plantnoobdude
Member
Of course…..
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Consistency Deficiency
- Thread starter Hufsa
- Start date
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KirstyF
Member
Full approval from @KirstyF 😂
The Mn at 0.15 will also match what I’m dosing, though I guess that could be neither here nor there. Different strokes and all that! 😊
If ur up to it, I think a few water changes might help knock back some of that slimy algae too, just by reducing ur organics. 🤞
I’ll update on my progress with my Fe dosing as it’s only been a week since I went back to DTPA only, but I’ve a couple of minor signs of paleness in new growth on my blyxa. May mean nothing as I’ve done a bit of thinning out, so they’ve been disturbed, but I know you were interested so I’ll keep you posted. 😊
Good to see you back on-line. Stay well! 😊
The Mn at 0.15 will also match what I’m dosing, though I guess that could be neither here nor there. Different strokes and all that! 😊
If ur up to it, I think a few water changes might help knock back some of that slimy algae too, just by reducing ur organics. 🤞
I’ll update on my progress with my Fe dosing as it’s only been a week since I went back to DTPA only, but I’ve a couple of minor signs of paleness in new growth on my blyxa. May mean nothing as I’ve done a bit of thinning out, so they’ve been disturbed, but I know you were interested so I’ll keep you posted. 😊
Good to see you back on-line. Stay well! 😊
Attachments
Overdue for another update, my health has been very poor and I havent been able to do much at all to the aquarium, but I have managed to keep an eye on my frogbit and adjust a little bit over winter.
When we last left off we had established that my "chlorosis issue" was not due to CO2.
Im reposting the pictures of the frogbit from 5. - 6. december because I had a few more I hadnt shared.
As you can see when you compare the oldest leaves of the plants to the intermediate and newest leaves, the plants started out "ok-ish". The intermediate leaves (so medium age, not the oldest nor the newest leaves) display an overall paleness that could look a lot like an iron (Fe) deficiency / limitation. But as the limitation on plant growth progresses (the plant has more or less everything else it needs in good supply, except this one nutrient) the symptoms become more and more severe until new growth starts coming out necrotic. Overall plant growth is severely slowed down at this point because the plant doesnt have everything that it needs, and it cant resume growth without it.
Like I wrote in my last update, based on the reticulated pattern I was seeing when the deficiency/limitation got severe, I increased just the amount of Manganese the tank got.
---
^ This was the result as of 20th december, so 14 days after.
New leaf size was massively increased and no longer coming out necrotic. The frogbit got a huge boost in health and looked much happier.
While I cant rule out some contributing factors, like the plants also simultaneously being slightly limited by some other nutrient, it seems pretty apparent to me that the previous pictures show how frogbit looks while Manganese is the most limiting nutrient. I hope this may be of use to other hobbyists who may be struggling with chlorosis but not seeing much results with increased iron.
Frogbit health and size continued to increase, in the picture below from 23 dec you can see the old leaves contrast to the massive new leaves.
The new leaves were now displaying a more even paleness, and while I was happy with the big change in the right direction, I felt there was still more that could be improved.
I think the most limiting nutrient shifted to a different nutrient, which would explain the change in symptoms.
I decided to increase my micro additions overall, so the weekly dose went from:
0.3 ppm Fe (50% DTPA / 50% Gluconate)
0.15 ppm Mn
0.02 ppm Zn
0.02 ppm B
0.006 ppm Cu
0.009 ppm Mo
0.0001 ppm Ni
To:
0.42 ppm Fe (50% DTPA / 50% Gluconate)
0.21 ppm Mn
0.028 ppm Zn
0.028 ppm B
0.0085 ppm Cu
0.012 ppm Mo
0.00014 ppm Ni
The plants seemed to like this, and increased in overall size and growth speed even further (pics from 2. january).
Just to compare how far the plant health had come, look at the image below
However, despite the increase in size and speed the new leaves remained overall pale, if not slightly more pale now than before.
I decided to leave the current dosing running a little while longer, to see if it stabilized or changed in a way that would help me troubleshoot.
13. january, the frogbit had stabilized a bit and the greenness had evened out somewhat. But I wasnt all the way there yet on my quest to get the nicest greenest frogbit possible in my tank (which then should ensure my plants below have their nutrient demands sorted as long as they get enough light and CO2).
I felt like I could detect a faint reticulated pattern on the leaves, so I opted to increase just Manganese like I had before, since it had seemed to be a big part of the problem in the past.
(In hindsight I would have increased Fe instead of Mn, given the option of a do-over).
Weekly dose changed to this:
0.42 ppm Fe (50% DTPA / 50% Gluconate)
0.3 ppm Mn
0.028 ppm Zn
0.028 ppm B
0.0085 ppm Cu
0.012 ppm Mo
0.00014 ppm Ni
- - -
The frogbit didnt like that at all, no sir.
Within a week every new leaf was coming out curled / downturned, and color had not improved (20. january).
Wrong choice by me
I returned the autodoser to the previous settings and left the frogbit to uncurl itself.
I wanted to get back to the previous baseline first rather than switch directly from "higher Mn" to "higher Fe".
Unfortunately, since I had increased the addition of my Fe, Mn, and Micro solutions a while back, my ferts ran out before I had planned. I had also failed to write down in my calendar when this was due to happen, so I didnt pick up on it immediately. By math its possible it ran out already 21. january, and I estimate at least a week passed after that.
All of the plants in the tank got angry enough for me to finally notice, and thats when I had the good sense to check inside the cabinet.
So my little "science" (not science) experiment took a little detour. I got new ferts made 03. february, an unfortunate delay because of stupid health
But I hope the plants will bounce back quickly after their almost two week stint without any micros.
I want to note that I have greatly enjoyed using the frogbit index over this period, it is always fun to lift the tank lid occasionally and see what the frogbit has been up to.
Its super interesting to be able to see such large changes from relatively small tweaks
I still have my slimy green thread algae and a boatload of BBA. I wonder if the slimy green thread algae is strongly reinforcing the BBA. The slimy algae blocks the filter intakes, and im not able to keep up with cleaning even nearly often enough. Then the circulation in the tank is lowered, CO2 distribution is hindered, fluctuates with every cleaning cycle, and submersed plants suffer. The short life cycle of the slimy thread algae generates a lot of detritus, which is also not being removed as often as it should. This increases the organics in the tank massively.
Basically once the first slimy green thread algae bloom occurred, my tanks maintenance needs multiplied compared to what it normally needed.
