Fert advice

[AquariusPeter]

Hi guys,

I bought fluval roma 125l with aquasky led light in set.

I attached some photos of my tank.

I would like to ask you guys for your advice about fertilisation of this tank.

But before this I maybe describe my tank:

Tank: 125l fluval roma

Base: fluval stratum, and gravel coarse sand on top

Filtration: jbl 902

Light: fluval aquasky(in set with roma125)
Fluval plant 3.0 both set on 30% with reduced blue light to 15%

Mixed plants

2 weeks was with filtration without fishes.
3 days ago I decided add 5 platies to start cycling as I was reading a lot about fishless cycling on fish food and I found out mixed opinion about it.

And this time I will use only tap water which is hard ~12°dGH

I have some ferts from my previous tank, as i put some post about my cloud/hazy water in water chemistry few months ago.

I ordered 2 days ago TNC dtpa Fe and I have at home, JBL FERROPOL, and JBL POTASSIUM.

Form label I know that JBL FERROPOL has EDTA chelators, so that is why I bought additionally TNC dtpa Fe from amazon.

So the other trace elements from JBL FERROPOL will be soluble in my hard water? Should I maybe look for other trace elements with chelators like DTPA? How it works ?


Can i use those solufeed trace elemnts and macro as well if have my tap water in the tank?

Tank will be having soon 3 weeks this Friday as it everything working there.

I don't want inject CO2 for now, as I want to proper start fertilise my plants...

When I could start fertilise them ?

is it better wait until tank will be fully cycled?

Could I use all in one ferts like NPK? Or better dosing separately?

I see some of the plants started melting leaves but I am not sure if this is because they transforming from emersed to submersed form? Or because lack of nutrients?

Kind Regards

Thank you

Peter

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

2 weeks was with filtration without fishes.
3 days ago I decided add 5 platies to start cycling as I was reading a lot about fishless cycling on fish food and I found out mixed opinion about it.

You don't actually need an ammonia (NH3) source to <"cycle"> your tank, you can just <"plant and wait">. Have a look at <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee"> & <"Using stem plants as a filtering aid at Start Up!">.

Can i use those solufeed trace elemnts and macro as well if have my tap water in the tank?

You can. What does the report from (<"Severn-Trent">?) say about your water?

So the other trace elements from JBL FERROPOL will be soluble in my hard water? Should I maybe look for other trace elements with chelators like DTPA? How it works ?

<"FeEDDHA definitely works"> as a chelator for iron (Fe) in harder water.

I have some ferts from my previous tank, as i put some post about my cloud/hazy water in water chemistry few months ago.

This thread: <"Cloudy Water Hazy Water and Algae!">?. I'd use the Solufeed fertilisers you have, the aquarium ones aren't any "better", just a lot more expensive.

cheers Darrel

 

[AquariusPeter]

Hi,

You don't actually need an ammonia (NH3) source to <"cycle"> your tank, you can just <"plant and wait">. Have a look at <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee"> & <"Using stem plants as a filtering aid at Start Up!">.

I will definitely read it on my days off.

You can. What does the report from (<"Severn-Trent">?) say about your water?

I will copy report about my tap water(anglianwater) below:

Total hardness as Calcium (mg/l)	Total hardness as Calcium carbonate (mg/l)	Total hardness as Degrees Clark (°Clark or °e)	Total hardness as Degrees French (°f)	Total hardness as Degrees German (°dH)	Total hardness as millimoles (mmol/l of Ca)
84.128	210.32	14.638	21.032	11.946	2.103

Calcium

No legal Limit

mg/l

3

45.014

46.484

47.632

Magnesium

No legal Limit

mg/l

3

22.506

22.887

23.298

Nitrate

50

mg/l

8

26.203

33.055

37.851

Phosphorus

No legal Limit

mg/l

48

0.426

0.55

1.368

Iron

200

µg/l

8

<21

<21

<21

Potassium

No legal Limit

mg/l

2

2.742

2.758

2.773

pH (Hydrogen ion)

6.5 - 9.5

pH value

36

7.55

7.67

7.86

This thread: <"Cloudy Water Hazy Water and Algae!">?

Yes in this thread. But them I was using RO water with minerals. Now I will be using just tap water.

<"FeEDDHA"> definitely works as a chelator for iron (Fe) in harder water.

