Practical application of lean fertilizer dosing

[_Maq_]

Copying the technique of rich substrate, osmocote, lean(er) water column dosing seems to work for me, so I'll just carry on!

Is there anything against anything here? What you describe is just rich dosing furnished through substrate. I say, why not?
Except that we should agree on that it's not about "Practical application of lean fertilizer dosing".

 

[erwin123]

Is there anything against anything here? What you describe is just rich dosing furnished through substrate. I say, why not?
Except that we should agree on that it's not about "Practical application of lean fertilizer dosing".

An argument that "if water column is lean, then substrate must be rich" is simply wrong. Plants' consumption depends on light and CO2. If these resources are abundant, demand for nutrients is high. And vice versa. Substrate or water column make little difference.

Have a look at the Rotala Kill tank thread. One of the conclusions is that there is a difference between substrate and water column dosing, especially when water is harder.

 

[_Maq_]

Have a look at the Rotala Kill tank thread. One of the conclusions is that there is a difference between substrate and water column dosing, especially when water is harder.

I've struggled through five pages and found nothing particularly interesting. Would you kindly direct me to a point where 'something' happens?
Eight pages: Still nothing but trivial 'discoveries'.

 

[DudeFromPantanal]

I am not sure dosing lean necessarily means you can do less WC's. I think of WC's mainly to get rid of waste - known and unknown organic waste, algae spores, pathogens etc. - for the benefit of my livestock, and to a lesser extent the plants. I do measure ORP and TDS that can be a somewhat dicy endeavor to interpret - but as long as I don't see much deviation week over week I take it that the tank is doing well and is stable.

Cheers,
Michael

So… very interesting to know you measure ORP but could you elaborate more? And a little question if you dose little bit h2o2 3% along or alternate days (the same way we dose ferts) would not be a good option to keep and raise ORP and then (maybe) result in less or delayed water changes (to one 100% every month or two)..?

 

[MichaelJ]

So… very interesting to know you measure ORP but could you elaborate more? And a little question if you dose little bit h2o2 3% along or alternate days (the same way we dose ferts) would not be a good option to keep and raise ORP and then (maybe) result in less or delayed water changes (to one 100% every month or two)..?

I wrote the post you are quoting well over a year ago. In the meantime I have realized that the lean dosing in fact enabled me to dial down my WC frequency and amount pretty drastically (now doing 35% every two weeks) without any noticeable buildup of waste or impairment to the health of plant or livestock. I still monitor the ORP and TDS a couple of times a month before WCs and both are stable. I consider my tanks just as healthy now as when I did 50% weekly WC's. Again, no algae to speak of and good plant health and growth. For now, I don't see a compelling reason to lower (or increase) my WC frequency or the amount. Keep in mind, my two mature low-tech tanks are densely planted and low to moderately stocked.

And a little question if you dose little bit h2o2 3% along or alternate days

No, I do not think adding Hydrogen Peroxide (If that is what you meant) into our aquariums on a regular basis, is a good option for anything that I am aware of 🙂

Cheers,
Michael

 

[DudeFromPantanal]

I wrote the post you are quoting well over a year ago. In the meantime I have realized that the lean dosing in fact enabled me to dial down my WC frequency and amount pretty drastically (now doing 35% every two weeks) without any noticeable buildup of waste or impairment to the health of plant or livestock. I still monitor the ORP and TDS a couple of times a month before WCs and both are stable. I consider my tanks just as healthy now as when I did 50% weekly WC's. Again, no algae to speak of and good plant health and growth. For now, I don't see a compelling reason to lower (or increase) my WC frequency or the amount. Keep in mind, my two mature low-tech tanks are densely planted and low to moderately stocked.


No, I do not think adding Hydrogen Peroxide (If that is what you meant) into our aquariums on a regular basis, is a good option for anything that I am aware of 🙂

Cheers,

Thanks for all of you that are spending some time with my dumb questions…

Considering my preference for sand tanks I will agree with you. I have pocking around with E.I levels, diferent ratios, low light, high light, non co2, co2 low and stable, nosebleed levels, etc.

The only thing I noticed and learned clearly is that high lights are not always good (many do believe high light is key, but in practice everything is harder to control, keep-up, etc.). So low to low-med light are enough. And I do use only standard white LED holofotes (like those you see in every hardware store in the corner). Another thing is that E.I also had brought to me a lot of issues… more specifically, I think the more accurate levels (high levels) would be more like 1/2 E.I. unless you are running a hydroponic system (BTW PlantProd Hydroponic fertilizers daily means are around that levels of 1/2 E.I. (not diminishing here the merit of the guy into that insight for planted aquarium management at that time for the hobby).

