Planted tank sump design - need your feedback. :-)

[zozo]

While reading @DavidW 's post https://ukaps.org/forum/threads/juwel-trigon-350-build.41843/ I read @zozo
View attachment 110617

This was one of the first designs, maybe after changing a few things.. Since it is a trickle water actualy should trickle, so it devides evenly all over the media.
I added that diagonal ramp, to get the water overflowing to the midlle.. But still that didn't satisfy me.. Changed it agai.





I tossed the ramp and added 3 spray bars dripping on the media.. Also after a year running perfectly i tossed the floater switch, now it runs a year without.
The last bafle where the foam is is perforated, i blocked this with a piece of acrylic (red line in pic). Now the water flows verticaly through the last foam piece instead of horizontaly. It was a efficiency desicion, with an horizontal flow all the dirt stayed at the bottom range through the sponge. Now the water getting pushed up verticaly and it takes all off the sponge and not only half of it as in the pic above.



After adding the spray bars i also added low trailing plants, Bacopa and Hydrocotyl as helophytes.. I do not use a filter bag.. Filter bags get clogged with fine debri over time. Heavier solids sinck to the bottom anyway and stay there.. The little solids getting through the spraybar ending up in the plants are no problem, the plants take care of it.

Here it is in real life.. 🙂 Got 3 drip bars (originaly they are spray bars) Very rarely get blocked, if it is blocked 9 out of 10 it's a little snail.. In my experience my setup doesn't need a filter bag. I do not experience any pro's in using them..


There are not many heavy solids ending up in the sump anyway. After all an overflow in the tank only skims doesn't catch non floating debri.. Heavy solids non floating debri sincks to the substrate and stay in the aquarium, need to remove that with syphoning the tank when nessecary. 🙂 Every 2 sometimes 3 months or so i need to trim the sumps plants growing out (I did last weekend), than i also flush the sponges under the tap.. The plants will overgrow the drip bars in a week or 2 and shade them from light, even after months no algae growth in the drip bars.

Once a month i clean the last stage fine PPI polishing sponge Plants are very healthy and happy in my sump.. That's a very good indicator. 🙂

 

[Zak Rafik]

Hi everyone,
The sump design is coming along nicely and I must say it kind of fun!🙂
Anyway, I made some modification to my original design as shown below. I have had some beautiful ideas from the members in this forum and YouTube videos.

Apart from the positions of the baffles in the sump, the main addition and modification made are :

1). The addition of running a refugium (which will contain nutrient soaking plants like Ceratophyllum demersum 'Foxtail' or Salvinia adnata but definitely not duckweed though).

Basically, I'm looking for any floating plant which have medium to large leaves and does not need constant maintenance.

Question:
Now I need some pointers from you guys. Can you please infom :
What kind of floating plants I can have in the refugium that needs low to medium light?

Read that floating plants provide aeration to a planted tank. What's your opinion on this?
I know that floating plants soak up excess nutrients.

Or is the whole idea of running a refugium in the sump unnecessary.


2). I have the return pump function for dual purpose.
In my previous design the return pump was to pump back the water to the display tank only. The UV light would have a separate small pump for its purpose.
But now I have taken out the small pump for the UV light and have decided to run the UV light with a connection from the main pump.

This would help me in having one less pump that consumes power and generates heat in the sump. I will install a ball valve to the connection to the UV so that I can control the right flow for the UV to be effective.

Question:
Because the main pump will also be suking up Co2 from the attached inline to the main display tank, the water to the UV light will also be Co2 enriched.
Now my question is, will this lead me to increase the co2 rate to the inline diffuser as co2 will be lost in the refugium?
Or the other option is to have the return line from the UV light flow into the chamber where the main pump is.

What do you propose? Please let me know. Thanks.