I wish to really have it, buy it, but I can't get it anywhere. Bioly.co.uk longer time when I am checking has out of stock... on ebay looking for is hard to get...
So that is why I decided to buy from amazon TNC iron AT DTPA. . . As on this thread :

This thread: <"Cloudy Water Hazy Water and Algae!">?

You provided me that table about solubility in pH range.

About Solufeed High K, can I dose dry? Or do I have to make with water?

The problem is I don't have RO water to make the solution of it.

Or could you use my tap water?

Below I provide some photos, about what is happening to my plants, and on the front inside glass, I think there are some signs of Diatoms?

Thank you for your expertise.

Kind regards,

Peter

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

About Solufeed High K, can I dose dry?

You can. Hydroponic fertilisers are comprised of soluble salts, and this also means that they will dissolve really quickly in the aquarium.

I will copy report about my tap water(anglianwater) below:

OK, as you say 12 dGH (and probably ~12 dKH) and a reasonable amount of nitrate (NO3-).

The problem is I don't have RO water to make the solution of it.

You can buy it <"really cheaply"> at Sainsbury's (or Halfords etc.), for use in steam irons and car batteries etc.

Or could you use my tap water?

Not really, because of the <"calcium (Ca) and carbonate (HCO3-) content">. Rainwater would do at a pinch.

I wish to really have it, buy it, but I can't get it anywhere. Bioly.co.uk since longer time when I am checking has out of stock... on ebay looking for is hard to get...
So that is why I decided to buy from amazon TNC iron AT DTPA. . .

Yes, FeDTPA should do. That is a shame, because I actually like the red tint from FeEDDHA, it just gives an <"easy visible estimation"> of plant available iron (Fe). Because I use rain water in the tanks, FeEDTA works for me.

Below I provide some photos, about what is happening to my plants,

I'd definitely try feeding them and see what happens. Your Platies look fine, just keep an eye out for the gills <"looking red"> through the gill cover if they become less active.

cheers Darrel

 

[AquariusPeter]

You can. Hydroponic fertilisers are comprised of soluble salts, and this also means that they will dissolve really quickly in the aquarium

Then I will have to use that IFC calculator to see how many grams to add it on my tank.

OK, as you say 12 dGH (and probably ~12 dKH) and a reasonable amount of nitrate (NO3-).

Yes that is why on my previous tank was trying yo use RO with minerals. But in that kind of situation, I had problem with the cycle I think.

You can buy it <"really cheaply"> at Sainsbury's (or Halfords etc.), for use in steam irons and car batteries etc

I can still buy RO in my aquatic shopin Bawtry, but just for the moment I don't have it at home. So I will try to dose solufeed high K in dry method. First I need to check with IFC calculator.

Yes, FeDTPA should do. That is a shame, because I actually like the red tint from FeEDDHA, it just gives an <"easy visible estimation"> of plant available iron (Fe). Because I use rain water in the tanks, FeEDTA works for me.

Yes that is why I bought FeDTPA from TNC.
It says 1ml/10litres will add - 1.0Fe(ppm).
I decided to add 1ml on my 125litres tank, today in the morning after nightshift.
As I still having my jbl test for iron, I decided to do some water test for iron. But I think I just dosed too less to be discoverable on test.

So then how is about the other trace elements? Like Mn, B, Mo, Cu, Mn, Zn,Cu...?

Do they have to be as well with DTPA chelators? Or just they will be enought like for example from JBL FERROPOL or Floragrow colombo or Solufeed TEC?

Your Platies look fine, just keep an eye out for the gills <"looking red"> through the gill cover if they become less active

Yep, as soon as my Ammonia tests will show me that is too much, then I will do water change . And of course I will be observing them.


Thank you

Kind Regards,

Peter

 

[AquariusPeter]

Hi all,

Does anyone ever tried to order FeEDDHA from Aliexpress? I can see there is the only source of FeEDDHA.

Thanks,

Kind Regards

Peter

 

[John q]

I can see there is the only source of FeEDDHA.

Not a supplier I've used but available in UK.

MATERIALS: 100% Microgranular Format, Dark Red Color, Stability pH Range of the Chelated Fraction 4-11, Chelated with EDDHA.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/R-SHOP-FC-Ferro-chelato/dp/B0BLDYD8WS/ref=asc_df_B0BLDYD8WS/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697175004957&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6913966842631327709&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006585&hvtargid=pla-2188584119005&psc=1&mcid=9528cad02c9e3f6d9aad92a4c020241c&gad_source=1

Or bulk buy.