I wonder if me not being able to increase my maintenance to match has at least contributed to how long the outbreak/bloom has lasted.
Im fairly certain that without increasing the maintenance, I dont stand a chance to beat the algae.
Theres not much I can do about life, especially when it just keeps giving you more lemons than you could ever make lemonade out of.
Im trying my hardest to keep the tank just barely going while I wait for all the lemons to stop falling from the sky. Maybe life will get bored and stop at some point
Until then I might be only a sporadic visitor to the forum. I miss participating in the discussions and I hope to return in full force, bright and beady eyed in the future!
💗 Big hugs from Hufsa 😊
When we last left off we had established that my "chlorosis issue" was not due to CO2.
Im reposting the pictures of the frogbit from 5. - 6. december because I had a few more I hadnt shared.
As you can see when you compare the oldest leaves of the plants to the intermediate and newest leaves, the plants started out "ok-ish". The intermediate leaves (so medium age, not the oldest nor the newest leaves) display an overall paleness that could look a lot like an iron (Fe) deficiency / limitation. But as the limitation on plant growth progresses (the plant has more or less everything else it needs in good supply, except this one nutrient) the symptoms become more and more severe until new growth starts coming out necrotic. Overall plant growth is severely slowed down at this point because the plant doesnt have everything that it needs, and it cant resume growth without it.
Like I wrote in my last update, based on the reticulated pattern I was seeing when the deficiency/limitation got severe, I increased just the amount of Manganese the tank got.
---
^ This was the result as of 20th december, so 14 days after.
New leaf size was massively increased and no longer coming out necrotic. The frogbit got a huge boost in health and looked much happier.
While I cant rule out some contributing factors, like the plants also simultaneously being slightly limited by some other nutrient, it seems pretty apparent to me that the previous pictures show how frogbit looks while Manganese is the most limiting nutrient. I hope this may be of use to other hobbyists who may be struggling with chlorosis but not seeing much results with increased iron.
Frogbit health and size continued to increase, in the picture below from 23 dec you can see the old leaves contrast to the massive new leaves.
The new leaves were now displaying a more even paleness, and while I was happy with the big change in the right direction, I felt there was still more that could be improved.
I think the most limiting nutrient shifted to a different nutrient, which would explain the change in symptoms.
I decided to increase my micro additions overall, so the weekly dose went from:
0.3 ppm Fe (50% DTPA / 50% Gluconate)
0.15 ppm Mn
0.02 ppm Zn
0.02 ppm B
0.006 ppm Cu
0.009 ppm Mo
0.0001 ppm Ni
To:
0.42 ppm Fe (50% DTPA / 50% Gluconate)
0.21 ppm Mn
0.028 ppm Zn
0.028 ppm B
0.0085 ppm Cu
0.012 ppm Mo
0.00014 ppm Ni
The plants seemed to like this, and increased in overall size and growth speed even further (pics from 2. january).
Just to compare how far the plant health had come, look at the image below
However, despite the increase in size and speed the new leaves remained overall pale, if not slightly more pale now than before.
I decided to leave the current dosing running a little while longer, to see if it stabilized or changed in a way that would help me troubleshoot.
13. january, the frogbit had stabilized a bit and the greenness had evened out somewhat. But I wasnt all the way there yet on my quest to get the nicest greenest frogbit possible in my tank (which then should ensure my plants below have their nutrient demands sorted as long as they get enough light and CO2).
I felt like I could detect a faint reticulated pattern on the leaves, so I opted to increase just Manganese like I had before, since it had seemed to be a big part of the problem in the past.
(In hindsight I would have increased Fe instead of Mn, given the option of a do-over).
Weekly dose changed to this:
0.42 ppm Fe (50% DTPA / 50% Gluconate)
0.3 ppm Mn
0.028 ppm Zn
0.028 ppm B
0.0085 ppm Cu
0.012 ppm Mo
0.00014 ppm Ni
- - -
The frogbit didnt like that at all, no sir.
Within a week every new leaf was coming out curled / downturned, and color had not improved (20. january).
Wrong choice by me
I returned the autodoser to the previous settings and left the frogbit to uncurl itself.
I wanted to get back to the previous baseline first rather than switch directly from "higher Mn" to "higher Fe".
Unfortunately, since I had increased the addition of my Fe, Mn, and Micro solutions a while back, my ferts ran out before I had planned. I had also failed to write down in my calendar when this was due to happen, so I didnt pick up on it immediately. By math its possible it ran out already 21. january, and I estimate at least a week passed after that.
All of the plants in the tank got angry enough for me to finally notice, and thats when I had the good sense to check inside the cabinet.
So my little "science" (not science) experiment took a little detour. I got new ferts made 03. february, an unfortunate delay because of stupid health
But I hope the plants will bounce back quickly after their almost two week stint without any micros.
I want to note that I have greatly enjoyed using the frogbit index over this period, it is always fun to lift the tank lid occasionally and see what the frogbit has been up to.
Its super interesting to be able to see such large changes from relatively small tweaks
I still have my slimy green thread algae and a boatload of BBA. I wonder if the slimy green thread algae is strongly reinforcing the BBA. The slimy algae blocks the filter intakes, and im not able to keep up with cleaning even nearly often enough. Then the circulation in the tank is lowered, CO2 distribution is hindered, fluctuates with every cleaning cycle, and submersed plants suffer. The short life cycle of the slimy thread algae generates a lot of detritus, which is also not being removed as often as it should. This increases the organics in the tank massively.
Basically once the first slimy green thread algae bloom occurred, my tanks maintenance needs multiplied compared to what it normally needed.
I wonder if me not being able to increase my maintenance to match has at least contributed to how long the outbreak/bloom has lasted.
Im fairly certain that without increasing the maintenance, I dont stand a chance to beat the algae.
Theres not much I can do about life, especially when it just keeps giving you more lemons than you could ever make lemonade out of.
Im trying my hardest to keep the tank just barely going while I wait for all the lemons to stop falling from the sky. Maybe life will get bored and stop at some point
Until then I might be only a sporadic visitor to the forum. I miss participating in the discussions and I hope to return in full force, bright and beady eyed in the future!
💗 Big hugs from Hufsa 😊
plantnoobdude
Member
Nutrient tunnel vision? Also you know what I'm going to say.... WHERE'S THE FTS.Overdue for another update, my health has been very poor and I havent been able to do much at all to the aquarium, but I have managed to keep an eye on my frogbit and adjust a little bit over winter.
When we last left off we had established that my "chlorosis issue" was not due to CO2.
