"Dutch something or the other" 120 Gal

[George Farmer]

Probably the best example of a high-energy planted aquarium system there is. It sure ticks lots of boxes.

Maybe it is the aquarist, not the method.

Totally.

 

[Ady34]

Probably the best example of a high-energy planted aquarium system there is. It sure ticks lots of boxes.

Maybe it is the aquarist, not the method.

Totally.

I think its the aquarists method. 🙂

 

[plantbrain]

This would suggest that folks might want to look at the other factor and master each method rather than suggesting one is superior. I use it like a farmer/researcher might us Hoagland's modified solution as a non limiting reference for fertilizers.

Then I can focus on light, CO2, current etc.............

It's one less thing than has dependency.

If folks claim/make the hypothesis that an excess of say K+ causes issues with species X, Y and Z, I can easily test that hypothesis quickly by adding a specific K+ concentration. you first need to have a suitable method and ability to control the OTHER variables before.......you can do the test, but many assume they can figure everything out without having such a control reference

Then they run around and seek other folks that will share their belief and say "me too!"
This is not how to approach things deductively, but man........is it a wildly popular thing on the web.

If you have nutrient dependency......then you have interactions with the fertilizer...........so sure, you will see effects when you raise ferts.......Liebig's law predicts this. So how can you test anything assuming this? You cannot test CO2 or light independently, and sure, some will have their tank work and do well in many cases........

That's more a function of them than the method itself however.

No matter what dosing routine folks have, if the light/CO2 is off, it does not matter and CO2 is the bugger. There are after all...........examples where we see algae in EVERY method of dosing is there not??? One dimensional micromanagement, not holistic approaches or isolating one thing at a time.

"All I know is that it works for me", but not knowing why, not being able to isolate anything or test any hypothesis: we learn VERY little and gain no information from this approach/attitude. It answers little.

 

[plantbrain]

Made a big mess today.



I moved the Ludwgia red to the rear, remove the R. macrandra completely and the Bacopa lanigera. They are weedy, no one seemed to by or keep them for a reasonable $ and they can be bought fairly cheap.


UG is extremely dense:






This is the stunted Rotala "sunset". The leaves are about 1/2 as long as what I had prior, they have reddened up a little since I got them Friday. If they revet back, then Antbug's issues is most likely CO2 and/or light. Since Aaron's tank has less light than mine, but both tanks produced larger/longer leaves, the light may not have a large influence, perhaps with color etc......but not with actually leaf size I would suggest/argue/think.

A few more tweaks on Antbugs tank, and I think he'll have a dandy tank though. $$$ does not come easily, so upgrades like an ATI light system is not something many walk out and buy tomorrow.

Good CO2 can be worked on now however.

I moved the L pilosa away from the L inclinata as they are similar in coloration.

It's not the best place for it, but it does high light a nice plant.
It's worth 15X as much as the L. "red" and is a nice slow grower.

I might remove the L perunesis/granulosus and sell that and move the Red ludwigia over to that spot. I might change the L pilosa again, not sure, we will see.

Downoi has really bounced back from the dinky stump leftovers. I'll allow that to expand and come down in front where the E hydropiper is now on the left smaller side, sell that bit of E hydropiper.......then have extra grow out space for the downoi and the E Hydropiper as well.

I have some different wood pieces I'll attach the mini pellia to on the far Right. I removed the Starougyne purple, sig other said it did not look good. She was right.

I explored using the L pantanal and Red Macrandra in the spot where the L pilosa is now. Did not look good and the growth pattern would not look right/trimming etc, over time.

Rotala "sunset" today, let's see it in 2-3 weeks.

 

[Westyggx]

That UG growth is crazy man!

 

[foxfish]

Tom, do you think that your sump & filter allow more C02 to be added without affecting your fish & shrimps because of the high gas exchange & added oxygen?

 

[Guest]

"All I know is that it works for me", but not knowing why, not being able to isolate anything or test any hypothesis: we learn VERY little and gain no information from this approach/attitude. It answers little.

Modern scientific reductionist methodology is all well and good, but lets face it some people just seem to have green fingers?...or if this tank is anything to go by multicolored fingers!

 

[plantbrain]

"All I know is that it works for me", but not knowing why, not being able to isolate anything or test any hypothesis: we learn VERY little and gain no information from this approach/attitude. It answers little.

Modern scientific reductionist methodology is all well and good, but lets face it some people just seem to have green fingers?...or if this tank is anything to go by multicolored fingers!

Well concepts and reduction of myths on how to go about it.........have a lot to do with much of what I say.

Pruning and how to trim stuff, ADA has a ton of examples and how to trim etc........but very little about Why, How to actually grow generally, what ranges can be done, what light, cO2/or non CO2 methods work. They only sell you ADA, not general concepts.

 

[plantbrain]

Tom, do you think that your sump & filter allow more C02 to be added without affecting your fish & shrimps because of the high gas exchange & added oxygen?

Yes, but the gas exchange is selective, O2 and CO2 are independent.

I am trying to save CO2 as it enters the Filter............I am trying to add/exchange low O2 water with high O2 from the air. There is some overlap, but overall, I get 1-2 ppm more O2 using this filter than the canister filters usign the same total flow rate and with the same surface movement.

