I find it especially amusing/tragic that this luscious coat of BBA is growing on one of the most expensive bucephalandras in the world
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Consistency Deficiency
- Thread starter Hufsa
- Start date
Hi all,
You maybe able to sell it for a huge margin, but if you do broker a deal you can guarantee at that point the BBA <"will shed itself"> for no apparent reason.
cheers Darrel
Just tell people that it is the ultimate exclusive<"designer look"> (like gold-plating a Rolls-Royce) and that the BBA frosting (sorry "organic, cruelty free, vegan Sable fur accents") are <"endorsed by royalty">.
You maybe able to sell it for a huge margin, but if you do broker a deal you can guarantee at that point the BBA <"will shed itself"> for no apparent reason.
cheers Darrel
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_Maq_
Member
My buces are dwarfed. But yes, BBA loves them. In my case, BBA is roughly the same size as buces leaves. Or bigger.
In short - I'm an expert at NOT keeping Araceae healthy.
I like this phrase, I'll try to remember it. Generally, Norwegian English is an amazing source of inspiration to me.
Uhm, that was not exactly my intention...
There's one thing I'm constantly worried about: Accumulation of toxic micronutrients. People overdose many many times. Where do those metals and boron end? If in filter, OK then, it's only waste of ferts (and money). But what if they accumulate in the substrate and then, one day, redox goes down a bit, par example due to less favourable water flow (in selected areas of the tank)?
I'm sorry to hear you're in less than perfect condition, but I would suggest repeated massive WC.
John q
Member
@Hufsa I've read and re read your journal today and kept homing in on a period between late August and early September, this to me is when things seemed to take a definite turn for the worse, other than the ongoing chlorosis issue, although even that seemed to be improving at this point.
I don't proclaim to know exactly why this happed, pointers could be changes to the ferts, reduced or skipping water changes, the algaecide you used, medication for the shrimp or removing the substrate, or maybe a combination of all these created a snowball effect.
Like most of my suggestions we should always take them with a large pinch of salt, but at least I thought I'd make you aware of it, maybe you'll remember something around this time and help connect the dots,
Either way I think what the tank is screaming for is a period of stability, to that end I agree with Maq what better way to start this than with a couple of big water changes, obviously if your feeling up to it.
I don't proclaim to know exactly why this happed, pointers could be changes to the ferts, reduced or skipping water changes, the algaecide you used, medication for the shrimp or removing the substrate, or maybe a combination of all these created a snowball effect.
Like most of my suggestions we should always take them with a large pinch of salt, but at least I thought I'd make you aware of it, maybe you'll remember something around this time and help connect the dots,
Either way I think what the tank is screaming for is a period of stability, to that end I agree with Maq what better way to start this than with a couple of big water changes, obviously if your feeling up to it.
MichaelJ
Member
Another couple of bits for the "What the heck is going on" puzzle
Buce leaves coming out severely twisted and with pink... veins? lesions?
View attachment 202263
View attachment 202264
I dont have much direct help to offer unfortunately, but in the few years I've been around on this forum I think I've only seen this level of BBA issues in tanks with CO2 being out of wack somehow... BBA seems to thrive especially well in wildly fluctuating CO2 and possibly other water and nutrient parameters - including organic waste. I am not a CO2 user and I never dealt with BBA issues to this extent, but I think you probably need to look into every nook and cranny of your CO2 (stable flow/distribution towards the bottom comes to mind), water source (I believe your using tap water - is it stable?) and probably lower on the list your fertilizer - I find it hard to believe this is solely a fertilizer related problem.
instability induced from lapses in maintenance would be high on my list as well.
I hope it will bounce back soon!
Cheers,
Michael
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xZaiox
Member
My experience with BBA definitely has me thinking that organic pollution plays an important role. I have had BBA melt away on it's own with increased cleanliness and no change to CO2. It makes me wonder if the CO2 connection that is always talked about is more of a secondary effect. I.e unstable CO2 -> worsened plant health -> more organics ejected into the water column -> BBA. This would also make sense of why low-flow areas sometimes get it - because the organics in that area aren't being swept away to the filter. Conversely, some people find it appears at the points of highest flow, perhaps if the tank has a lot of organics circulating, then the BBA will grow here to get a regular supply?
