In need of plant advice

[Bacom]

All I'm after is a low tech tank to be honest, I've just changed the light over and it's looking pretty dim, going to cut the bad leaves later and what's next? It's worth noting that I have another tank which is doing absolutely fine with easy plants ( java fern, anubias, windelov) no ferts or extra co2 just water changes. That tanks a lot smaller though and has low light and fully stocked (pic attached) so what's the next step for the big tank now? Thanks


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[Bacom]

Would it be a bad idea to actually remove the plants to remove the bad leaves and roots? It would make it easier just want to make sure they will go back ok. Also should I just cut a few leaves off each plant?


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[dw1305]

Hi all,

Would I be better going for an aquarium liquid fertiliser or what you suggested?

You need to add both.

You need all the nutrients required for plant growth, if you have all of them, except one, you won't get any growth. Plant growth is like a production line, it moves at the rate of the availability of the limiting nutrient.

A <"complete fertiliser"> should provide all the nutrients your plants need.

Plants require nutrients in different amounts, in order of amount, starting with carbon (C), and then the three macro-elements, nitrogen (N), potassium (K) and phosphorus (P), followed by magnesium (Mg), calcium (Ca) etc all the way down to boron (B), molybdenum (Mn) etc.

Carbon dioxide availability is low in water, but the atmosphere has ~400ppm, so a floating plant won't be carbon limited.

Plants can only take up the mineral nutrients as ions (charged particles) like K+ and NO3-.

Iron (Fe++(+)) isn't required in large amounts, but it is essential and poses particular problems in keeping it in solution (as an ion) in hard water.

cheers Darrel

 

[Bacom]

Hi all, You need to add both.

You need all the nutrients required for plant growth, if you have all of them, except one, you won't get any growth. Plant growth is like a production line, it moves at the rate of the availability of the limiting nutrient.

A <"complete fertiliser"> should provide all the nutrients your plants need.

Plants require nutrients in different amounts, in order of amount, starting with carbon (C), and then the three macro-elements, nitrogen (N), potassium (K) and phosphorus (P), followed by magnesium (Mg), calcium (Ca) etc all the way down to boron (B), molybdenum (Mn) etc.

Carbon dioxide availability is low in water, but the atmosphere has ~400ppm, so a floating plant won't be carbon limited.

Plants can only take up the mineral nutrients as ions (charged particles) like K+ and NO3-.

Iron (Fe++(+)) isn't required in large amounts, but it is essential and poses particular problems in keeping it in solution (as an ion) in hard water.

cheers Darrel

Thanks, I wasn't aware root feeders would actually need liquid fertiliser, that's why I went for root tabs. So what's recommended as a complete fertiliser? I was going to get seachem flourish but is there something that's would be better?

Edit: just realised you linked
Me to tnc so would tnc complete be the one to go for?
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[dw1305]

Hi all,

I wasn't aware root feeders would actually need liquid fertiliser, that's why I went for root tabs

It may be that you have enough of all the nutrients from the root tabs, other than iron (assuming your problem is iron), until you have some plant available iron you can't tell what else (if anything) might be deficient.

In <"Liebig's barrel">, your short plank would be iron (Fe), and it would be over-flowing right at the bottom of the barrel.

So what's recommended as a complete fertiliser?

The <"linked TNC one"> would be fine, and they are a forum sponsor.

Because your problems affect the new leaves of your plants, it is a non-mobile element, so you won't get immediate greening after you've added the limiting nutrient, this will only occur when the plant grows new leaves.

cheers Darrel

 

[Bacom]

Hi all, It may be that you have enough of all the nutrients from the root tabs, other than iron (assuming your problem is iron), until you have some plant available iron you can't tell what else (if anything) might be deficient.

In <"Liebig's barrel">, your short plank would be iron (Fe), and it would be over-flowing right at the bottom of the barrel.

The <"linked TNC one"> would be fine, and they are a forum sponsor.

Because your problems affect the new leaves of your plants, it is a non-mobile element, so you won't get immediate greening after you've added the limiting nutrient, this will only occur when the plant grows new leaves.

cheers Darrel

Alright cheers, considering just adding a complete substrate instead, but how long do they last? Also is it okay to take the plants completely out of the tank to trim


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[Bacom]

Hi all, It may be that you have enough of all the nutrients from the root tabs, other than iron (assuming your problem is iron), until you have some plant available iron you can't tell what else (if anything) might be deficient.

In <"Liebig's barrel">, your short plank would be iron (Fe), and it would be over-flowing right at the bottom of the barrel.

The <"linked TNC one"> would be fine, and they are a forum sponsor.

Because your problems affect the new leaves of your plants, it is a non-mobile element, so you won't get immediate greening after you've added the limiting nutrient, this will only occur when the plant grows new leaves.

cheers Darrel

By the way the tabs I use are tnc plugs which contain iron but maybe not enough?