Im reposting the pictures of the frogbit from 5. - 6. december because I had a few more I hadnt shared.
View attachment 200865View attachment 200866View attachment 200867
View attachment 200868View attachment 200869View attachment 200870
View attachment 200871View attachment 200872View attachment 200873
View attachment 200874View attachment 200875View attachment 200876
View attachment 200877
As you can see when you compare the oldest leaves of the plants to the intermediate and newest leaves, the plants started out "ok-ish". The intermediate leaves (so medium age, not the oldest nor the newest leaves) display an overall paleness that could look a lot like an iron (Fe) deficiency / limitation. But as the limitation on plant growth progresses (the plant has more or less everything else it needs in good supply, except this one nutrient) the symptoms become more and more severe until new growth starts coming out necrotic. Overall plant growth is severely slowed down at this point because the plant doesnt have everything that it needs, and it cant resume growth without it.
Like I wrote in my last update, based on the reticulated pattern I was seeing when the deficiency/limitation got severe, I increased just the amount of Manganese the tank got.
---
View attachment 200878
^ This was the result as of 20th december, so 14 days after.
New leaf size was massively increased and no longer coming out necrotic. The frogbit got a huge boost in health and looked much happier.
While I cant rule out some contributing factors, like the plants also simultaneously being slightly limited by some other nutrient, it seems pretty apparent to me that the previous pictures show how frogbit looks while Manganese is the most limiting nutrient. I hope this may be of use to other hobbyists who may be struggling with chlorosis but not seeing much results with increased iron.
View attachment 200879
Frogbit health and size continued to increase, in the picture below from 23 dec you can see the old leaves contrast to the massive new leaves.
The new leaves were now displaying a more even paleness, and while I was happy with the big change in the right direction, I felt there was still more that could be improved.
I think the most limiting nutrient shifted to a different nutrient, which would explain the change in symptoms.
View attachment 200881
I decided to increase my micro additions overall, so the weekly dose went from:
0.3 ppm Fe (50% DTPA / 50% Gluconate)
0.15 ppm Mn
0.02 ppm Zn
0.02 ppm B
0.006 ppm Cu
0.009 ppm Mo
0.0001 ppm Ni
To:
0.42 ppm Fe (50% DTPA / 50% Gluconate)
0.21 ppm Mn
0.028 ppm Zn
0.028 ppm B
0.0085 ppm Cu
0.012 ppm Mo
0.00014 ppm Ni
The plants seemed to like this, and increased in overall size and growth speed even further (pics from 2. january).
Just to compare how far the plant health had come, look at the image below
View attachment 200895
View attachment 200892View attachment 200893
View attachment 200894
However, despite the increase in size and speed the new leaves remained overall pale, if not slightly more pale now than before.
I decided to leave the current dosing running a little while longer, to see if it stabilized or changed in a way that would help me troubleshoot.
13. january, the frogbit had stabilized a bit and the greenness had evened out somewhat. But I wasnt all the way there yet on my quest to get the nicest greenest frogbit possible in my tank (which then should ensure my plants below have their nutrient demands sorted as long as they get enough light and CO2).
View attachment 200896View attachment 200897
I felt like I could detect a faint reticulated pattern on the leaves, so I opted to increase just Manganese like I had before, since it had seemed to be a big part of the problem in the past.
(In hindsight I would have increased Fe instead of Mn, given the option of a do-over).
Weekly dose changed to this:
0.42 ppm Fe (50% DTPA / 50% Gluconate)
0.3 ppm Mn
0.028 ppm Zn
0.028 ppm B
0.0085 ppm Cu
0.012 ppm Mo
0.00014 ppm Ni
- - -
The frogbit didnt like that at all, no sir.
View attachment 200898View attachment 200899
Within a week every new leaf was coming out curled / downturned, and color had not improved (20. january).
Wrong choice by me
I returned the autodoser to the previous settings and left the frogbit to uncurl itself.
I wanted to get back to the previous baseline first rather than switch directly from "higher Mn" to "higher Fe".
Unfortunately, since I had increased the addition of my Fe, Mn, and Micro solutions a while back, my ferts ran out before I had planned. I had also failed to write down in my calendar when this was due to happen, so I didnt pick up on it immediately. By math its possible it ran out already 21. january, and I estimate at least a week passed after that.
All of the plants in the tank got angry enough for me to finally notice, and thats when I had the good sense to check inside the cabinet.
So my little "science" (not science) experiment took a little detour. I got new ferts made 03. february, an unfortunate delay because of stupid health
But I hope the plants will bounce back quickly after their almost two week stint without any micros.
I want to note that I have greatly enjoyed using the frogbit index over this period, it is always fun to lift the tank lid occasionally and see what the frogbit has been up to.
Its super interesting to be able to see such large changes from relatively small tweaks
I still have my slimy green thread algae and a boatload of BBA. I wonder if the slimy green thread algae is strongly reinforcing the BBA. The slimy algae blocks the filter intakes, and im not able to keep up with cleaning even nearly often enough. Then the circulation in the tank is lowered, CO2 distribution is hindered, fluctuates with every cleaning cycle, and submersed plants suffer. The short life cycle of the slimy thread algae generates a lot of detritus, which is also not being removed as often as it should. This increases the organics in the tank massively.
Basically once the first slimy green thread algae bloom occurred, my tanks maintenance needs multiplied compared to what it normally needed.
I wonder if me not being able to increase my maintenance to match has at least contributed to how long the outbreak/bloom has lasted.
Im fairly certain that without increasing the maintenance, I dont stand a chance to beat the algae.
Theres not much I can do about life, especially when it just keeps giving you more lemons than you could ever make lemonade out of.
Im trying my hardest to keep the tank just barely going while I wait for all the lemons to stop falling from the sky. Maybe life will get bored and stop at some point
Until then I might be only a sporadic visitor to the forum. I miss participating in the discussions and I hope to return in full force, bright and beady eyed in the future!
💗 Big hugs from Hufsa 😊
Anyway, nice to hear from you😀 hope you're taking care.
_Maq_
Member
Extremely inspiring. Hats off to Norway!
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
That looks pretty conclusive. Manganese (Mn) is one of the nutrients in <"Chempak Sequestered Iron"> and deficiencies would effect new leaves.Like I wrote in my last update, based on the reticulated pattern I was seeing when the deficiency/limitation got severe, I increased just the amount of Manganese the tank got.
---
^ This was the result as of 20th december, so 14 days after.