I think the skimmer prefilter plays the largest role though.

One thing to consider is when the water is sucked down from the overflow, air and CO2/O2 are all pulled in.
Once inside the dry part of the chamber.............the gases degas and equilibrate. Low O2 water is enriched while high CO2 water is re enriched after it degasses and having no where to go, goes back into solution and under the plate to the return pump. Since air has more O2 than the water, the O2 goes in, and no O2 is degassed out.

Thus the filter is selective..........it keeps the extra CO2, but adds more O2 back.

It's a thought experiment, but if you think about it, it might sink in.

 

[plantbrain]

I hacked a sod out of the UG, left it and simply tucked the edge of the rug back under. I'll remove the rest of the rug and then replant plugs well packed into the area later. Did not feel like it yesterday so I left it.

I re roped the Fissidens and then finally got around to adding the Mini pellia to the wood on the Right side. That was a PITA. The stuff crumbles, makes tying Fissidens in lots of tiny clumps look easy.

Looks nice though. I think I'll cut the shape in Stain steel mesh I want for that area and then use a hair net. Either that or some Green fingers following the flow of the other branches.

The other side with the Fissidens will have another green finger coming out of the middle, I just started a piece of wood that will be used for that. The Downoi has recovered and grown into large nice sized plants pretty fast. The L inclinata grows at a break neck pace. Trimming is aggressive.

I will likely sell the L penuinesis and then move the Ludwigia red to that position. The Rotala Sunset will end up in the Rear I suspect where the R macrandra was. This opens up one space for something new to toy around with in the background area.

The Ludwgia pilosa is coming along nicely and has reddened up more than I thought it would. I'm not sure this is the best scape layout, color scheme to highlight the plant, but.........oh well for now. If I get rid of the L inclinata, it'll be moved back over there, but I do not want two plant so similar in coloration this close. In another 2 weeks or so, I'll have some real nice stems of it and will be able to rescape a larger group and have more options to explore. It contrast nicely with the UG and the Fissidens, and the downoi looks decent as long as I have a Fissidens finger between them.

If I move the L pilosa, then this opens up a new spot in the mid foreground row also.

 

[faizal]

This is like an aquatic plant heaven 😀 .

 

[flygja]

Hey Tom, can you distill your success down to a few simple layman equations and let us know? I am crazy astounded by your tank! I can't even get Rotala rotundifolia to turn red even after blasting with light and spamming iron like mad. Am gonna try limiting NO3 to see if it works.

I'm starting to think LEDs don't work well with red plants...

 

[REDSTEVEO]

Er...WOW...Just spent an hour or two whizzing through this...a full day at least would be better...what can I say that hasn't already been said...Absolutely awesome

As the bald guy off Little Britain says..."I want that one!"

When I grow up I will have one like this.

What are or should I say were those individual little green plants that looked like thistle heads and how come they stayed so small?

Cheers,

Steve

 

[plantbrain]

Hey Tom, can you distill your success down to a few simple layman equations and let us know? I am crazy astounded by your tank! I can't even get Rotala rotundifolia to turn red even after blasting with light and spamming iron like mad. Am gonna try limiting NO3 to see if it works.

I'm starting to think LEDs don't work well with red plants...

Dosing is simple enough, ADa aqua soil sediment....... the light is also generally.

This leaves CO2.

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Dosing is simple enough, ADa aqua soil sediment....... the light is also generally.

This leaves CO2.

sounds so simple

that UG is frankly amazing.... starting to think that plants looking like this are just a matter of decades of experience and cant be explained on paper.
Must be nice to have a little smug grin when no one can see you 😉

 

[plantbrain]

No, nothing smug about it.

I freely tell folks what to do, but.....many have trouble with CO2.........or do not believe you and worry about stuff that does not really matter.

 

[foxfish]

There is a huge amount about bubble count on the forums but, you can put this in some perspective when Tom has suggested he uses about one fire extinguishers contents every two - two & a half months.
Toms tank is pretty big & he is using a very efficient & low maintenance method of distributing the C02 but that is quite a lot of gas & I suspect it does not vary much from month to month unlike a lot of other methods.

 

[plantbrain]

CO2 is on for about 7-7.5 hours per day.

 

[Park]

I hacked a sod out of the UG, left it and simply tucked the edge of the rug back under. I'll remove the rest of the rug and then replant plugs well packed into the area later. Did not feel like it yesterday so I left it.

Amazing UG carpet! What's the secret? Every time I try it it won't grow... 🙁 Last time I talked with Troels from Tropica and he suggested that I used some moss as base for the UG, it grew into the moss fine but slowly the leaves got thinner and thinner and fell off! I've got much Ca in my tap water could this be the reason? My water hardness is 17 dHG.

 

[plantbrain]

Low KH is the key, GH can be quite high, but not needed.

Generally, the tap water is about 20ppm alkalinity as CaCO3 (or KH about a little over 1 degree).

So our tap water is very good, SF, NYC also have similar tap water, Seattle etc.

This makes a big difference for some species, most weeds though do not care.