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New tank green algae outbreak

AndyMcD

Member
Joined
7 Mar 2015
Messages
362
Location
South Manchester
:(About two weeks ago, I planted up a new tank (http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/after-the-riffle-140l-liquid-carbon.38821/).

Tank volume: 140L
Light: Arcadia OTL LED
Light level: 33% (level 8/24)
Photoperiod: 5 hours (45 min ramp up / ramp down)
Carbon: 6ml Easycarbo per day 30 mins before lights on
Fertiliser: TNC Complete - about 1.2ml per day
Substrate: ADA Amazonia
Filtration: JBL CristalProfi 700L/Hour plus Eheim Aquaball Filter 130 550 L/Hour (temporary, will be adding an Eheim external filter with fish). Plants moving in flow even on substrate.
Water changes: 30% every 3 or 4 days
Fauna: Ottos X 4 + Amano shrimp X 1
Fast growing plants: Rotala green and Lindernia Rotundifolia

I ran the tank for several weeks to cycle the filters and Aquasoil before planting.

I started a thread asking for help about what power to set the light (http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/arcadia-80-otl-led-power-setting.39237/). No replies :(

I am now massively struggling with algae. The tank is literally being overrun by green hair like algae. All plants are gradually being covered in a haze of green hair.

I have tried using a tooth brush and / or gravel cleaner to remove, but it clings on and I am struggling to remove without uprooting the plants that are not yet established.

My plan is:

- Reduce light level to 25% (6/24) - Glosso growing vertically suggesting lower light
- Water change
- Buy CO2 kit and ditch liquid carbon
- Buy Amano shrimp
- Stop dosing fertiliser

Please can someone advise what I would be best doing? Do you think this is an initial tank set up issue that will clear? I'm very concerned that this isn't a temporary diatom algae outbreak!

Help me UKAPS, you're my only hope!

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This is just what I think others may have another solution . If the hair algae has got so bad you cannot manually remove it all I would firstly use a product such as interprets anti hair algae to get rid of excess amounts,remove any plants beyongd saving and then start preventive measures such as clean gravel vac the substrate regularly. Using George Farmers tip about temporary sticking black tape to cover the glass at substrate level if you have sunlight or strong natural light catching the tank,updating to pressurised CO2 and reducing lighting or raising lighting to reduce intensity try to ensure it has good flow. Finally I wouldn't stop fertilisers.
 
Forgot would not stop liquid carbon unless you have plants that can't thrive with it.Pressurised CO2 and liquid carbon would be a better combination and increase water changes as your intending
 
Last edited:
Hi, I have/had a similar issue in my 165L tank recently. Green hair algae started to appear a few weeks after I started dosing Easycarbo to deal with BBA. I was dosing 2.5ml every other day. You say you are dosing 6ml each day?? That seems a lot to me! Why are you dosing so much over the recommended amount specified on the bottle? I've just this week started to only dose it twice a week to see if that stops the hair algae reappearing.
 
Paraguay and Miss Pennyapple, thank you for coming back to me.

Paraguay, thanks for your reply. This has happened within days. Mid winter here and in rainy Manchester. No issue with natural sunlight!

Miss Pennyapple, I note you had a similar issue. Trying to match carbon input to light level. If I was using CO2, would increase if algae an issue. Also, liquid carbon supposed to be an algaecide.

From EasyLife.nl website:

Tips for Usage

aquarium with only a few plants : 1 ml per 100 litres daily

aquarium moderately planted : 1 ml per 50 litres daily

aquarium heavily planted : 1 ml per 25 litres daily

150L/25L = 6mL daily.

Ceg4048 and TGM website state that overdosing may be necessary to achieve success with liquid carbon. However, near to bear in mind that Ottos could be sensitive.

Also note, liquid carbon breaks down within 24 hours.


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Commiserations!

You might add a couple of these Stiphodon Gobies (they often arrive at the shops rather emaciated so maybe you could "foster" several until tank is done with it's algae period)

Yes CO2 gas is more efficiently used by most plants, but you can succeed using liquid carbon

Daily water changes & algae removal (not so easy as plants are not rooted)

Some of the plants on your list do prefer CO2 gas over liquid CO2

Did you add existing filter media (from other tank) to this tank?