New leaf size was massively increased and no longer coming out necrotic. The frogbit got a huge boost in health and looked much happier.
While I cant rule out some contributing factors, like the plants also simultaneously being slightly limited by some other nutrient, it seems pretty apparent to me that the previous pictures show how frogbit looks while Manganese is the most limiting nutrient. I hope this may be of use to other hobbyists who may be struggling with chlorosis but not seeing much results with increased iron.
cheers Darrel
Been doing a little bit better lately, so heres another update including the much requested (and legally required) FTS
Sensitive viewers might want to look away, there is a LOT of BBA
The tank got a water change and some trimming / algae removal this weekend, which is why there is much less green thread algae than usual. The top spray bar was stripped of its luscious coat of fur so that it may once again illuminate our path with its glorious greyness. The CO2 spray bar still has its fur, because im afraid of taking the plasti-dip coating off along with the algae.
My treasured Thiara sand snails died a while back while I was fighting the shrimp parasite, and I havent yet gotten hold of new snails. I could have gotten ordinary malaysian trumpet snails, but I guess I am fancy and want the Thiara snails again because their shells are just more beautiful to me. I should be able to source some again once the weather gets warm enough for shipping.
Im concerned that the very fine sand that I have is not nice for the plants any more, now that there is nothing living in the sand. Sand needs the sand snails, thats just how I feel about it.
Since I dont currently have any sensitive snails I have to consider, I have been dosing some Salicylic based algae remedy about once a week. I cant tell if its making a difference to the algae tbh, which I guess means that its definitely not a wonder cure. Not even sure wonder cures are a thing when it comes to our tanks any way.
To try to break the vicious cycle of growth, decay, detritus, growth... of thread algae and get an upper hand, I have ordered some API Algaefix (the one with Busan 77).
Its apparently currently somewhere in Wisconsin 🙃 Im not entirely confident it will make it over here, especially since shipping liquids tends to be a bit hit and miss if the seller doesnt secure the bottle well. But we shall see. The shrimp will have to be removed from the tank for such a treatment, it is absolutely deadly to them. Im considering rehoming the shrimp altogether as they dont bring me joy any more after how long they were sick and stressing me out, and im almost regretful that I chose them over the Thiara snails.
I thought I would do a plant update too while im at it.
When I remade the fertilizer last time I rounded up the numbers for just about all the micro nutrients.
The last good place they were at, when the frogbit was large and pretty happy looking aside from a little bit of even paleness,
the tank was getting this weekly:
0.42 ppm Fe (50% DTPA / 50% Gluc)
0.21 ppm Mn
0.028 ppm Zn
0.028 ppm B
0.0085 ppm Cu
0.012 ppm Mo
0.00014 ppm Ni
I rounded them up to:
0.5 ppm Fe (50% DTPA / 50% Gluc)
0.25 ppm Mn
0.033 ppm Zn
0.033 ppm B
0.010 ppm Cu
0.014 ppm Mo
0.0001 ppm Ni (This one doesnt really need to go above this amount, and is technically not needed for my setup. My tap water contains more than enough Ni so its inclusion in the mix is symbolic.)
I dont have a very good reason for the rounding, other than that I am a deeply flawed human being that likes neat looking numbers and really wanted to do so.
So far the frogbit is not McLovin' It*
(* For @dw1305 )
They are pale all over and looking kinda crumpled. Not growing very fast.
The two weeks the tank ran without micros hit pretty hard. Micros may be small but they are certainly not insignificant. Especially for a CO2 injected tank and/or a tank with inert substrate.
It was interesting to see the frogbit respond so hard to a mobile nutrient deficiency in addition to the immobile ones, as the old leaves on the frogbit rapidly turned very bad looking as the plant scavenged what it needed and relocated it to the newest parts. They were so poor that I already pinched off the worst leaves, so unfortunately they didnt make it in the picture.
Most micro nutrients seem to be immobile, with Mo seemingly the only mobile nutrient, and Zn having partial mobility (from what I can remember).
Ill let the frogbit grow some more on this dosing and see if they get any better, if not I guess I will have to strictly remake it the way it was before.. (ugh)
🌿Short LONG and probably highly uninteresting notes on some of the other plants:
Bolbitis heteroclita "Cuspidata"
Alive and growing, seems to be a tough plant. Its partially covered in BBA, but trudging on regardless.
Seems to be a relatively small growing variety of Bolbitis, although not as small as some of the collector type Bolbitis, which I find to be uselessly puny.
Hymenasplenium Obscurum "Dark Spleenwort"
The new fronds are now of a much larger size when it arrived, this is not a small plant, maybe just shy of 20cm at the moment. Otherwise doing much like the one above, some BBA and some growth.
It was cool to discover that this plant can propagate with making plantlets way out on its roots. Not the rhizome as I would define it, but way out on thin roots baby plants can appear. It has produced two babies so far but they are still much smaller than the mother.
Pteridophyta sp. "Niah"
Also still alive, gosh dang these exotic ferns have been good about not dying while being totally neglected by me. Same here with slow growth and BBA.
Didymoglossum sp. "Buea Goliath"
Covered in a lot of BBA, smaller leaves at the moment than what I was expecting it to have, but really hanging in there. Growth habit very similar to Crepidomanes with disorganised loose branches.
Microsorum pteropus 'Windeløv'
I threw this one out because my collectoritis has firmly caught up with me. Not even magic and HufsaTM Bag-of-Holding can store all of these plant species once they start growing. I took a hard look at it and the Trident fern and decided I would rather have the Trident if I had to choose.
Crepidomanes sp. Javanicus, Crepidomanes sp. Vietnam II, Crepidomanes sp. Vietnam III
All of these are still alive, although like most of the other slow growers very highly covered in BBA. I hope to lessen the amount of BBA growth soon, because im pretty sure some of the plants wont be able to take it much longer.
Bucephalandra sp. Brownie Ghost 2011-2012
Covered in BBA but a very beautiful purple buce. Has several shoots now, if I can get it clean of algae (at some point in 2055) I can sell one or two andbuy myself a whole norwegian priced beer turn the oven up a little bit higher so my electrical-price-induced-tears dont freeze solid on my cheeks.
Bucephalandra sp. Dark Achilles
Melted 😢 Got too heavily shaded by other plants and BBA, and one day this winter I found the top two leaves floating around the tank. The rest was mush.. It has a very small baby somewhere in the left side of the tank, but the baby is struggling to outpace the BBA covering it. I kept the two leaves from the old plant, hoping they might resprout if given some time.
