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EI DOSING USING DRY SALTS
- Thread starter ceg4048
- Start date
Oldguy
Member
No, not really. You would be about right for potassium [K], but the plants would have no nitrates [NO3] which they need to grow. The beauty of KNO3 is you have two key ingredients in one chemical compound.
Try an internet search. You may find that KNO3 and other nitrates have become 'regulated substances'. They can still be purchased but the seller has to keep records of the purchaser. Internet sales will yield your name and address and a statement about age (over 18yrs usually works) and why you want the chemical - as a plant fertilize will provide the vendor with these details. All legitimate. Garden Centers take the easy way out and tend not to stock it. They try and sell a blended fertilizer for terrestrial plants which might contain ammonium salts or urea. Hope this is of help.
Hi
I have found the article on dry salts very interesting if some what technical.
I am just starting out with this hobby and will be buying my first plants soon.
The tank is a 240L with a soil substrate.
I have found where I can purchase KN03 locally.
I cannot work out what else is needed to add to the KN03.
On page 1 there shows about 7 different pots of powders!
Also a clear measurement of how much to mix the powders would be great.
Apologies if this has been mentioned in earlier posts.
I have found the article on dry salts very interesting if some what technical.
I am just starting out with this hobby and will be buying my first plants soon.
The tank is a 240L with a soil substrate.
I have found where I can purchase KN03 locally.
I cannot work out what else is needed to add to the KN03.
On page 1 there shows about 7 different pots of powders!
Also a clear measurement of how much to mix the powders would be great.
Apologies if this has been mentioned in earlier posts.
Here is a good start for the salts and amounts needed.
Ei Starter 1 Kit with Bottles - Starter Kits - Dry Chemicals - Fertilisers
Ei Starter 1 Kit with Bottles - Starter Kits - Dry Chemicals - Fertilisers
The APFUK starter kit is a great place to start IMO even if you just buy the salts they advise locally, We do have a new fert calculator which is a bit technical for newcomers to fert dosing, but if you was after dosing at different levels for your tank than the APFUK instruction advise just do a post and I will post the amounts of salts to add to match the fert regime you wish to follow 😉
Hi
Plantex CSM+B is a Micro/Trace element fertiliser mix!
So best kept separate in its own bottle.....unless you are making an All in One fertilizer solution.
James' Planted Tank - Estimative Index Explained (theplantedtank.co.uk)
hoggie
Plantex CSM+B is a Micro/Trace element fertiliser mix!
So best kept separate in its own bottle.....unless you are making an All in One fertilizer solution.
James' Planted Tank - Estimative Index Explained (theplantedtank.co.uk)
hoggie
Hi all,
The main one that has some additional issues is iron (Fe), where it needs to be <"chelated in harder water">, with differing chelators being better at higher pH values.
cheers Darrel
It is a <"trace element mix">, a mix of the elements plants only need in <"very small amounts">. Most people will use a very small amount of a molybdenum (Mo) or boron (B) containing compound and it just isn't worth buying even the smallest container of boric acid (H3BO3) etc., it would last them for all of eternity. I think <"CSM+B was just a commercial trace mix"> that was available at the time, any out of <"Yara Vita, Rexolin APN"> etc would do.
You need all fourteen of the essential elements for plant growth.
The main one that has some additional issues is iron (Fe), where it needs to be <"chelated in harder water">, with differing chelators being better at higher pH values.
cheers Darrel
Last edited:
Mr.Shenanagins
Member
Plantex is a mixture of micronutrients, and is mostly composed of Iron.
The salts below are all purchased individually-
KNO3: Nitrogen
KH2PO4: Phosphate
K2SO4: Potassium
Hi there!
@ceg4048 Great article, really enjoyed lecture and pictures!!!
I have a question. See this sample above. Is it me, or something is missing here? I think you'll struggling to get 30ppm (weekly) potassium with these rates.
I know there is potassium in KNO3 and KH2PO4 but I think you'll get "only" about 15ppm/week, if you don't add some KSO4.
Looking forward to hear from you, great job, once again!
Hi,
EI is associated with CO2 injected tanks and it is the CO2 that is responsible for the accelerated growth rate. Plants are constructed primarily of carbon and they use the nutrients we dose to ensure healthy cells during that growth.