Fe 6 EDDHA (2 o-o)

Economy Fe EDDHA iron fertilizer containing 6% water soluble iron for preventing and correcting iron deficiency in most plants especially calcifuge

solufeedshop.com

 

[AquariusPeter]

Hi,

Not a supplier I've used but available in UK.

MATERIALS: 100% Microgranular Format, Dark Red Color, Stability pH Range of the Chelated Fraction 4-11, Chelated with EDDHA.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/R-SHOP-FC-Ferro-chelato/dp/B0BLDYD8WS/ref=asc_df_B0BLDYD8WS/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697175004957&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6913966842631327709&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006585&hvtargid=pla-2188584119005&psc=1&mcid=9528cad02c9e3f6d9aad92a4c020241c&gad_source=1

Or bulk buy.

Fe 6 EDDHA (2 o-o)

Economy Fe EDDHA iron fertilizer containing 6% water soluble iron for preventing and correcting iron deficiency in most plants especially calcifuge

solufeedshop.com

Thank you for your help

I will go for now from amazon to see how it goes.

Kind Regards,

Pete

 

[AquariusPeter]

Hi all,

I'd definitely try feeding them and see what happens. Your Platies look fine, just keep an eye out for the gills <"looking red"> through the gill cover if they become less active.

Yes Platies get little red gills but i have done 40% WC as I believe because ammonia level was on constant for a few days - 0.5mg/l. But they didin't become less active. Also I am trying feed my plants. I have TNC Complete, TNC DTPA AT Iron, and Finally FeEDDHA thanks to help John q:

MATERIALS: 100% Microgranular Format, Dark Red Color, Stability pH Range of the Chelated Fraction 4-11, Chelated with EDDHA.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/R-SHOP-FC-...9528cad02c9e3f6d9aad92a4c020241c&gad_source=1

I don't want to start a new thread so I will try continue here with my questions about advices.

There are some photos I attached right now.

I am adding TNC Complete, with TNC AT IRON DTPA. But i don't really know what amounts should i on beginning dose ?

As you can see on the photos my alternanthera is not really in a good condition. It is melting, as i mentioned i sucked quite a lot of dead leaves of Alternanthera, Bacopa, and some other plants. Alternanthera's stems are yellow and i don't know, should i wait until it gives new shots ? or just removing them ? or cutting them low level?

I cleaned glass from Diatoms( I believe brown algae) some of them covering gravel so I left them cuz I didn't want release more ammonia.

Sorry guys for banal questions, but I am still learning. And I don't really know how to start to find this balance.

I have also seachem stability. But I haven't added yet at all? I am not sure If should dose it a bit at this stage. I have it just in case.

Yes, FeDTPA should do. That is a shame, because I actually like the red tint from FeEDDHA, it just gives an <"easy visible estimation"> of plant available iron (Fe). Because I use rain water in the tanks, FeEDTA works for me.

I also added TNC AT IRON DTPA only 0.5ml. But I don't know how much should I really dosing.

Should I add FeEDDHA as well? A pinch? Or do I have to make solution?

In general i don't know if my dosages are not to small ?

TNC Complete says - 1ml/ 10ltrs
TNC DTPA AT Iron - 1ml/10ltrs
FeEDDHA - I am thinking to start dosing like dry dose in a pinch ?

Thank you,

Kind Regards,

Peter

 

[John q]

Should I add FeEDDHA as well? A pinch? Or do I have to make solution?

You could but would only need 200mg to achieve 0.1 Fe in your 125ltr tank.
Alternatively you can add 2 grams into 100ml of water and dose 10mls of that, each 10ml would also add 0.1 ppm Fe.

 

[John q]

TNC DTPA AT Iron - 1ml/10ltrs

At this dose 12.5mls in a 125L tank will raise the Fe by 1ppm, so a fairly large dose.

 

[AquariusPeter]

You could but would only need 200mg to achieve 0.1 Fe in your 125ltr tank.
Alternatively you can add 2 grams into 100ml of water and dose 10mls of that, each 10ml would also add 0.1 ppm Fe.

That small pack has 45grams of FeEDDHA.

I will get some RO water and I will make solution.

At this dose 12.5mls in a 125L tank will raise the Fe by 1ppm, so a fairly large dose.