The apparent death of this motherplant lead to a bit of an intervention in the left hand side. I thought the plants I placed here wanted to be more shaded, but I was wrong apparently, or let them get too shaded.
Bucephalandra sp "Brownie Ghost Aquaflora"
Removed to make more space for the more precious (to me) buces
Bucephalandra sp. Kedagang (Tropica), Black Ventii, Blue Green, Pearl Grey, Silver Grey
Quite angry with me and have been melting in the newest leaves. Black Ventii got heavily shaded and started melting in the rhizome too.
Ammannia pedicellata 'Golden'
Got tired of looking at a twisted plant that wasnt growing, threw it out. Its not too hard to buy in the country so can always try it again later if I feel like my life is too easy and want to torture myself a bit.
'Ludwigia sp. 'Marilia'
Ludwigia glandulosa
Rotala rotundifolia 'Orange Juice'
Rotala rotundifolia "Blood Red SG"
Rotala macrandra "Mini Type 4"
Good boys and girls that are trying their best. Marilia and Blood Red stand out as the easiest among them, although this may be further influenced by their slightly more central position in the tank. They didnt like when I dimmed the light for the algae, so I was forced to turn it back up again a bit. Protesting generally about whacky fertilizer levels and circulation and CO2 delivery being all over the place. Always get happier when they get closer to the surface, its better lit and has got better flow.
Heteranthera zosterifolia
This plant needs weekly trimming in CO2 tanks and I could only do biweekly for some time.
It shaded all the neighboring plants and almost killed some of them. Had enough and threw this one out also.
Myriophyllum sp. 'Guyana', Tonina fluviatilis
Guyana is a great background plant because its bushy and green but grows relatively slowly. This means you can let it be quite tall and near the surface if you want, without needing to retrim it 10 minutes later like some of its cousins.
Tonina has complained a little bit about ferts, but is otherwise a really solid plant. Should not be considered difficult in my opinion. Definitely not a problem to grow with 3 dKH.
Cryptocoryne spiralis 'Red'
Got angry about shading and started melting in protest. Much happier now that the neighboring stargrass has been removed.
Cryptocoryne striolata 'Tiger'
Cryptocoryne striolata 'Mini'
Cryptocoryne 'Queen Vandom'
Cryptocoryne yujii
Cryptocoryne ferruginea
Mystery Crypts (Poss. "Nensies", "Sparta")
Some of the special crypts are gonezo
Im not entirely sure which ones I have left, they are so small and struggling with BBA.
They never started growing after the last time I moved them, and have been fading away slowly ever since.
Theres one or two left that look like they may be yujii. One bit of something green like Queen Vandom or Nensies, but this one will die soon im pretty sure.
Another little bit of what might be Tiger, which will probably also be dead soon.
Im a bit sad about losing them, but theres not much I can do about it.
Blyxa japonica & Pogostemon helferi
The former got really straw colored when the micros ran out, but at least the helferi is mostly green now. The latter is growing pretty slowly because its not quite happy, so I think it just didnt notice the tank ran out of micros, aka didnt have time to make any chlorotic leaves.
Hydrocotyle tripartita "Mini"
Absolute weed as usual. After the inevitable heat death of the universe, Hydrocotyle tripartita will still be found growing in the vacuum of space, subsisting of apparently nothing
Plagiochilaceae sp. "Cameroon Moss"
Riccardia sp. "graeffei"
Lomariopsis cf. lineata "Susswassertang"
Vesicularia sp. "Mini Christmas Moss"
Hydropogonella gymnostoma "Queen Moss"
These are still around but struggling with BBA.
Fissidens fontanus "Phoenix Moss"
Bucephalandra Moss
Crystal Moss
Im surprised by these three, they almost seem to be resistant to BBA in some way. There is hardly any BBA on them compared to some of the other mosses. Could be influenced by placement, but theres BBA growing right next to them on other stuff, and yet these are almost free of it. Funky
I must remember to grab a top down picture of the last two, their subtle differences can be seen now.
Fissidens sp. "Miroshaki"
Fissidens sp. "Mallorca"
Not doing very well at all ☹️ Almost entirely covered in BBA, and have been growing in that particular stressed way where the Fissidens moss makes a lot of fine rhizomes and itty bitty little shoots. Im concerned they will actually die soon and think I should remove a few bits to safekeep emersed, because I really want these.
Vesicularia sp. "Tortoise"
Didnt like how this was growing enough to warrant keeping it in the tank. Still got some emersed though for collectoritis purposes
Hygrophila pinnatifida 'Uttara Kannada' / UK
Gone, grew too well, got too big All pinnatifida needed to like my tank was CO2 apparently.
Apparently the UK version is slightly bigger than the regular variety. I measured A SINGLE LEAF that was a whopping 28 cm long, thats more than halfway across the tank!
Bacopa caroliniana "Colorata" & Ludwigia polycarpa
Only emersed specimens now. My emersed plants havent been doing well over winter, but seem to have picked up a little bit lately. I wonder if its the cold.
Sensitive viewers might want to look away, there is a LOT of BBA
The tank got a water change and some trimming / algae removal this weekend, which is why there is much less green thread algae than usual. The top spray bar was stripped of its luscious coat of fur so that it may once again illuminate our path with its glorious greyness. The CO2 spray bar still has its fur, because im afraid of taking the plasti-dip coating off along with the algae.
My treasured Thiara sand snails died a while back while I was fighting the shrimp parasite, and I havent yet gotten hold of new snails. I could have gotten ordinary malaysian trumpet snails, but I guess I am fancy and want the Thiara snails again because their shells are just more beautiful to me. I should be able to source some again once the weather gets warm enough for shipping.
Im concerned that the very fine sand that I have is not nice for the plants any more, now that there is nothing living in the sand. Sand needs the sand snails, thats just how I feel about it.
Since I dont currently have any sensitive snails I have to consider, I have been dosing some Salicylic based algae remedy about once a week. I cant tell if its making a difference to the algae tbh, which I guess means that its definitely not a wonder cure. Not even sure wonder cures are a thing when it comes to our tanks any way.
To try to break the vicious cycle of growth, decay, detritus, growth... of thread algae and get an upper hand, I have ordered some API Algaefix (the one with Busan 77).
Its apparently currently somewhere in Wisconsin 🙃 Im not entirely confident it will make it over here, especially since shipping liquids tends to be a bit hit and miss if the seller doesnt secure the bottle well. But we shall see. The shrimp will have to be removed from the tank for such a treatment, it is absolutely deadly to them. Im considering rehoming the shrimp altogether as they dont bring me joy any more after how long they were sick and stressing me out, and im almost regretful that I chose them over the Thiara snails.