 

[zozo]

I think a floater that doesn't need maintenance doesn't excist, they all have access to atmospheric co2 and if enough ferts grow rather fast. Light intensity doesn't realy make them grow faster or slower, it generaly reflects the size they grow in. For example salvinia stays rather small in lower light condition but still propagates as a racecar. in my experience. If you have enough height above the sump in the cabinet i definitively would go with a tray and some smaller trailing plant sp. growing emersed with only the roots hanging in the water. Hydroponic style. 🙂

That splitting the pump outlet as in the diagram, likely wont work as well as you expect.. Water takes the route of least resistance, since tubes get dirty there is no way of knowing what this will bring. It will result in all the water running over the UV light and about nothing to the tank or just dripping at the UV light and all to the tank. To get this working in a controled fashion you realy would need 2 pumps. Or toss the UV idea complletely, but thats a mater of personal opinion, mine is, it is UV is a waste of money.

 

[Zak Rafik]

That splitting the pump outlet as in the diagram, likely wont work as well as you expect.. Water takes the route of least resistance, since tubes get dirty there is no way of knowing what this will bring. It will result in all the water running over the UV light and about nothing to the tank or just dripping at the UV light and all to the tank. To get this working in a controled fashion you realy would need 2 pumps. Or toss the UV idea complletely, but thats a mater of personal opinion, mine is, it is UV is a waste of money.

Hi Zozo,🙂
I got the idea for splitting the connection from the main return pump after seeing many reef tanks examples.
Some salt water tanks have 3 to 4 split connections (used to run for may functions needed for reef tanks) from the main return pump. Example like below (highlighted in red box).

When we talk about the pipes getting blocked, I think reef tanks are many many times more prone to having pipes blocked or flow slowed due to salt buildup and other growths.
But I do have to agree with you on running a dedicated pump just for the UV. It does give some assurance that the main return pump is providing the right flow to the display tank.

Let's see what other members here have got to say about this.

Cheers.

 

[Zak Rafik]

I think a floater that doesn't need maintenance doesn't excist, they all have access to atmospheric co2 and if enough ferts grow rather fast. Light intensity doesn't realy make them grow faster or slower, it generaly reflects the size they grow in. For example salvinia stays rather small in lower light condition but still propagates as a racecar. in my experience. If you have enough height above the sump in the cabinet i definitively would go with a tray and some smaller trailing plant sp. growing emersed with only the roots hanging in the water. Hydroponic style.

I asked for refugium plants that does "not need constant maintenance" and "not NO maintenance"😉

The main reason I want to run a sump is for my maintenance of the filtration system to be as hassle free as possible.
But now that I read your comments, I may end up having to tend to the plants in the sump as well.😕
Not only do I have to look after the plants in the display tank now I may have to run separate lights and issues with regards to the plants in the sump.
I'm having 2nd thought now about the refugium.😱 I'll KIV this for now.

 

[zozo]

Hi Zozo,🙂
I got the idea for splitting the connection from the main return pump after seeing many reef tanks examples.
Some salt water tanks have 3 to 4 split connections (used to run for may functions needed for reef tanks) from the main return pump. Example like below (highlighted in red box).

When we talk about the pipes getting blocked, I think reef tanks are many many times more prone to having pipes blocked or flow slowed due to salt buildup and other growths.
But I do have to agree with you on running a dedicated pump just for the UV. It does give some assurance that the main return pump is providing the right flow to the display tank.

Let's see what other members here have got to say about this.

Cheers.

View attachment 110713

If you have a powerfull enough pump and the outlets close enough together with valves to regulate as in the pic, than it can work.. Seeing the 25mm tube, that installation must have quite a strong pump with a lot of head pressure to push that volume.. The further the 2 outlets are apart from eachother the more difficult it gets to create a constant same flow over both points. Simply because water tends to take the route of least resistance. And if over time this resistance changes due to dirt build up the flow patern changes.. It's not just my theory, i've tried it often enough to find out.. Be carefull with pictures on internet, lot of people tend not to feedback on DIY constructions that didn't work on the long run. 🙂 Usualy these topics about unexplored areas die sillently and turn into another topic with new ideas.