It is more accurate to say, therefore, that injecting CO2, depending on the amount added, increases the metabolism of plants by as much as 10X compared to non-added CO2 tanks. That will not necessarily increase the growth rate tenfold, as there are other factors involved, such as lighting and so forth.
The role of nutrients is NOT therefore, to increase growth rate, but to ensure that the plants are healthy and that they do not suffer malnutrition during the time they are assimilating the increased carbon. Nutrients and CO2 act in concert to foster rapid and healthy growth.
Malnutrition in plants, due to lack of nutrients, is characterized by cell death in important areas of plant metabolism, which weakens the plant, which damages their defense mechanisms and which then allows algal cells to attack. This is what we observe as algal blooms. Algal spores are always on the offensive but healthy growing plants are able to resist these attacks using various mechanisms. These mechanisms are constructed of proteins and other compounds that are themselves constructed of the raw materials found in the dosing powders. These include the macronutrients Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Potassium and the micronutrients, which are chelated metals, such as Iron, Magnesium and so on.
Another example of the use of these elements is in the construction of Chlorophyll and other light gathering proteins.
EI ensures unlimited availability of these basic materials that plants use to construct the compounds that keep them healthy.
To be clear, other dosing programs, or other dosing products have exactly the same compounds that we use, but they often contain much less, AND they are MUCH more expensive. One of the founding principles of EI is that the raw materials used here are dirt cheap, primarily because they are found...in dirt, which is where plants are usually found.
Hope this clarifies.
Cheers,
EI is associated with CO2 injected tanks and it is the CO2 that is responsible for the accelerated growth rate. Plants are constructed primarily of carbon and they use the nutrients we dose to ensure healthy cells during that growth.
It is more accurate to say, therefore, that injecting CO2, depending on the amount added, increases the metabolism of plants by as much as 10X compared to non-added CO2 tanks. That will not necessarily increase the growth rate tenfold, as there are other factors involved, such as lighting and so forth.
The role of nutrients is NOT therefore, to increase growth rate, but to ensure that the plants are healthy and that they do not suffer malnutrition during the time they are assimilating the increased carbon. Nutrients and CO2 act in concert to foster rapid and healthy growth.
Malnutrition in plants, due to lack of nutrients, is characterized by cell death in important areas of plant metabolism, which weakens the plant, which damages their defense mechanisms and which then allows algal cells to attack. This is what we observe as algal blooms. Algal spores are always on the offensive but healthy growing plants are able to resist these attacks using various mechanisms. These mechanisms are constructed of proteins and other compounds that are themselves constructed of the raw materials found in the dosing powders. These include the macronutrients Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Potassium and the micronutrients, which are chelated metals, such as Iron, Magnesium and so on.
Another example of the use of these elements is in the construction of Chlorophyll and other light gathering proteins.
EI ensures unlimited availability of these basic materials that plants use to construct the compounds that keep them healthy.
To be clear, other dosing programs, or other dosing products have exactly the same compounds that we use, but they often contain much less, AND they are MUCH more expensive. One of the founding principles of EI is that the raw materials used here are dirt cheap, primarily because they are found...in dirt, which is where plants are usually found.
Hope this clarifies.
Cheers,
jaisol
Member
Is there a "general formulae" ?
I may have missed it in the 20 pages of this over a few years.
Each to their own, shrimp folk no copper, environment aquairia each have specific demands, each to their own.
Malnutrition in plants? I think what Ceg is saying is that each part or each ingredient helps the plant to develope rather like a jigsaw, you can build a picture with pieces missing, it works to a point, but is not a complete picture if bits are missing.
One needs to find the right dirt, hopefully it does not cost £6 a bag and you need a lot of bags. mmm, plant don't need 100% pure lab compounds LOL
Protiens allow plants, and idiots to function. Light activates and motivates, fertilisers make the building blocks available, CO2 makes available the building bricks.
CO2 - empty lego bricks flaoting around.
Fertilisers - strange lego bits that need empty bricks.
Light, - the cement and activator - it gets all these bits motivated.(energy)
Each one is limiting, light is the easiest to control, so flood nutients - strange blocks, Increase CO2 the building blocks, and increase light.. and wait.