I thought I would do a plant update too while im at it.
When I remade the fertilizer last time I rounded up the numbers for just about all the micro nutrients.
The last good place they were at, when the frogbit was large and pretty happy looking aside from a little bit of even paleness,
the tank was getting this weekly:
0.42 ppm Fe (50% DTPA / 50% Gluc)
0.21 ppm Mn
0.028 ppm Zn
0.028 ppm B
0.0085 ppm Cu
0.012 ppm Mo
0.00014 ppm Ni
I rounded them up to:
0.5 ppm Fe (50% DTPA / 50% Gluc)
0.25 ppm Mn
0.033 ppm Zn
0.033 ppm B
0.010 ppm Cu
0.014 ppm Mo
0.0001 ppm Ni (This one doesnt really need to go above this amount, and is technically not needed for my setup. My tap water contains more than enough Ni so its inclusion in the mix is symbolic.)
I dont have a very good reason for the rounding, other than that I am a deeply flawed human being that likes neat looking numbers and really wanted to do so.
So far the frogbit is not McLovin' It*
(* For @dw1305 )
They are pale all over and looking kinda crumpled. Not growing very fast.
The two weeks the tank ran without micros hit pretty hard. Micros may be small but they are certainly not insignificant. Especially for a CO2 injected tank and/or a tank with inert substrate.
It was interesting to see the frogbit respond so hard to a mobile nutrient deficiency in addition to the immobile ones, as the old leaves on the frogbit rapidly turned very bad looking as the plant scavenged what it needed and relocated it to the newest parts. They were so poor that I already pinched off the worst leaves, so unfortunately they didnt make it in the picture.
Most micro nutrients seem to be immobile, with Mo seemingly the only mobile nutrient, and Zn having partial mobility (from what I can remember).
Ill let the frogbit grow some more on this dosing and see if they get any better, if not I guess I will have to strictly remake it the way it was before.. (ugh)
🌿
Bolbitis heteroclita "Cuspidata"
Alive and growing, seems to be a tough plant. Its partially covered in BBA, but trudging on regardless.
Seems to be a relatively small growing variety of Bolbitis, although not as small as some of the collector type Bolbitis, which I find to be uselessly puny.
Hymenasplenium Obscurum "Dark Spleenwort"
The new fronds are now of a much larger size when it arrived, this is not a small plant, maybe just shy of 20cm at the moment. Otherwise doing much like the one above, some BBA and some growth.
It was cool to discover that this plant can propagate with making plantlets way out on its roots. Not the rhizome as I would define it, but way out on thin roots baby plants can appear. It has produced two babies so far but they are still much smaller than the mother.
Pteridophyta sp. "Niah"
Also still alive, gosh dang these exotic ferns have been good about not dying while being totally neglected by me. Same here with slow growth and BBA.
Didymoglossum sp. "Buea Goliath"
Covered in a lot of BBA, smaller leaves at the moment than what I was expecting it to have, but really hanging in there. Growth habit very similar to Crepidomanes with disorganised loose branches.
I threw this one out because my collectoritis has firmly caught up with me. Not even magic and HufsaTM Bag-of-Holding can store all of these plant species once they start growing. I took a hard look at it and the Trident fern and decided I would rather have the Trident if I had to choose.
Crepidomanes sp. Javanicus, Crepidomanes sp. Vietnam II, Crepidomanes sp. Vietnam III
All of these are still alive, although like most of the other slow growers very highly covered in BBA. I hope to lessen the amount of BBA growth soon, because im pretty sure some of the plants wont be able to take it much longer.
Bucephalandra sp. Brownie Ghost 2011-2012
Covered in BBA but a very beautiful purple buce. Has several shoots now, if I can get it clean of algae (at some point in 2055) I can sell one or two and
Bucephalandra sp. Dark Achilles
Melted 😢 Got too heavily shaded by other plants and BBA, and one day this winter I found the top two leaves floating around the tank. The rest was mush.. It has a very small baby somewhere in the left side of the tank, but the baby is struggling to outpace the BBA covering it. I kept the two leaves from the old plant, hoping they might resprout if given some time.
The apparent death of this motherplant lead to a bit of an intervention in the left hand side. I thought the plants I placed here wanted to be more shaded, but I was wrong apparently, or let them get too shaded.
Removed to make more space for the more precious (to me) buces
Bucephalandra sp. Kedagang (Tropica), Black Ventii, Blue Green, Pearl Grey, Silver Grey
Quite angry with me and have been melting in the newest leaves. Black Ventii got heavily shaded and started melting in the rhizome too.
Got tired of looking at a twisted plant that wasnt growing, threw it out. Its not too hard to buy in the country so can always try it again later if I feel like my life is too easy and want to torture myself a bit.
'Ludwigia sp. 'Marilia'
Ludwigia glandulosa
Rotala rotundifolia 'Orange Juice'
Rotala rotundifolia "Blood Red SG"
Rotala macrandra "Mini Type 4"
Good boys and girls that are trying their best. Marilia and Blood Red stand out as the easiest among them, although this may be further influenced by their slightly more central position in the tank. They didnt like when I dimmed the light for the algae, so I was forced to turn it back up again a bit. Protesting generally about whacky fertilizer levels and circulation and CO2 delivery being all over the place. Always get happier when they get closer to the surface, its better lit and has got better flow.
This plant needs weekly trimming in CO2 tanks and I could only do biweekly for some time.
It shaded all the neighboring plants and almost killed some of them. Had enough and threw this one out also.
Myriophyllum sp. 'Guyana', Tonina fluviatilis
Guyana is a great background plant because its bushy and green but grows relatively slowly. This means you can let it be quite tall and near the surface if you want, without needing to retrim it 10 minutes later like some of its cousins.
Tonina has complained a little bit about ferts, but is otherwise a really solid plant. Should not be considered difficult in my opinion. Definitely not a problem to grow with 3 dKH.
Cryptocoryne spiralis 'Red'
Got angry about shading and started melting in protest. Much happier now that the neighboring stargrass has been removed.
Cryptocoryne striolata 'Tiger'
Cryptocoryne striolata 'Mini'
Cryptocoryne 'Queen Vandom'
Cryptocoryne yujii
Cryptocoryne ferruginea
Mystery Crypts (Poss. "Nensies", "Sparta")
Some of the special crypts are gonezo
Im not entirely sure which ones I have left, they are so small and struggling with BBA.They never started growing after the last time I moved them, and have been fading away slowly ever since.