ADA protocol is daily 50% water changes for the first couple of weeks - it's not clear to me whether you ever did this process - then alternate day changes etc ...

(ADA also offers a solution that should help discourage algaes - "phyton git" perhaps)

(you'd asked these questions elsewhere - don't trim stem plants until they are relatively established, eg, wait 2-4 weeks (or whatever) depending on growth rate)
 
Sorry not really very helpful :oops:

A shrimp army will also help - they are much more efficient & more delicate at picking algae than human hands - Amano shrimp but also Tiger Shrimp, look at what's available & price.

A warning about the Stiphodons, they like to burrow - I have a female & initially she seemed to dig a fair bit, now I don't see any signs (though when I tried to net her, she dove into the soil substrate & disappeared)

You could try a 3 day "blackout" but I'd hesitate with such immature plants - "melt" + algae would be even less fun

Do continue fertilizing - it's very difficult to "starve" algae anyway & may benefit the struggling plants

Lighting 5 hours + 45min ramp up & 45 min ramp down ie 6 1/2 hours or so - or 5h total?
If the former, I'd shorten the "ramp" times to 15-20 min each & then 4h of full lights (at whatever light intensity)

Arcadia OTL LED
The freshwater pendant which is perfect for fish systems and heavily planted aquascaped systems is providing a HUGE 280 PAR at 300mm THROUGH WATER!
- from Arcadia site so yes, reduce light intensity ... you really want CO2 gas for that sort of PAR (assuming values are representative - note the shape of the light distribution curves)

Maybe also add some floating plants if available
 
Picked up five Amano shrimp on the way home from work this evening. Population now 6 shrimp. Tropica would recommend about 28.

From all your suggestions, I think I'm going wrong due to:

- Insufficient water changes - I cycled the filter and substrate for about 5 weeks, changing about 30% once to twice per week. I did try seeding using mature media from an existing filter, but had issues starting the filter so this may have failed. Since planting I've kept up the same level. This is no where near the ADA recommendation of 50% per day for first week. I had hoped by cycling the substrate this could be avoided. Going to perform some major changes and see if this makes a difference.

- Lighting too intense - 5 hours includes ramp up and down of 45 mins each (cannot change). I'll amend to give a 4 hour at peak (total photoperiod 5.5 hours). I'll keep max intensity between 25 and 33%. Need plants to grow so don't want to drop too much (also think I should add some fertiliser - more likely to starve plants than algae).

- Using liquid carbon rather than CO2 - Insufficient carbon for lighting level. Cannot go higher with liquid carbon, already dosing very heavily. Will buy CO2. Plants able to use CO2 more efficiently.

I will wait before trimming the plants. However, I did remove some Lindernia yesterday as badly affected and preventing flow.

Thank you again for all your responses. Much appreciated.
 
Heres whats going on,
Your new plants are melting as they adjust to your tank, leaving tiny bits of dead plant all over your tank, that causes ammonia spikes which in turn leads to algea.
Water change as often as you can, trim decaying leaves off plants, stir your gravel vac gently around spots that could build up with dead plant and fish waste and siphon it away, just take real care not to uproot your plants at this early stage.
If you are dosing any fert's id cut them right back for a couple of weeks untill your plants are rooted and showing signs of new growth, keep up the co2 dosing as normal and ramp up the ferts slowly as your plants mature.
Your doing the right thing with your lights, keep them on low and for a short period and ramp it up over time like the ferts. Your "bottleneck" will be co2 as you already know, liquid co2 will only get you so far (still amazing for algea control).
Also think about the flow of water around your tank, is there any parts of the water that wouldnt get water flow? Would the bottom of the tank have still or barely moving water? A big turning point in my battle against every algea under the sun was the day i figured out proper water flow.
Help your plants fight that algea!!!
 