I asked for refugium plants that does "not need constant maintenance" and "not NO maintenance"😉

Sorry for the twisting of words, but whats constant? Once a week, once a month?. I'm not so sure if pantgrowth can be controlled like that. A planted tank needs ferts,, floaters gets the most co2 available and always grow the fastest in relation to the rest under the surface. You could try a nymphoides and leave it in the rockwool. 🙂 These are in my experience the slowest floaters if not planted in rich soil. But if you plan a high tech tank which means a high fert regime in the water colum i'm not so sure. Another possible option might be Hygroryza aristata, it doesn't propagate in seperate plantlets like duckweed or salvinia, it grows in long strains with rather long rootsystem. Makes it somewhat easier to maintain..

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Basically, I'm looking for any floating plant which have medium to large leaves and does not need constant maintenance.

I'd use Amazon Frogbit, it takes seconds to hook it out when you have too much, and each individual leaf is quite long lived.

cheers Darrel

 

[Daveslaney]

I would ditch the refugium you have the plants in your tank for this?
Filter sock Trickle filtration for bio will out perform any submerged filter 10 fold. Then polishing media of your choice filter wool ,carbon purgen all of these would work.
This IMHO would give you the best performing simple to maintain system🙂.

 

[Kezzab]

I've personally found floating plants don't do very well in my sump, i think because of the constant flow of water. I've used Peace Lillies in clay pebbles and found they grow very well.

 

[Zak Rafik]

Hi Dave, 🙂

I would ditch the refugium you have the plants in your tank for this?
Filter sock Trickle filtration for bio will out perform any submerged filter 10 fold. Then polishing media of your choice filter wool ,carbon purgen all of these would work.
This IMHO would give you the best performing simple to maintain system🙂.

I will be using a 200 micron filter sock. The size of each sock filter is 4 inch diameter by 16 inch long. I'll be using two filter socks in my planned sump.
Once the sump is up and running and observing flow, I'm planning to have a 100 micron filter sock for better mechanical filtration.
Plant to have a med light planted tank which will be densely planted ( maybe jungle style) and lots of small tetras (ember tetras, rummy noses, diamond tetras), shrimps and Ots.

I don't think I would need a trickle (wet/dry filter) for such small fish. Do I?
I'm also very concerned about the water trickling noise from a wet/dry filter,I don't think my wife will be pleased with it.

Yes, I'll be having purigen in the tank.

Cheers

 

[Zak Rafik]

I've personally found floating plants don't do very well in my sump, i think because of the constant flow of water. I've used Peace Lillies in clay pebbles and found they grow very well.
View attachment 110728

Hi Kezzab, 🙂
Yes I have read floating plants not doing well where there is constant high flow. I find @zozo 's idea of running a "Hydroponic" style. I can get some nice plants to grown on the coarse filter sponge.
Also it will look kind of cool actually and the added dash of colour in a drab looking sump area will be a nice touch.😎

Also I think lights for such plants need not be of high intensity.
Cheers.

 

[Zak Rafik]

Hi all, I'd use Amazon Frogbit, it takes seconds to hook it out when you have too much, and each individual leaf is quite long lived.

cheers Darrel

Hi dw1305,🙂
I plan to use Amazon frogbits during the initial stage of cycling the tank. I'll be using ADA aquasoil.
Just wanted to know if it can be completely removed from the tank once I don't need it. What do you say?
I know that duckweed is a pain to completely remove from a tank.

 

[Zak Rafik]

If you have a powerfull enough pump and the outlets close enough together with valves to regulate as in the pic, than it can work.. Seeing the 25mm tube, that installation must have quite a strong pump with a lot of head pressure to push that volume.. The further the 2 outlets are apart from eachother the more difficult it gets to create a constant same flow over both points. Simply because water tends to take the route of least resistance. And if over time this resistance changes due to dirt build up the flow patern changes.. It's not just my theory, i've tried it often enough to find out.. Be carefull with pictures on internet, lot of people tend not to feedback on DIY constructions that didn't work on the long run. 🙂 Usualy these topics about unexplored areas die sillently and turn into another topic with new ideas.

Sorry for the twisting of words, but whats constant? Once a week, once a month?. I'm not so sure if pantgrowth can be controlled like that. A planted tank needs ferts,, floaters gets the most co2 available and always grow the fastest in relation to the rest under the surface. You could try a nymphoides and leave it in the rockwool. 🙂 These are in my experience the slowest floaters if not planted in rich soil. But if you plan a high tech tank which means a high fert regime in the water colum i'm not so sure. Another possible option might be Hygroryza aristata, it doesn't propagate in seperate plantlets like duckweed or salvinia, it grows in long strains with rather long rootsystem. Makes it somewhat easier to maintain..