Theres one or two left that look like they may be yujii. One bit of something green like Queen Vandom or Nensies, but this one will die soon im pretty sure.
Another little bit of what might be Tiger, which will probably also be dead soon.
Im a bit sad about losing them, but theres not much I can do about it.
Blyxa japonica & Pogostemon helferi
The former got really straw colored when the micros ran out, but at least the helferi is mostly green now. The latter is growing pretty slowly because its not quite happy, so I think it just didnt notice the tank ran out of micros, aka didnt have time to make any chlorotic leaves.
Hydrocotyle tripartita "Mini"
Absolute weed as usual. After the inevitable heat death of the universe, Hydrocotyle tripartita will still be found growing in the vacuum of space, subsisting of apparently nothing
Plagiochilaceae sp. "Cameroon Moss"
Riccardia sp. "graeffei"
Lomariopsis cf. lineata "Susswassertang"
Vesicularia sp. "Mini Christmas Moss"
Hydropogonella gymnostoma "Queen Moss"
These are still around but struggling with BBA.
Fissidens fontanus "Phoenix Moss"
Bucephalandra Moss
Crystal Moss
Im surprised by these three, they almost seem to be resistant to BBA in some way. There is hardly any BBA on them compared to some of the other mosses. Could be influenced by placement, but theres BBA growing right next to them on other stuff, and yet these are almost free of it. Funky
I must remember to grab a top down picture of the last two, their subtle differences can be seen now.
Fissidens sp. "Miroshaki"
Fissidens sp. "Mallorca"
Not doing very well at all ☹️ Almost entirely covered in BBA, and have been growing in that particular stressed way where the Fissidens moss makes a lot of fine rhizomes and itty bitty little shoots. Im concerned they will actually die soon and think I should remove a few bits to safekeep emersed, because I really want these.
Vesicularia sp. "Tortoise"
Didnt like how this was growing enough to warrant keeping it in the tank. Still got some emersed though for collectoritis purposes
Gone, grew too well, got too big
All pinnatifida needed to like my tank was CO2 apparently.Apparently the UK version is slightly bigger than the regular variety. I measured A SINGLE LEAF that was a whopping 28 cm long, thats more than halfway across the tank!
Bacopa caroliniana "Colorata" & Ludwigia polycarpa
Only emersed specimens now. My emersed plants havent been doing well over winter, but seem to have picked up a little bit lately. I wonder if its the cold.
ARE YOU HAPPY NOW 😁
I finally got started on the black plumbing for my tank.
Oh boy, that has been a long time in the making. Ive wanted black pipework for years now, just had issues getting it implemented exactly the way I want it.
Even now I have immediately hit a bit of a roadblock
I got some metric black PVC pipes and fittings back in november. I had custom ordered 1m lengths, but the seller had an issue with the package being returned soon after, and we decided to cut them to 50cm lengths after all.
Not quite ideal as my spray bars are longer than 50cm and I have to use two pieces plus a connector now. The seller was kind enough to send me free connecting pieces since I couldnt get the lengths I wanted.
I inspected the goods visually back in november and they all looked great, but since my health wasnt amazing I couldnt start my project immediately.
Now that I have started I have discovered that the majority of the pipes have some sort of production faults on the inside 😭
A few examples:
They have these jagged protrusions that in a lot of the pipes go all along the length in this rotating sort of pattern.
I dont want to use the pipes with this damage, because I feel like they would be hard to keep clean as algae and debris be stuck on there.
Only two of the pipes are clean of these defects, they are still a bit more uneven than most PVC pipes I have seen, but they are workable enough to be used.
My option to open a Dispute on the order through Aliexpress has long since passed😕, but I have politely contacted the seller and sincerely hope they will rectify the issue in some way.
The order total was equivalent to 100 GBP so it wasnt like these were extremely cheap pipes and fittings 😢💸
The fittings could be better as they are so tight towards the end of the sockets that there is no way to get the pipes seated fully into them, but I was willing to work around that.
Arg! I was so ready to get my plumbing switched out from that hideous luminous grey! 😩
While I wait for a resolution I should have enough pipe to swap the main water spray bar which is the biggest eyesore of the tank.
Im feeling very discouraged with the project, but I will try to get that part done regardless.
Ive been putting off writing about this but I regretfully think I will also switch to an external CO2 reactor
Its not that the CO2 spray bar doesnt work, its very effective at getting CO2 into the water, it just unfortunately comes down to my aesthetic preferences.
Ive tried it out long enough now that I know that I would prefer to have the CO2 injection out of sight, and being sensitive to sounds I would like to get rid of the sound from the bubble overflow.
I still think the CO2 spray bar is a really strong concept, so its just that for me personally some of the minor details like visuals end up being rather important.
I guess I will have to make that magnetic flux quantum resonating CO2 reactor after all huh 😅
I will probably start a separate thread about this, as I havea few a lot of questions.
During the fateful/terrible november sales I also got a big ol' adjustable flow pump, Jebao DCP-5000.
This has a flow rate of 5500L/h, which at full output should be like 22 times turnover for my 250 liter tank.
I dont think I will be using it at full output, but I kinda wanted something future proof that I can definitely use even if I get a larger tank.
Information about it is a bit confusing, but I think it is "adjustable between 30%-100% in 1 Watt increments", whatever that works out to.
The minimum setting 30% of 5500L/h should be 1650L/h.
The Ultramax 2000 canister im currently using for the top spray bar is rated at 2000L/h (not accounting for filter media, fluid dynamics, friction and gnome sabotage).
So I think I should be able to find a setting that gives comfortable turnover for my tank.
I think it would be nice to have something thats powerful enough so if flow is for whatever reason lacking, I can just turn it up a notch.
Ive had the notion for a while to separate the influence of filter media from CO2 distribution, meaning keeping CO2 injection + main circulation of the tank on a separate loop/system from filtration.
It doesnt mean that im planning on letting my filter media get all clogged up, but it would make sure that filtration wont really influence the circulation and CO2 supply of the tank.
I know some skilled aquarists already use this style of setup and swear by it.
This means ill probably get rid of one of my canister filters, im leaning towards keeping the Eheim but I havent made the final decision yet.
I need to figure out how I can run this pump externally without risking sand getting to the impeller.
My current 0.1-0.5 mm sand is very light and has a higher risk of getting sucked up through the intakes than normal sand would have.