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[Silviu Man]

If you take out the plants, this means alredy a reset of the tank. Is this what you want? If yes then go ahead; else you may try to add an universal soil over that you have now. You may add Tropica Aqvarium Soil that is neutral one, 3-4 cm in the front and 8-9 cm in the back (after you wash it very well). Then after (or before) you can trim the plants (all external and/or affected leaves, leaving at least 2-3 healthy leaves to support the roots). Then after, again, as I said before, wait and see.

 

[Bacom]

If you take out the plants, this means alredy a reset of the tank. Is this what you want? If yes then go ahead; else you may try to add an universal soil over that you have now. You may add Tropica Aqvarium Soil that is neutral one, 3-4 cm in the front and 8-9 cm in the back (after you wash it very well). Then after (or before) you can trim the plants (all external and/or affected leaves, leaving at least 2-3 healthy leaves to support the roots). Then after, again, as I said before, wait and see.

I decided to take them out and removed some dead leaves and roots and replanted, now time will tel how they do, also added more root tabs


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[dw1305]

Hi all,

By the way the tabs I use are tnc plugs which contain iron but maybe not enough?

It would depend upon the form the iron is in, it has to be plant available, I think the chelator used in the TNC root tabs is FeEDTA, which is fine below pH7, but less effective above neutral pH. When the iron forms oxides, hydroxides, phosphate compounds etc., under alkaline conditions, it is unavailable to the plant.

The total reservoir of iron in soils and water is huge, but the vast majority of it is in insoluble form.

Looking at the photo, it looks like the new leaves are small and pale, and that is very suggestive of iron deficiency, particularly when coupled with hard water.



cheers Darrel

 

[Bacom]

Hi all,It would depend upon the form the iron is in, it has to be plant available, I think the chelator used in the TNC root tabs is FeEDTA, which is fine below pH7, but less effective above neutral pH. When the iron forms oxides, hydroxides, phosphate compounds etc., under alkaline conditions, it is unavailable to the plant.

The total reservoir of iron in soils and water is huge, but the vast majority of it is in insoluble form.

Looking at the photo, it looks like the new leaves are small and pale, and that is very suggestive of iron deficiency, particularly when coupled with hard water.



cheers Darrel

Ok taking that into account would the tnc liquid be the same with the iron?


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[dw1305]

Hi all,
I think the <"TNC iron"> uses Fe DTPA as its iron source, and this is suitable for hard water.

cheers Darrel

 

[Bacom]

Ok thanks, quick question, are you meant to vacuum a planted tank? There's quite a lot of debris on the sand just didn't want to affect the plants


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[Silviu Man]

If you ask me, having in mind the actual situation, I would change everything : getting out the pants, the substrate, cleaning the tank, adding an universal substrate (2-3 mm diameter and at least 3-4 cm thick in the front and 7-8 cm in the background), cleaning the plant and replanting the tank. You will never be able to clean properly the plants under water; this way you may also change the position of the plants according with the light, exposure, ...

 

[Bacom]

If you ask me, having in mind the actual situation, I would change everything : getting out the pants, the substrate, cleaning the tank, adding an universal substrate (2-3 mm diameter and at least 3-4 cm thick in the front and 7-8 cm in the background), cleaning the plant and replanting the tank. You will never be able to clean properly the plants under water; this way you may also change the position of the plants according with the light, exposure, ...

I was thinking of breaking down the tank at some point to add a plant substrate and paint the back...I've attached a pic of a different sword which is showing darker green new leaves, also I took them all out yesterday and cleaned algae off the leaves and bought some amano shrimp today to help tackle some algae. I'm going to wait and see how the plants do for a couple of weeks before changing everything.


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[Silviu Man]

Looks resonable. My remark was in the context of what you have mentioned :
"There's quite a lot of debris on the sand just didn't want to affect the plants".

 

[Bacom]

Looks resonable. My remark was in the context of what you have mentioned :
"There's quite a lot of debris on the sand just didn't want to affect the plants".

Yes but mainly the problem is I have a bristlenose that's a poop machine, not
much I can do about that besides using a gravel vac


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[Silviu Man]

I have same problem with my 20 litters nano where I have a black Dennerle substrate. When I clean it, I use a simple plastic hose for water change. When I change the water, I cover the end of the hose with a finger, on the OUT side, and simple moove the IN side over the debris. When the debris is rising from the substrate, slowly release the water flow and suck the debris out. Then after I move to next area. Of course, I do not agitate too much the substrate, just enough for debris to rise over the substrate. Try this, maybe it will work for you too. For me is the only way to avoid sucking the shrimps!

 

[Bacom]

I have same problem with my 20 litters nano where I have a black Dennerle substrate. When I clean it, I use a simple plastic hose for water change. When I change the water, I cover the end of the hose with a finger, on the OUT side, and simple moove the IN side over the debris. When the debris is rising from the substrate, slowly release the water flow and suck the debris out. Then after I move to next area. Of course, I do not agitate too much the substrate, just enough for debris to rise over the substrate. Try this, maybe it will work for you too. For me is the only way to avoid sucking the shrimps!

Yeah I didn't think of the shrimp, although I only have a couple at the moment


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[Bacom]

Does anyone know how to calculate how much substrate I'd need? I currently have 25kg of sand so want to put a plant substrate down then cap with the sand


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