New tank green algae outbreak

[AndyMcD]

Unfortunately, the Rhizoclonium algae outbreak has taken a turn for the worse!

I've decided to try and fight this by improving the environment for the plants. This may seem strange but since 'going live' with this aquascape I have been trying to run it with low light / low ferts. However, I think the plants are suffering, which means organics feeding the algae / plants unable to compete. If I'm going to find the right balance for the tank, I'm going to have to increase light.

I've bought and installed a CO2 system (CO2Art regulator plus 2kg CO2 cylinder). Been running this for about 4 days.

I'm running at about 2bps. Drop checker is green/blue. Also, still dosing maximum Easycarbo daily.

Since adding CO2, I've been adding TNC Complete at recommended dosage. I've also been adding a teaspoon of TNC GH Boost as water is soft.

I've still got the lights low (level 6/24) and a 5.5 hour photoperiod (45 min ramp up and down).

I've got some BGA appearing (high light?).

Floating plants are going mad. They're now covering about 2/3 of surface. I guess I need to remove some, but worried this may make situation worse.

I've developed a couple of tools to help manually remove the algae. Imagine vacuum cleaner attachments for your gravel cleaner. I've bought a couple of 1 inch conduit connectors. My gravel cleaner should fit into the connector from below. I'm hoping I can scrape the glass and trim the algae / plants and suck the algae and spores out of the tank with the water (similar to George Farmer's moss trimming technique).

I'm going to see if I can manually remove as much as I can. I'm going to trim the plants for the first time too.

I'm considering a blackout, but wonder if plants already weak due to low light.

I'd very much appreciate advice.

 

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

I definitely think you need to increase fertilisation. The original dose you quoted (1.2ml per day of TNC Complete) was little over half the recommended weekly dose of 14ml for your 140 litre tank.

My little 25 litre nano tank is quite heavily planted and has two LED lights, giving a total of 2000 lumens but I'm only running them at 60% for 9 hours (which includes a 1 hour ramp up and ramp down, so only 7 hours at the 'full' 60%). I am also running pressurised CO₂. I read that you can approximate EI by dosing the full amount 2 or 3 times a week, so for the last month or so I've been dosing 1ml (half a dose) TNC Complete every day, which is roughly three times the normally recommended dosage per week. I have virtually no algae; in fact, my brown hair algae bloom packed its bags and disappeared at about the same time that I started this bigger dose of fertiliser.

For your larger tank, the same regime would require about 7ml of Complete per day, which might get expensive. But you could try dosing the full amount twice a week and see how you get on.

 

[AndyMcD]

Mike, thank you for your reply.

With new tanks, the overwhelming opinion seems to be to keep lights and ferts low. Often, the issue is people have been running with too much light.

The trouble is, I now feel I have done that and ended up with algae anyway (probably due to insufficient water changes).

I've tried to keep my lights and ferts low, but I think the plants are suffering over an extended amount of time and cannot compete so well with the algae.

Having added CO2, I've reached a fork in the road. I can either improve the environment for the plants more and begin adding more ferts and light (slowly) or go the other way and blackout for 3 days.

I agree with your opinion, I need to start adding more ferts and improve the environment for the plants.

Even if the algae does not miraculously disappear over the next few weeks, at least the plants will go into a blackout stronger. More growth will mean I can trim more frequently too.

 

[AndyMcD]

The scraping attachment worked well. The scissor attachment didn't.

I've done a really deep clean and big water change today.

I've trimmed the worst affected plants.

I think I'm going to reduce the light intensity from 6 to 5 out of 24 and increase the photoperiod to 7.5 hours (from 5.5 hours).

I've got rid of about 2/3 of the floating plants, as they may be competing for light (shading) and ferts too much with the plants.

I'll go with TNC's standard dosage for now. Lights and CO2 still quite low.

 

[AndyMcD]

The previous approach hasn't worked well. This is a shot of my tank AFTER a deep clean. I am definitely losing the battle. I'm going to have do something more drastic.