Yes, but I added only 0.5ml, together with 2ml TNC Complete.

Actually I don't understand why TNC Complete has Phosphates together with IRON? There is a lot of opinion that IRON shouldn't be dosed together with Phosphates?

With TNC DTPA AT IRON I just want to dose it in very carefully way. For the moment I added 0.5ml ... I know it might be to less, but I will try increase it. I also observing plants how they reacting. But the problem is I don't have too much experience with this.

Thank you

Kind Regards,

Peter

 

[John q]

Yes, but I added only 0.5ml, together with 2ml TNC Complete.

If that's the sum total of what you added to the tank then you've added 0.04pmm Dtpa Fe and 0.012 Edta Fe (this bits from the tnc complete)

Total breakdown of TNC complete:

 

[AquariusPeter]

Yes that is true i have checked it as well.

Shall I add more?

I have been looking now on my tank, and I don't know why my water is getting again hazy.... 😵‍💫🫣

I am really worried about it now...

I will do some photos after photoperiod will start after 2pm.

Thank you,

Kind Regards,

Peter,

 

[AquariusPeter]

HI all,

If that's the sum total of what you added to the tank then you've added 0.04pmm Dtpa Fe and 0.012 Edta Fe (this bits from the tnc complete)

Total breakdown of TNC complete:
View attachment 220303

In attached photo, this is my really small experimental vase like maybe a bit more than 2ltrs volume with mini air pump, with nano filter.

Here is only gravel without any aquasoils.
I bought limnobium levigatum, with Ludwigia, but I don't remember well the full name.

I did this tank 2 days ago. And yesterday I dose 10 drops of TNC Complete. I added according to calculator to set Fe 0.2ppm. I set calculator on estimative Index.

Then I just check on the internet how many drops has 1ml around~20drops.

Everything is for experiment on plants, just to see how they react on some of my ferts i have at home, and tap water only.

There is mini LED light on it about 5W so I think is more than enough.

I just want to try and learn to read plants.

Thank you,

Kind Regards,

Peter

 

[AquariusPeter]

Hi all,
Today after one week I have done WC 50% of my 125l Fluval Roma.
I was using during the week TNC complete, with TNC AT IRON.

I wiped brown dust from the inside glass. Easy to wipe.

Before my WC I went to test some water for Ph-6.8.

Plants on the right side where is outlet water from my jbl e902 looks like they are in better condition.
Bacopa still growing but really really slowly...

Alternanthera, there are new shots but also growing slowly.

Rotala Wallichi is growing quite nice and fast but is green, and on the left side is getting yellow-ish.

Maybe on this is because on left side in my tank I have inlet pipe to the filter.

There is still brown dust on the gravel, but I don't really vacuum the gravel.

Fluval bio stratum looks like is impacting on Ph which is 6.8

My LED lights are still on 30% with blue light reduced to 15%. [Fluval aquasky, Fluval plant 3.0 (60cm version from an old tank)]

Limnobium looks growing nicely.

Now about the flow, I have reduced my flow rate on my jbl e902 to about 75%. Water surface is agitating. But in the left side where is inlet pipe leading wastes to the filter, the plants are in generally worse condition ? ? ?

Is this because flow rate is too big, or is this because there are on the way to inlet pipe to much wastes?

I bought also TNC Lite. Today after WC I applied TNC Lite around 12ml.

I was doing some tests on the week on NO3 and it looks like it was around 100... I know it might be because propably Fluval Biostratum gives it away to the water column. .

That is why I have done WC 50% today. And decided to buy TNC lite and apply to see what will happen during next week.

Micranthemum Monte carlo looks like is in vegetative state but it might because lack of CO2.

I got 5 Platies Mickey Mouse, today I decided to add 5 red cherry shrimps. 🍒

I am still thinking what is causing worse condition on my left side of the tank and I am still thinking about my flow rate if it is not to strong?

How do you think guys?

Thank you for any advices

Kind Regards,

Pete

 

[ceg4048]

I see some of the plants started melting leaves but I am not sure if this is because they transforming from emersed to submersed form? Or because lack of nutrients?

Hello,
Nothing to do with nutrients and everything to do with the inability of the old leaves to source CO2 from the water column. Keeping the light intensity low during this transition will reduce the demand for CO2.