I've also noticed BBA seems to really like softer types of driftwood. Like, I've had all sorts of driftwood over the years, and the really hard and dense stuff never seems to get BBA, whereas the softer spiderwood / azalea root that sheds stuff and decays easier gets it all the time. Of course these are just my personal findings, and I recognise not all tanks are alike. Plus there are probably multiple types of BBA that get lumped into one name...
even after you fix the thing that is causing the BBA (eg: Co2, organic waste), you still have to remove the BBA. Dipping the entire plant in a Hydrogen Peroxide bath is quite an effective but expensive method, but I suppose justifiable for an expensive Buce. And maybe you can try with a less preciouss plant first....
plantnoobdude
Member
A low dose of hydrogen peroxide spot dosed Is usually very safe for plants and fish. Taking the plant out will work as well.
I’ve always found BBA to be caused either by inconsistent CO2 or high organics. You don’t have seem to have a source of high organics in your tank such as large amounts of driftwood or a high fish stock, so I would say inconsistent CO2 may be the issue.
Always had good results spot dosing with liquid carbon to remove existing bba. I find rams horns snails also good for keeping the bba suppressed once the initial treatment has been completed.
Cheers
Always had good results spot dosing with liquid carbon to remove existing bba. I find rams horns snails also good for keeping the bba suppressed once the initial treatment has been completed.
Cheers
Courtneybst
Member
For dipping plants post-BBA outbreak, I've had great success with citric acid. I mix a teaspoon or so into a cup of water and soak the plants for several minutes (I've done up to 20 minutes). It works wonders on Bucephalandra without any damage to the plant, and it's perfectly safe for humans.
I appreciate the input from everyone, but I cant help but feel that the focus is placed slightly off. Im not really focused on the BBA, im focused on the plant growth.
Healthy plants first and the algae usually sorts itself, right? 😊
So the pictures were meant to highlight the plants, particularly the very abnormal leaf growth, the algae is just secondary.
As long as the plants have more health to be gained, I dont really see the point in focusing so much on algae.
I didn't have time to mention this before now but the very thick growth of BBA, it seems to not be so healthy any more. Some of it is turning thin and scraggly looking and falling off. I know for absolutely certain that the CO2 was NOT stable from this fall to whenever it was that I came back to life. The tank is more stable now and gets more maintenance, so it might be why the BBA isnt as happy any more.
Either way, my focus is on the plants for now.
The BBA is not causing the leaves to grow out twisted. The cause of the BBA might be causing it, but not the BBA directly. So my goal is to help the plant grow better, and then it will fend off the algae.
Since I haven't performed a ph profile in a little bit, I have strapped the Adwa pen to the tank again, and will do some profiles over the coming days. Then we can be sure if the CO2 needs a little work or a lottle work.
But theres still something off with ferts, so if anyone has any input on that I would gratefully hear them 😊
Pretty sure I will end up increasing to 20 NO3, 2 PO4 and lower K to 5 this weekend.
Probably not change anything about the micros unless I have some sort of A-HA! moment.
Thinking of remaking all ferts with either acetic acid or one of the strong acids. Because the citric might be causing problems.
Healthy plants first and the algae usually sorts itself, right? 😊
So the pictures were meant to highlight the plants, particularly the very abnormal leaf growth, the algae is just secondary.
As long as the plants have more health to be gained, I dont really see the point in focusing so much on algae.
I didn't have time to mention this before now but the very thick growth of BBA, it seems to not be so healthy any more. Some of it is turning thin and scraggly looking and falling off. I know for absolutely certain that the CO2 was NOT stable from this fall to whenever it was that I came back to life. The tank is more stable now and gets more maintenance, so it might be why the BBA isnt as happy any more.
Either way, my focus is on the plants for now.
The BBA is not causing the leaves to grow out twisted. The cause of the BBA might be causing it, but not the BBA directly. So my goal is to help the plant grow better, and then it will fend off the algae.
