way in my opinion that would be an entirely different thread than this one. Just the fact that it is NON CO2 is enough to put it into a different category of conversation.
 
GreggZ said:
And I can't do anymore to convince you that it's a different animal. I've been talking to Sudipta about this tank for well over a year, and even introduced him to folks in my old journal. It was a great discussion. I can't remember his dosing ever being much of a topic. His success has to do with everything else.
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agree to disagree then🙂
 
Hi @GreggZ,

I am trying to see if I can sum some of this up for my understanding. This is my key takeaways from the @Sudipta setup:

  • No CO2 injection
  • RO-DI water Remineralized to 0-1 KH and about 6 GH,
  • pH approx. 5.75.
  • low 70'ties temperature (I suppose this could be 73F ?)
  • Very low water column nutrients <5 ppm nitrate, phosphate <1 ppm.
  • Rich ADA Amazonia approx. 3 inch. deep
  • Ammonia containing root tabs ever 1-2 months. (no word on specific product or amount/sq area)
  • Nilocg ThriveS ("very small amounts of N and P, but decent K, Fe etc.") - (no exact info on dosing schedule, but can be deduced from the <5 ppm of nitrate I suppose)
  • Light: Chihiros wrgb2 120-150+ PAR at the substrate level!
  • Weekly 40% WC with gentle substrate cleaning
  • No/infrequent uprooting
  • Somewhat oversized filtration (HOB) (supposedly to provide adequate flow of co2/nutrient distribution.)

I hope I am representing the conditions correctly, but please let me know otherwise. That doesn't really sound too terribly hard to me. What's your thoughts on this @GreggZ ?

Do you know which root tabs he is using btw.?

Cheers,
Michael
 
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MichaelJ said:
Hi @GreggZ,

I am trying to see if I can sum some of this up for my understanding. This is my key takeaways from the @Sudipta setup:

  • No CO2 injection
  • RO-DI water Remineralized to 0-1 KH and about 6 GH,
  • pH approx. 5.75.
  • low 70'ties temperature (I suppose this could be 73F ?)
  • Very low water column nutrients <5 ppm nitrate, phosphate <1 ppm.
  • Rich ADA Amazonia approx. 3 inch. deep
  • Ammonia containing root tabs ever 1-2 months. (no word on specific product)
  • Nilocg ThriveS ("very small amounts of N and P, but decent K, Fe etc.") - (no exact info on dosing schedule)
  • Light: Chihiros wrgb2 120-150+ PAR at the substrate level
  • Weekly 40% WC with gentle substrate cleaning
  • No/infrequent uprooting
  • Somewhat oversized filtration (HOB) (supposedly to provide adequate flow of co2/nutrient distribution.)

I hope I am representing the conditions correctly, but please let me know otherwise. That doesn't really sound too terribly hard to me. What's your thoughts on this @GreggZ ?

Do you know which root tabs he is using btw.?

Cheers,
Michael
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+flawless plants and a very happy tank owner🙂
 
MichaelJ said:
I hope I am representing the conditions correctly, but please let me know otherwise. That doesn't really sound too terribly hard to me. What's your thoughts on this @GreggZ ?

Do you know which root tabs he is using btw.?

Cheers,
Michael
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LOL doesn't sound too terribly hard!!! Well if you did it you would be the first. Like many outliers I am guessing it will be terribly hard to duplicate, but I am all for you trying. This tank has fascinated me for some time now and I would really love to see someone else to able to repeat the results.

I think the conditions you have are correct. He uses individual osmocote balls but sparingly. But again, I would reach out to the source. He may be able to provide some insight that will increase your odds.

And keep in mind that for a large percentage of people low to no CO2 + high light = algae farm. But yet his tank exists, so go for it!!
 
GreggZ said:
LOL doesn't sound too terribly hard!!! Well if you did it you would be the first.
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I am crazy enough to believe its possible if I get all the conditions just right... again, not for everyone.
GreggZ said:
Like many outliers I am guessing it will be terribly hard to duplicate, but I am all for you trying. This tank has fascinated me for some time now and I would really love to see someone else to able to repeat the results.
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Yes, this tank bothers me a great deal - but in a good way - to be honest. 🙂

GreggZ said:
He uses individual osmocote balls but sparingly.
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Great, thanks!

GreggZ said:
But again, I would reach out to the source. He may be able to provide some insight that will increase your odds.
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I will!

Cheers,
Michael
 
MichaelJ said:
Hi @GreggZ,

I am trying to see if I can sum some of this up for my understanding. This is my key takeaways from the @Sudipta setup:

  • No CO2 injection
  • RO-DI water Remineralized to 0-1 KH and about 6 GH,
  • pH approx. 5.75.
  • low 70'ties temperature (I suppose this could be 73F ?)
  • Very low water column nutrients <5 ppm nitrate, phosphate <1 ppm.
  • Rich ADA Amazonia approx. 3 inch. deep
  • Ammonia containing root tabs ever 1-2 months. (no word on specific product or amount/sq area)
  • Nilocg ThriveS ("very small amounts of N and P, but decent K, Fe etc.") - (no exact info on dosing schedule, but can be deduced from the <5 ppm of nitrate I suppose)
  • Light: Chihiros wrgb2 120-150+ PAR at the substrate level!
  • Weekly 40% WC with gentle substrate cleaning
  • No/infrequent uprooting
  • Somewhat oversized filtration (HOB) (supposedly to provide adequate flow of co2/nutrient distribution.)