Some protiens need light to work. Chlorophyll needs light to work and it has an on off level where increasing light by a small amout will result in a dramatically bigger grabbing of CO2 lego.
So after say 10 years is there a few definitive dry salt plans that work?
fer
I may have missed it in the 20 pages of this over a few years.
Each to their own, shrimp folk no copper, environment aquairia each have specific demands, each to their own.
Malnutrition in plants? I think what Ceg is saying is that each part or each ingredient helps the plant to develope rather like a jigsaw, you can build a picture with pieces missing, it works to a point, but is not a complete picture if bits are missing.
One needs to find the right dirt, hopefully it does not cost £6 a bag and you need a lot of bags. mmm, plant don't need 100% pure lab compounds LOL
Protiens allow plants, and idiots to function. Light activates and motivates, fertilisers make the building blocks available, CO2 makes available the building bricks.
CO2 - empty lego bricks flaoting around.
Fertilisers - strange lego bits that need empty bricks.
Light, - the cement and activator - it gets all these bits motivated.(energy)
Each one is limiting, light is the easiest to control, so flood nutients - strange blocks, Increase CO2 the building blocks, and increase light.. and wait.
Some protiens need light to work. Chlorophyll needs light to work and it has an on off level where increasing light by a small amout will result in a dramatically bigger grabbing of CO2 lego.
So after say 10 years is there a few definitive dry salt plans that work?
fer
There are various regimes which have worked for folk
Well that is very dependant on the water your using and the type of scape etc
But we do have the IFC calculator which has all the different regimes, you can input your water company's water report and it works out all the dry masses of each salts to add weekly based on tank size, regime and water your using. It even has a remineralising mode to make bespoke remineralisers - new remineralising sheet is due out soon
Cdytebg
New Member
Love the article however it seems like the hardest part is actually sourcing the powders at the minute. Quite a few links listed in this thread have closed down or no longer sell dry salts?
PARAGUAY
Member
Go to fertilizers threads l think it's the
one APFUK c losing down (without checking )some good links given. Think l used Aqua Plants Care for KNO3. Darrel and Zues recommend Solufeed for trace and of course any were like Home Bargains have Epsom Salts
one APFUK c losing down (without checking )some good links given. Think l used Aqua Plants Care for KNO3. Darrel and Zues recommend Solufeed for trace and of course any were like Home Bargains have Epsom Salts
Cdytebg
New Member
Perfect thank you
After reading the original post I am under the impression I am seriously underdosing my CO2 tank?
I am using Tropica Premium at 30ml per week and adding NO3 and PO4 separately. I started to get algae so cut back in nutrients but from what I read I should be increasing them?
Just looking at Seachem Nitrate beginner dose my 270 litre tank is being given 8ml per week, this is shown to raise nitrate by 1ppm but we are aiming for 20ppm on the EI dosing so is it right i need to be dosing 20x that!!?? 160ml per week?
After reading the original post I am under the impression I am seriously underdosing my CO2 tank?
I am using Tropica Premium at 30ml per week and adding NO3 and PO4 separately. I started to get algae so cut back in nutrients but from what I read I should be increasing them?
Just looking at Seachem Nitrate beginner dose my 270 litre tank is being given 8ml per week, this is shown to raise nitrate by 1ppm but we are aiming for 20ppm on the EI dosing so is it right i need to be dosing 20x that!!?? 160ml per week?
Attachments
This is the difference between EI and lean dosing. Tropica's standard recommendation would by most be defined as fairly lean, Seachem's Flourish borders into homeopathy.
If youre wanting to use the EI method then making your own fertilizer is the best for your wallet 😁 Otherwise you'd be going through a LOT of premade stuff
Cdytebg
New Member
Haha yes definetly. I have some powders which have arrived but it looks like I'm going to be getting onto them quicker than I first thought at that dosage!
I have had extremely slow growth and now algae even with my twinstar 1200c turned down to 50% for 6 hours so I can only now put it down to lack of nutrition as CO2 is set pretty high already
I have had extremely slow growth and now algae even with my twinstar 1200c turned down to 50% for 6 hours so I can only now put it down to lack of nutrition as CO2 is set pretty high already