I've just been re-reading a post of Tom Barr's from 2009:

I do a black out for 2-3 days, add Excel daily at full labeled dose, turn off CO2 and do a water change or two. It's gone thereafter. Focus on water changes and good CO2 for the next 2 weeks and you should be okay. Regards, Tom Barr

Also:

FYI, I've had Rhizo on HC and this method does no harm to HC, Gloss will get leggy with a BO, HC des not. 3 Days is all you need, cover the tank, increase the flow/aeration etc, disconnect CO2 etc. Do a large water change before and after, dose, and then make sure the CO2 is good, maybe add carbon to the filter/Clean filter etc. Then do another water change 2-3 days later and another 2-3 days after that. Tweak CO2 good and make sure the Excel is added etc. Reduce the light some and wait from there, also, trim often as needed. It's not hard to get rid of. Regards, Tom Barr

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...ded.html#/forumsite/20495/topics/86697?page=1

My plan is:
1. Do a 3 day black out.
2. Turn down the light a little and try and hit the sweet spot, now I have CO2. Improve flow by adding second external filter. Focus on getting healthy plants.
3. Consider using Interpret Anti Hair Algae to prevent re-occurrence.

I'd very much appreciate people's opinions.

 

[xim]

You started this tank on 7 Jan, which is about 2 months by now.
The tank has not matured yet. And you waited too long before
taking real action (I mean 1 amano shrimp and some Otos was
like doing nothing), giving algae the chance to multiply to this level.

21 Amano shrimp now correct?

I think you have to be patient. It took 4 months for me to "start" to see improvement.
And from the photo taken after a "deep clean", your deep-cleaning doesn't seem
to be very effective, you should have suctioned those green thread algae out as well.

I had tried blackout, didn't work. But I didn't have enough algae eater back then.
So it may work for you.

 

[rebel]

Easiest to remove all shrimp then dose with Algaefix. Big water changes and shrimp back in after 4 days.

 

[xim]

Easiest to remove all shrimp then dose with Algaefix. Big water changes and shrimp back in after 4 days.

This method is pretty popular among Southeast Asia hobbyists as well and seems to give good quick results.
I haven't tried that though in my case.

 

[AndyMcD]

Xim and Rebel, thank you for replying.

I agree that the tank is still immature and I haven't taken enough action early on. The rate of growth seems to have got worse since adding CO2. I've made the mistake of changing plants while it is still settling. Too many organics.

I've added 11 Amano shrimp, four Ottos plus two Nerite snails. The maximum Amano shrimp I've seen is five. They may be shy or there are dead shrimp hiding somewhere. I agree, I need to add more.

It's very difficult to remove the algae. I've tried a toothbrush which works where it is thickest. The gravel cleaner isn't very effective, but I can use it to trim the algae and suck it up.

I think I'll try a blackout for 3 days, then follow this with the Interpret. I'd prefer not to use chemicals at all.

After the blackout, I'll drop the light intensity and add a second external filter (with fish from previous tank - not wanted to add more organics while algae getting worse). Hopefully, this will make it easier for the plants to compete (if they survive the blackout). I'll add more shrimp after the blackout too.

Thanks for your replies. I'd be interested to hear what you think.


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[Sk3lly]

Your plants will survive just fine with 3 days of blackout. Plants are tough! They can survive around the world shipping in dark boxes, so im sure 3 days wont cause them any harm


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[AndyMcD]

Sk3lly, didn't think about shipping. Of course! Andy


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[xim]

Xim and Rebel, thank you for replying.

I agree that the tank is still immature and I haven't taken enough action early on. The rate of growth seems to have got worse since adding CO2. I've made the mistake of changing plants while it is still settling. Too many organics.

I've added 11 Amano shrimp, four Ottos plus two Nerite snails. The maximum Amano shrimp I've seen is five. They may be shy or there are dead shrimp hiding somewhere. I agree, I need to add more.

It's very difficult to remove the algae. I've tried a toothbrush which works where it is thickest. The gravel cleaner isn't very effective, but I can use it to trim the algae and suck it up.

I think I'll try a blackout for 3 days, then follow this with the Interpret. I'd prefer not to use chemicals at all.

After the blackout, I'll drop the light intensity and add a second external filter (with fish from previous tank - not wanted to add more organics while algae getting worse). Hopefully, this will make it easier for the plants to compete (if they survive the blackout). I'll add more shrimp after the blackout too.

Thanks for your replies. I'd be interested to hear what you think.