depending on your budget & longterm goals, it's quite possible to set up yeast generated CO2 to get you over this "algae flux" - while yeast CO2 may be less consistent than gas cyclinder CO2, there are methods you can utilize to even the levels (& it's certainly easy to deliver enough CO2 to gas fish)

A cycled tank/filter has an array of bacteria etc that may have significant impact on plants vs algae ... ADA Amazonia releases A LOT of ammonia (likely enough to impact the inhabitants of the "cycled" filter) so unless you have A LOT of plants & fast growth, I suspect those daily water changes significantly impact the tank microflora etc ... there's a journal here somewhere that records all sorts of exciting algae battles including one akin to your own attack - unfortunately I cant recall enough details to find it :oops: :sorry:
 
Ryan12345 and Alto, thank you very much for your replies.

I sent a PM yesterday to DW1305 (Darrell) to highlight this thread and ask help in identifying the algae. He suggested Rhizoclonium, Oedogonium or a green form of diatoms. Looking at images of the three and previous outbreaks on UKAPS, I suspect Rhizoclonium.

Ryan12345, plants are melting and as you say will be causing ammonia spike. Was reading that proteins require higher proportion of nitrogen to carbon, which means ammonia acts as the basic building block. I'm seeing collection of bubbles and can feel a film on top of the water, which I'm guessing is protein. I'm raising the internal filter at night to increase aeration, to try and break this up.

I took a sample of water to my local fish store and asked them to test. Ammonia, nitrate and nitrite all acceptably low. Hardness levels are low as soft water area. pH low ~ 6.5, I guess due to soft water and ADA Amazonia. Been looking at TNC hardness booster.

While at the LFS, I bought some floating plants (Pistia stratiotes I think) and a bunch of Elodea, which I will keep in the metal strip. I figured these 'healthy' plants will help absorb excess nutrients in the next few weeks and I can remove once I've reached more of a balance.

I'd not thought of it before, but plants introduce an ammonia spike / additional bio load in the first few weeks. Even having matured the filters for a few weeks, by adding the plants, I've still increased the bio load significantly, probably more than the bacteria population can respond to.

I hadn't appreciated how much the plants would die off before recovering. No wonder the first few weeks are so risky in terms of algae growth. All these failing plants are adding so much organic carbon and ammonia to the tank.

I've added another 5 Amano shrimp taking the total population to 11.

I've changed the lighting to total period of 5.5 hours, with a ramp up of 45 mins, 4 hours steady and ramp down for 45 mins. I have turned the light intensity down to 25% (6/24). This would suggest a PAR of 70 (280/4) at 300mm.
 
This weekend, I have:
- Added ten Amano shrimp
- Added water lettuce (Pistia Stratiotes)
- Added Elodea
- Performed a 60% water change
- Cleaned the filters
- Changed lighting period to 5.5 hours at 25% of max intensity
 
I would suggest doubling or tripling the liquid carbon. But before you do that, grab a few tufts of the algae, put them on a spoon or tiny container, and drop some pure liquid carbon on them, see if that kills them. I've strangely had green thread algae that would die while some just wouldn't. Looked exactly the same with the naked eye.
 
Flygja, thanks for the suggestion.

I will certainly do the test as I may be able to use this to spot dose or remove some of the hardscape / plants on wood etc.

However, with Ottos and shrimp in the tank I now need to be careful about how much I add each day.

Currently I am adding 6mL per day, which is highest dosage on Easycarbo's instructions. Not exceeded their dosage yet.

Thank you for the tip.


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Thanks very for all your advice. I seem to have turned the corner with the algae outbreak.

I think what worked for me:
- water changes
- floating plants (Pistia Stratiotes)
- fast growing stem plant (Elodea)
- Ottos
- Amano shrimp
- Nerite snails
- Photoperiod of 5.5 hours (4 hours at max)
- low light intensity (level 5 of 24)
- adding a reduced dose of fertiliser
- Max Easycarbo daily dose
- UKAPS!

I've bought a CO2 kit. Just need to get a CO2 cylinder. Once installed, I am going to gradually increase light and fertilisation.
 
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