I hope I am representing the conditions correctly, but please let me know otherwise. That doesn't really sound too terribly hard to me. What's your thoughts on this @GreggZ ?

Do you know which root tabs he is using btw.?

Cheers,
Michael
Click to expand...
Everything seems correct to me.
I would just like to add that precycling the tank without lights for couple of weeks (even more for ADA Amazonia V1) will help a lot to discourage diatoms and thread algae.

Once the Ammonia reading is around 1ppm or lower then it should be safe to plant. You would still have to do frequent water changes intially after planting (2-3 times a week, 70% or more) for another couple of weeks if you are using Amazonia ver 1.

Keep the lights low (about 25% intensity, probably around 30 PAR at the substrate) for couple of weeks after planting and then increase slowly with time. If you plant dense (some fast growing stems will help a lot) then you should not face any major algae issues intially.

I have tried Osmocote with good results. I am still using Osmocote is some of my tanks. However, I am also using ADA bottom plus in my smaller tanks. I think they both work equally well. Both have high amounts of Ammonia.

Good luck 👍🏽 🙂
 
Sudipta said:
Everything seems correct to me.
I would just like to add that precycling the tank without lights for couple of weeks (even more for ADA Amazonia V1) will help a lot to discourage diatoms and thread algae.

Once the Ammonia reading is around 1ppm or lower then it should be safe to plant. You would still have to do frequent water changes intially after planting (2-3 times a week, 70% or more) for another couple of weeks if you are using Amazonia ver 1.

Keep the lights low (about 25% intensity, probably around 30 PAR at the substrate) for couple of weeks after planting and then increase slowly with time. If you plant dense (some fast growing stems will help a lot) then you should not face any major algae issues intially.

I have tried Osmocote with good results. I am still using Osmocote is some of my tanks. However, I am also using ADA bottom plus in my smaller tanks. I think they both work equally well. Both have high amounts of Ammonia.

Good luck 👍🏽 🙂
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Hi @Sudipta Awesome!

I am doing this in an established very mature tank. I already slowly dialed the dosing and other water parameters down to the levels roughly similar to yours, and I am dosing Tropica Specialized per @Happi's instructions. Only 1/3rd of the tank is planted with the stems (they just came in the other day after floating for a week - pretty scrawny trimmings from APF 🙁 ), the remaining 2/3rd are densely planted with various crypts, various Anubis, Buca and other easy plants thats been there for a couple of years. So yes, the tank and substrate is very mature - zero algae to speak of. I will get some Osmocote for the substrate. I have increased the light levels quite a bit already (but its by no means high yet, it was very low to begin with). I dont have a PAR meter so I'll have to wing it.

Thanks for chiming in!

Cheers,
Michael
 
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GreggZ said:
LOL doesn't sound too terribly hard!!! Well if you did it you would be the first. Like many outliers I am guessing it will be terribly hard to duplicate, but I am all for you trying. This tank has fascinated me for some time now and I would really love to see someone else to able to repeat the results.

I think the conditions you have are correct. He uses individual osmocote balls but sparingly. But again, I would reach out to the source. He may be able to provide some insight that will increase your odds.

And keep in mind that for a large percentage of people low to no CO2 + high light = algae farm. But yet his tank exists, so go for it!!
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I don't think that it will be difficult to replicate my results by most people who can run a high-tech tank successfully. I have provided all the information regarding my setups to the best of my knowledge. I will more than happy to any further clarification.
I know atleast 5 people who have recently started a tank similar to mine and they are getting decent results. I will encourage them to post their tank pics sometime soon.
Here is how the 5 gal shallow non-CO2 supplemented softwater tank is looking rigth now. This setup is almost 6 months old.
20220413_185828.jpg
 
GreggZ said:
Hey Sudipta glad you commented. My goodness every time I see your tank I am stunned. Well done my friend.

A while back you had a friend that posted a picture of a similar tank. How is his going these days?
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Thank you Gregg. 😀
He has 2 tanks and both of them are doing great. I believe he posted a picture recently on FB. I will try to find the post and copy it here.
 
MichaelJ said:
Hi @Sudipta Just looked at Amazon.... plenty to choose from, what specific Osmocote product are you using?

Cheers,
Michael
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I use both of these products. Osmocote plus has micro nutrients along with NPK while the green one only has NPK. I prefer to use Osmocote plus for non-CO2 and green one for CO2 injected tanks.
20220413_191921.jpg20220413_191946.jpg
 
Sudipta said:
I use both of these products. Osmocote plus has micro nutrients along with NPK while the green one only has NPK. I prefer to use Osmocote plus for non-CO2 and green one for CO2 injected tanks.
View attachment 186651View attachment 186652
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Perfect! Those are the ones that came up in my 1st Amazon search. Just wanted to make sure! Thanks a bunch @Sudipta, I think this bit might be crucial for my experiment.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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