Hi Zozo,🙂
I can't agree with you any more about what you have said about taking information from the net.
"Be careful with pictures on internet, lot of people tend not to feedback on DIY constructions that didn't work on the long run." what you said is 101% accurate.

I have given up on the idea of running a refugium in my sump. Apart from finding the right kind of plants, I will also have to block the lights from spreading to the other sump compartments and that could lead to algae issue.
By removing the refugium area, I can make the sump shorter or increase the filter media area (BioHome etc..)

If I should want to have some plants in the sump later on, I can always copy your "hydroponic" style setup.

As for splitting the return pump to run the UV, I'll decide before I purchase the pump. It will be the last equipment I will install as I have yet to set up the plumbing pipes with all the elbow connections and union fittings.
I don't want to end up with a under rated pump.

BTW, the overflow box will be arriving in 10 days time. All excited about it.😀

 

[Zak Rafik]

There is a LFS that is closing down and they're selling off their tanks at dirt cheap prices. I'll be going tomorrow and hope to get a nice tank for the sump.
Today I have enquired at glass shop and the price for a new custom built sump tank is also reasonable. So wish me luck.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Just wanted to know if it can be completely removed from the tank once I don't need it. What do you say?

No problem at all, it is quite a big chunky plant, and doesn't grew from rosette fragments or seed.

Mine never looks this healthy, but this is what it looks like <"when it is enjoying itself">.



cheers Darrel

 

[Edvet]

I can't agree with you any more about what you have said about taking information from the net.
"Be careful with pictures on internet, lot of people tend not to feedback on DIY constructions that didn't work on the long run." what you said is 101% accurate.

Thats so good in this forum. Long time users and journals.

 

[Kezzab]

Weirdly in my planted sump I have never had any algae at all on anything, emersed or submersed, despite the light being on 11hrs a day.

By contrast in the display tank I've had all sorts. Go figure.

And the DIY trickle filter I've made is now running silent, too.

Just experiment with the sump. Once you have the basic media in you'll already have more filter than a normal canister and you'll have all the remaining space to mess about with.

 

[Zak Rafik]

Weirdly in my planted sump I have never had any algae at all on anything, emersed or submersed, despite the light being on 11hrs a day.
By contrast in the display tank I've had all sorts. Go figure.
And the DIY trickle filter I've made is now running silent, too.
Just experiment with the sump. Once you have the basic media in you'll already have more filter than a normal canister and you'll have all the remaining space to mess about with.

Hi Kezzab 🙂
That's good to hear.
BTW, when growing plants in the sump area, do the lights in the sump and display tank come on at the same time or on an alternate basis?
Cheers.

 

[Edvet]

Would emersed growing plants add oxygen to the water?? Or are they just used for using up ferts?? I can see using emersed plants in a no plants setup would be usefull to use N and P, but in a planted tank the only use i can see is adding oxygen to the water during the night. Dont they have to be submerged and on an alternate schedule?? For adding oxygen to the sump a tricklefilter would be better surely.

 

[Zak Rafik]

Would emersed growing plants add oxygen to the water?? Or are they just used for using up ferts?? I can see using emersed plants in a no plants setup would be usefull to use N and P, but in a planted tank the only use i can see is adding oxygen to the water during the night. Dont they have to be submerged and on an alternate schedule?? For adding oxygen to the sump a tricklefilter would be better surely.

@zozo , @Edvet, @dw1305 @Daveslaney @Kezzab , would appreciate your feedback on this. Please see below diagram.

While reading Edvet's comment and on adding O2 to the tank at night, I came up with this "idea".
How about if I install air wands hooked up onto an air pump? I can have it in the sump chamber where I had wanted the refugium?
I have a spare Eheim 400 which can be put on a timer and have it turn on when the Co2 switches off? What do you think? Pros & Cons?

Thanx in advance.🙂
Cheers