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Lots of Dry Start Method questions!

Very interesting thread this is turning into George don't have any advice on dsm as I've never attempted one I do have one question though will the manzi be pre soaked or will you rely on the daily sprays to water log the branches just I've found manzi very light and it'll happily float for a couple of weeks or do you already have a plan to keep the wood down
 
Hi Tim,

Thanks. 🙂

Good question!

This wood seems to sink really easily; just a day or so submerged and it sinks.

Much of it is actually partially buried in the substrate, or held in position with the rocks, so I'm hopeful that it will stay down when I eventually fill with water. If it doesn't it will make a right old mess and I won't be happy bunny.

Funnily enough it's happened to Amano during a live demo, so even the master isn't immune to the odd floater! lol
 
Hi all,
George Farmer said:
What's the idea behind the green plastic bottles? Is it simply to cut out light, or is there a spectrum aspect too?
Click to expand...
I've used them to reduce the light intensity, but dependent upon colour there may be spectral effects as well. I used green, because it was the easiest coloured bottle to get, and it did the job. I've never really thought about it, but at the forest floor, most of the light will have been pre-filtered via the canopy, so there may be spectral advantages for mosses, but I doubt it, as they have the same chlorophyll as the higher plants.

The problem with a moss like Fissidens is that it has very thin "leaves" (microphylls), lots of chlorophyll (that why shade plants are such a dark green), and no vascular tissue (xylem) to conduct water to the photosynthetic surfaces. If you blast it with photons, the excess energy is likely damage the "leaves", and if the humidity drops the "leaves" will loose water quicker than they can replace it. Because of this, for moss establishment you want relatively low light and most importantly100% humidity, CO2 levels are very unlikely to limit growth in this situation.

The vascular plants are slightly different, they have connective tissue, and the transpiration stream will pull moisture through the leaves, even when they have no roots, if the column of water from the substrate to the leaves is intact. So assuming we can keep the water reservoir topped up, and the atmosphere humid enough that evaporation doesn't exceed transpiration, rooting will be quicker with more light intensity (again assuming that the light intensity isn't high enough to damage the leaves). I don't think CO2 will be a problem, but traditionally you breathed into plastic bags of cuttings etc, this is supposed to have the advantages of the exhaled air being CO2 rich and at 100% humidity.
foxfish said:
Here is what happens if you don't flood the tank, this one was left for about 8 weeks
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That is perfect, you can see the water on the Hydrocotyle leaf surfaces, and the moss doesn't have any browning on the tips etc.

cheers Darrel
 
Thanks, Martyn and Darrel.

Darrel - so would you advocate the use of a heat mat to promote humidity for the mosses?

Very interesting to hear about high light potentially causing issue. I was considering lowering the lights nearer the tank but don't think I will...

It seems the combination of having 'normal' plants and mosses using DSM could be troublesome - we shall see!

Thanks again,
George
 
George Farmer said:
Hi Tim,

Thanks. 🙂

Good question!

This wood seems to sink really easily; just a day or so submerged and it sinks.

Much of it is actually partially buried in the substrate, or held in position with the rocks, so I'm hopeful that it will stay down when I eventually fill with water. If it doesn't it will make a right old mess and I won't be happy bunny.

Funnily enough it's happened to Amano during a live demo, so even the master isn't immune to the odd floater! lol
Click to expand...

Use placement sinker rocks for 1-2 weeks and test it VERY gently by lifting the stone and seeing if the wood moved.
Amano knows this trick.

I cannot redo a 400 Gallon tank when I have to be out of the area in 2 hours.
They can live with a placement sinker stone for a few days/weeks.
 
dean said:
Great thread guys
I've just read the propagating cuttings link and I have a question, anyone ever use rooting powder on their cuttings?
Click to expand...

Not for moss, and frankly, there's little need to use plant growth regulators on super fast growing herbaceous weeds, they allocate the resources to roots.
Gloss, HC, Hair grass etc, all just sit there for a 1-2 weeks, they are growing roots, then, you start to see above ground growth.
Most stem plants grow at break neck speeds at both ends.

If you want faster regrowth, add more light/CO2 and ferts, the basic building blocks of growth, PGR's simple change allocation of the basic building blocks, they do not ADD more growth.
This is a common misconception with the public.

PGR's are good for crops for fruit and flowers, since the plant is a slave to those organs like Fruit, that we want from it.
We do not want those traits in aquatic vegetative growth however.
 
im not too familiar with the 1-2-grow products but we get anubias plants down here in SA and im sure it’s a similar tissue culture growing process. We find if you don’t clean as much of the agar gel off the plants especially the UG, once submerged it grow this horrible mould that ends up killing the plant.
 
I have a dry start moving along at the moment, just getting last few items before I flood.

I have a couple of questions?

I'm running my lights for 12 hours a day. Do I need to kill the light all the way down to 5 hours when I flood to minimalist the threat of algae?

The substrate was new tropica under new Amazonia. Do I do daily water changes like I was starting a new tank?

Do I bash out as much co2 as I dare until the plants have adapted, then what's the process of turning down the co2 to livestock levels?
 
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