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I use an air hose to suction them out. For stronger strands, when parts of them
are sucked into the hose, close the hose opening with your finger and pull to tear them.
The ones that are short or too much entangled with plants or mosses are shrimp's jobs.

The above image is from an ADA guide: http://www.adana.co.jp/en/contents/process/index.html

Don't be surprised when they grow faster with CO2, green filamentous algae
are like plants and share the same basic needs. This is what Tom Barr has said
(except the word "don't be surprised" ).

As for reducing light after the black-out, I don't know if you have "too much" or
"just right" at the moment. So I would say from my experience that you can't
rely on running a planted tank with "too low" lighting to avoid algae.
The green algae would still persist on the upper region close to the light
while your plants having growth problem. As you've said, you have to find
the sweet spot.

 

[AndyMcD]

Xim, thank you very much. Very helpful. I will definitely try air hose, as suggested. Andy


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[dw1305]

Hi all,

Don't be surprised when they grow faster with CO2, green filamentous algae
are like plants and share the same basic needs.

So I would say from my experience that you can't rely on running a planted tank with "too low" lighting to avoid algae.The green algae would still persist on the upper region close to the light while your plants having growth problem. As you've said, you have to find the sweet spot.

I think this as well, green algae, mosses, ferns and higher plants are all in the clade <"Viridiplantae">.

If you have a <"large plant mass it definitely reduces algal growth">, but we don't know exactly why.

This I think is from Tropica originally <via "AquaEssentials">.

cheers Darrel

 

[AndyMcD]

Darrel,

thank you very much for replying.

I understand that if I make the conditions better for the plants, this algae is likely to benefit also.

Therefore, to attempt to reset the tank, I need to starve the algae of light in the hope that it is more fragile than the plants. I may follow this up with Interpret, to kick it when it is down.

However, I'll then need to improve the conditions for the plants and find the sweet spot.

A greater army of clean up crew should hopefully prevent re-occurrence, helping to keep young algae under control.

Faster plant growth will help with plant mass and also allow me to trim affected areas more frequently.

Thank you

Andy




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[dw1305]

Hi all,

The previous approach hasn't worked well. This is a shot of my tank AFTER a deep clean. I am definitely losing the battle. I'm going to have do something more drastic.

I think you need some floating plants.

However, I'll then need to improve the conditions for the plants and find the sweet spot.

I don't use added CO2, or try to limit the light intensity or light period.

I just put whatever light I have on a 12 hour day, and then I let the plant mass fill out until it reaches approximate stability. I only feed the plants when the floating plants show deficiency symptoms, via the <"Duckweed Index">.

The only plants that I regularly thin are the floating plants, and I adjust these to about 2/3 cover in summer and 1/3 - 1/2 cover in winter (when there is less ambient light). If I don't have much light, I have fewer floaters.

cheers Darrel

 

[AndyMcD]

Darrel,

I've previously taken your advice and added Pistia Stratiotes. It's growing incredibly well and last week I removed 2/3, to leave a small portion of the tank covered. By last night (approx 10 days later), at least 1/3 of the tank was covered.

Removing so many plants last weekend has probably contributed to the sudden increase in the algae last week.

I also so have a bunch of Elodea in the tank.

I would have been so much happier with a low tech tank!!!

Thank you for your help.

Andy




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[dw1305]

Hi all,

It's growing incredibly well and last week I removed 2/3, to leave a small portion of the tank covered. By last night (approx 10 days later), at least 1/3 of the tank was covered. Removing so many plants last weekend has probably contributed to the sudden increase in the algae last week.

OK, that probably is a contributory factor. Because floaters have access to aerial CO2 (400 ppm) they aren't carbon limited and if nutrients are available they will grow really quickly.

I always want my plants to grow more slowly, rather than more quickly.

Against that I've never had any luck with carpets, probably because the bottoms of my tanks are both gloomy and CO2 depleted.

cheers Darrel

 

[GTL_UK]

Hi. Had same issues. Two things Ive done: up your co2, ignore drop checkers etc just increase it. Secondly add 3-5 young true Siamese algae eaters and don't feed them at all. 2-3 weeks later my tank was algae free

Thanks

 

[AndyMcD]

The blackout has begun.