In my 300 liters tank I do a 90% water change every month now using NO3 at 3-6ppm levels every week (as a reference for the other levels)… commonly more like 3ppm.
Have even some tetras breeding for the first time in 20 years of hobby… but not sure what are the main factors in play here (lean nutrients, dense plant mass, low gh and kh, and ph…). Maybe all of them.

Last thing, I do strongly believe Sudipta Shaw is right on the benefits of low to no carbonates in the water and acidic water. We have plenty examples of dense plant grow in Brazil pantanal and in the outliers conditions like Serra da Bodoquena crystal clear rivers with dense plant mass that chart rationale that he presented makes all sense (although is high gh, kh water the ph is higher to and the water is colder… so things compensates one another right?). Thanks for now guys… keep exchanging and learning here.

 

[DudeFromPantanal]

Those are all valid points and I agree with most of them. However, I don't think that you have read my other post where I mentioned the results after 3 weeks at 84F (almost 29 C). Yes I agree it was only for 3 weeks but still a decent amount of time to show some adverse effects on plants. All I am saying that there is a possibility of having a decent non-CO2 tank with some of the difficult plants (Ludwigia Pantanal included). Pantanal is a warm region and this plant grows in the wild.
View attachment 186737 Keeping Eriocaulon quinquangulare is a different issue, I even said yesterday that I couldn't grow this plant in any of my non-CO2 tanks even at 70F, so it is not about the temperature for this plant. I think it's CO2 uptake system is pretty crappy (I am not absolutely sure about this though, I will try to find more information about it).

Someone said Pantanal???

 

[MichaelJ]

Someone said Pantanal???

A lot of people said a lot of things on this thread. I think we came to the conclusion that we couldn't reach a conclusion and we all remain friends 🙂

Living in Pantanal Brazil (one of the worlds largest tropical wetlands) you should educate us about the biotopes where many of our plants grow! 😉

Cheers,
Michael

 

[DudeFromPantanal]

A lot of people said a lot of things on this thread. I think we came to the conclusion that we couldn't reach a conclusion and we all remain friends 🙂

Living in Pantanal Brazil (one of the worlds largest tropical wetlands) you should educate us about the biotopes where many of our plants grow! 😉

Cheers,
Michael

Well its a privilege and as its touch my heart deeply I could say a lot of good and bad of my homelands, but I will not go too much off-topic here (I already to it a lot with my questions).

But you all can have a taste of it, just look for BIOTOPIA TAI on youtube… that is a good folk and friend that now live in UK (his homeland) again and is writing a book too along with George Farmer.
Actually I think may had one appearance or two in his videos.

 

[DudeFromPantanal]

I've struggled through five pages and found nothing particularly interesting. Would you kindly direct me to a point where 'something' happens?
Eight pages: Still nothing but trivial 'discoveries'.

It worth read through it until the finish. Is considered one of the most interesting and popular threads I think. Even it’s not based on straight scientific and experimental settings and rules.

 

[DudeFromPantanal]

Well its a privilege and as its touch my heart deeply I could say a lot of good and bad of my homelands, but I will not go too much off-topic here (I already to it a lot with my questions).

But you all can have a taste of it, just look for BIOTOPIA TAI on youtube… that is a good folk and friend that now live in UK (his homeland) again and is writing a book too along with George Farmer.
Actually I think may had one appearance or two in his videos.

thats me with the drone hahahha ()

 

[DudeFromPantanal]

@GreggZ @burr740 hello… what values would you recommend for a plain sand tank with and without CO2, weekly? based in your amount of experience?

 

[DudeFromPantanal]

@plantnoobdude these are some PAR measurements I did in early January this year.

Tank 1

View attachment 187347


Tank 2
View attachment 187349

Tank 3
View attachment 187350


Tank 4
View attachment 187351


Spirogyra is quite a stubborn algae. Tank 3 was pretty badly affected by spirogyra last summer (I was not doing regular water changes and tank maintenance). I tried to treat with excel and H2O2, it didn't work. I also lowered the light intensity but nothing happened. I even removed most of the badly affected plants along with doing all these chemical treatments and playing with light intensity, nothing worked for me. I finally tried API algaefix and it worked like magic, there was not even a single strand of spirogyra left after couple of weeks and it never returned back since then. I followed the guidelines on the bottle for dosing. I had some baby apistos in this tank and they were not affected by this treatment.

Hello Sir. This devide need what kinds of care and maintenance? to this need to be calibrated? how often? I am thinking in buy one at some point.