Since I haven't performed a ph profile in a little bit, I have strapped the Adwa pen to the tank again, and will do some profiles over the coming days. Then we can be sure if the CO2 needs a little work or a lottle work.
But theres still something off with ferts, so if anyone has any input on that I would gratefully hear them 😊
Pretty sure I will end up increasing to 20 NO3, 2 PO4 and lower K to 5 this weekend.
Probably not change anything about the micros unless I have some sort of A-HA! moment.
Thinking of remaking all ferts with either acetic acid or one of the strong acids. Because the citric might be causing problems.
Ever since I switched from Ascorbic Acid to Citric Acid, I have been getting these floaty particles in my ferts towards the end of the two month period I make them for.
Im wondering if this is bacteria feeding on the citric acid, it seems to be known for being delicious.. (?)
Ascorbic was interacting with my Molybdenum, which is why I switched from that. But the floaties dont look great either and makes me unsure if the fertilizer is still intact, ie the nutrients are making it to the plants before some bacteria have a party with them.
Picture of macro solution
plantnoobdude
Member
I have noticed this as well. It seems to be particularly tasty for bacteria.
_Maq_
Member
I gather you meant stock solutions of chelated micros, right? Do you use some blend - like CSM+B - or make separate ferts?
You know, molybdenum is dosed in the form of molybdate, i.e. as an anion, and as such, it cannot be chelated.
As far as I can judge, ascorbic acid is used as a reducing agent to keep iron bivalent (not to oxidize to trivalent - bivalent is green, trivalent yellow-red-brown depending on concentration). Can't see any reason to add it to other metals, unless you use bivalent manganese.
You've been using citric acid to keep the solution acidic and render the chelates more stable? Then yes, citric acid may be tasty for microbes.
I'm not sure what would happen if mixing chelates (EDTA etc.) with a strong mineral acid.
You know, molybdenum is dosed in the form of molybdate, i.e. as an anion, and as such, it cannot be chelated.
As far as I can judge, ascorbic acid is used as a reducing agent to keep iron bivalent (not to oxidize to trivalent - bivalent is green, trivalent yellow-red-brown depending on concentration). Can't see any reason to add it to other metals, unless you use bivalent manganese.
You've been using citric acid to keep the solution acidic and render the chelates more stable? Then yes, citric acid may be tasty for microbes.
I'm not sure what would happen if mixing chelates (EDTA etc.) with a strong mineral acid.
I have stock solutions for every trace except Fe and Mn, this is correct. Purely because I dont want to place too much faith in the accuracy of the scale at such minute amounts. I use the stock solutions whether the trace is chelated or not, it is purely because of the tiny amounts. B, Mo and Ni are not EDTA chelated. My salts for those are Boric Acid, Ammonium Molybdate and Nickel Sulfate. The other traces are the EDTA version, except for Fe (various chelates).
Previously I used potassium sorbate and ascorbic acid in these stock solutions.
After the problem with the Molybdenum stock solution was discovered and figured out (interaction with Ascorbic, turned strange colors), I stopped adding any acid or preservative to the stock solutions. They are refrigerated anyway.
But when I take from the stock solutions and combine them in the final micro fertilizer, I dont want to use Ascorbic here. Since I assume it will still mess with the Molybdenum.
So I switched acid to Citric Acid for final fertilizer mixes. Does that make sense? These final mixes are the ones that go in the auto dosing containers and get added to the tank. They must be stable for around 2 months, unrefrigerated.
Im not using acid specifically for the chelates no. Its for the whole mixture, to keep it acidic and help the potassium sorbate work.
I believe this was meant to be written like this: "Inhibition of nitrification in the presence of low oxygen caused by very high CO2 levels" which usually result in lower PH as well. we can certainly discuss about this on separate thread if you like?
@_Maq_ feel free to correct something that you may see that might have been wrong or misrepresented on another thread, so we can correct this error.
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John q
Member
Re read my original post, I never mentioned bba.. 😀