Now about the flow, I have reduced my flow rate on my jbl e902 to about 75%. Water surface is agitating. But in the left side where is inlet pipe leading wastes to the filter, the plants are in generally worse condition ? ? ?

Flow is not really an issue in a non-CO2 injected tank. Look towards reducing the light intensity.

All of these ailments are due to folks slamming photon torpedos at the plants before they have had the chance to grow leaves that are capable breathing underwater.

When I could start fertilise them ?

is it better wait until tank will be fully cycled?

Could I use all in one ferts like NPK? Or better dosing separately?

As mentioned by Darrell, a low tech tank is much less reliant on manic dosing programs. You just need a pinch of this and that once a week or so, however, if you mix low tech water with high tech lighting then this normally leads to problems.
CO2 causes the plants to demand much more nutrients. High lighting also causes the plants to demand more nutrients and more CO2.
In nature plants do not get dumped under water as we do in our tanks. The rainy season starts and this triggers the plants to begin the transformation while some leaves are still above water using atmospheric CO2. As the flood level rises the new submersed leaves form at a rate that eases the pressure to develop new water friendly leaves AND new water friendly roots. The water is also typically turbid and there is a leaf canopy blocking a lot of the sunlight. We do exactly the opposite and that is why there are problems.

Cheers,

 

[AquariusPeter]

Hi all,

Hello,
Nothing to do with nutrients and everything to do with the inability of the old leaves to source CO2 from the water column. Keeping the light intensity low during this transition will reduce the demand for CO2.

Flow is not really an issue in a non-CO2 injected tank. Look towards reducing the light intensity.

All of these ailments are due to folks slamming photon torpedos at the plants before they have had the chance to grow leaves that are capable breathing underwater.


As mentioned by Darrell, a low tech tank is much less reliant on manic dosing programs. You just need a pinch of this and that once a week or so, however, if you mix low tech water with high tech lighting then this normally leads to problems.
CO2 causes the plants to demand much more nutrients. High lighting also causes the plants to demand more nutrients and more CO2.
In nature plants do not get dumped under water as we do in our tanks. The rainy season starts and this triggers the plants to begin the transformation while some leaves are still above water using atmospheric CO2. As the flood level rises the new submersed leaves form at a rate that eases the pressure to develop new water friendly leaves AND new water friendly roots. The water is also typically turbid and there is a leaf canopy blocking a lot of the sunlight. We do exactly the opposite and that is why there are problems.

Cheers,

So should I then reduce my lights still more down? As they both set only for 30% intense.

Both aquasky 2.0 and fluval plant 3.0 are set on 30% with blue light reduced to 15%.

After my last water change I dosed TNC lite. But Bacopa and Altrrnanthera stand still in one place. (None grow). Ther rest of plants are growing but very very slowly.

Last time when I dosed TNC complete I think I dosed a bit too much as I had dust on glasses. Buy new shots were appering, like on Bacopa on photos. After last WC I wiped it, and dosed only TNC Lite. Water is crystal(for the moment) . But then Bacopa after new small shots looks like not growing, looks like is in vegetative state. I just attached photos.

Thank you for your help

Kind Regards,

Pete

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

After my last water change I dosed TNC lite. But Bacopa and Altrrnanthera stand still in one place. (None grow). The rest of plants are growing but very very slowly ......... After last WC I wiped it, and dosed only TNC Lite. Water is crystal(for the moment) . But then Bacopa after new small shots looks like not growing, looks like is in vegetative state. I just attached photos.

......... Last time when I dosed TNC complete I think I dosed a bit too much as I had dust on glasses. Buy new shots were appering, like on Bacopa on photos.

I think you've <"answered your own question">. Don't lower light intensity at the moment, just use the "TNC Complete".

cheers Darrel

 

[AquariusPeter]

Hi all,

Hi all,


I think you've <"answered your own question">. Don't lower light intensity at the moment, just use the "TNC Complete".

cheers Darrel

Thank you for your help and responds.

Well I prefer always ask or look for an advice just to make sure if my way of thinking is correct.

I will try to adjust TNC Complete in 3x or 4x dosing a week. I will maybe start 4x 3mls. . . So in total would then 12ml a week. Though calculator says to make 0.1mg/l of Fe I suppose add 15.8ml weekly.

So I will try slowly, step by step. I will look on how thing will go.

Thank you 😊 🙏

Kind Regards

Peter