Normally its not a problem because any small sprinkling of sand settles on the bottom of my canister filters, and doesnt have a chance to reach the impellers which are situated in the top.
If I were to run this Jebao pump without any sort of filter before it, what would stop the sand from making its way into the impeller?
Now that I think about it, maybe I could use my old Eheim canister thats currently in storage..
If I remove the Eheim impeller and mount the Jebao pump on the pressure side of the canister, that should make it just a fancy prefilter no?
It will add some flow reduction for sure but thats why I got a pump rated for way more than I need.
If I wanted to I could even put my biological filter media in this Eheim, its only those ceramic rings that dont really clog or need much cleaning other than a light shake up every now and then.
That would leave a bit more room for mechanical filtration and its inherent variability in flow for the other Eheim canister that wont be on the CO2 loop.
I will think about it some more
I also need to decide on whether I want this new pump (assuming it works, I need to test it
) to run just the top spray bar, or also my Hufsa™ bottom spray bar.
If I want it to run both spray bars, I can set them up in a square configuration, so that the water pressure is evenly distributed along the lengths of both bars.
In either case, if I set up the Jebao and I am satisfied with how it works and whatnot, I should pick up a spare pump at some point.
Jebao is an ~ok brand but they are said to be more hit and miss than our regular (and far more expensive) local brand pumps.
I wouldnt want to be in a position where the pump just dies suddenly, leaving me with no functional CO2 and main circulation system.
I think thats all the ramblings I have for now 😁
Im happy to be back in the swing of things a little bit again, I missed you lot 😘
Oh boy, that has been a long time in the making. Ive wanted black pipework for years now, just had issues getting it implemented exactly the way I want it.
Even now I have immediately hit a bit of a roadblock
I got some metric black PVC pipes and fittings back in november. I had custom ordered 1m lengths, but the seller had an issue with the package being returned soon after, and we decided to cut them to 50cm lengths after all.
Not quite ideal as my spray bars are longer than 50cm and I have to use two pieces plus a connector now. The seller was kind enough to send me free connecting pieces since I couldnt get the lengths I wanted.
I inspected the goods visually back in november and they all looked great, but since my health wasnt amazing I couldnt start my project immediately.
Now that I have started I have discovered that the majority of the pipes have some sort of production faults on the inside 😭
A few examples:
They have these jagged protrusions that in a lot of the pipes go all along the length in this rotating sort of pattern.
I dont want to use the pipes with this damage, because I feel like they would be hard to keep clean as algae and debris be stuck on there.
Only two of the pipes are clean of these defects, they are still a bit more uneven than most PVC pipes I have seen, but they are workable enough to be used.
My option to open a Dispute on the order through Aliexpress has long since passed😕, but I have politely contacted the seller and sincerely hope they will rectify the issue in some way.
The order total was equivalent to 100 GBP so it wasnt like these were extremely cheap pipes and fittings 😢💸
The fittings could be better as they are so tight towards the end of the sockets that there is no way to get the pipes seated fully into them, but I was willing to work around that.
Arg! I was so ready to get my plumbing switched out from that hideous luminous grey! 😩
While I wait for a resolution I should have enough pipe to swap the main water spray bar which is the biggest eyesore of the tank.
Im feeling very discouraged with the project, but I will try to get that part done regardless.
Ive been putting off writing about this but I regretfully think I will also switch to an external CO2 reactor
Its not that the CO2 spray bar doesnt work, its very effective at getting CO2 into the water, it just unfortunately comes down to my aesthetic preferences.
Ive tried it out long enough now that I know that I would prefer to have the CO2 injection out of sight, and being sensitive to sounds I would like to get rid of the sound from the bubble overflow.
I still think the CO2 spray bar is a really strong concept, so its just that for me personally some of the minor details like visuals end up being rather important.
I guess I will have to make that magnetic flux quantum resonating CO2 reactor after all huh 😅
I will probably start a separate thread about this, as I have
During the fateful/terrible november sales I also got a big ol' adjustable flow pump, Jebao DCP-5000.
This has a flow rate of 5500L/h, which at full output should be like 22 times turnover for my 250 liter tank.
I dont think I will be using it at full output, but I kinda wanted something future proof that I can definitely use even if I get a larger tank.
Information about it is a bit confusing, but I think it is "adjustable between 30%-100% in 1 Watt increments", whatever that works out to.
The minimum setting 30% of 5500L/h should be 1650L/h.
The Ultramax 2000 canister im currently using for the top spray bar is rated at 2000L/h (not accounting for filter media, fluid dynamics, friction and gnome sabotage).
So I think I should be able to find a setting that gives comfortable turnover for my tank.
I think it would be nice to have something thats powerful enough so if flow is for whatever reason lacking, I can just turn it up a notch.
Ive had the notion for a while to separate the influence of filter media from CO2 distribution, meaning keeping CO2 injection + main circulation of the tank on a separate loop/system from filtration.
It doesnt mean that im planning on letting my filter media get all clogged up, but it would make sure that filtration wont really influence the circulation and CO2 supply of the tank.
I know some skilled aquarists already use this style of setup and swear by it.
This means ill probably get rid of one of my canister filters, im leaning towards keeping the Eheim but I havent made the final decision yet.
I need to figure out how I can run this pump externally without risking sand getting to the impeller.
My current 0.1-0.5 mm sand is very light and has a higher risk of getting sucked up through the intakes than normal sand would have.
Normally its not a problem because any small sprinkling of sand settles on the bottom of my canister filters, and doesnt have a chance to reach the impellers which are situated in the top.
If I were to run this Jebao pump without any sort of filter before it, what would stop the sand from making its way into the impeller?
Now that I think about it, maybe I could use my old Eheim canister thats currently in storage..
If I remove the Eheim impeller and mount the Jebao pump on the pressure side of the canister, that should make it just a fancy prefilter no?
It will add some flow reduction for sure but thats why I got a pump rated for way more than I need.
If I wanted to I could even put my biological filter media in this Eheim, its only those ceramic rings that dont really clog or need much cleaning other than a light shake up every now and then.
That would leave a bit more room for mechanical filtration and its inherent variability in flow for the other Eheim canister that wont be on the CO2 loop.
I will think about it some more
I also need to decide on whether I want this new pump (assuming it works, I need to test it
) to run just the top spray bar, or also my Hufsa™ bottom spray bar.If I want it to run both spray bars, I can set them up in a square configuration, so that the water pressure is evenly distributed along the lengths of both bars.
In either case, if I set up the Jebao and I am satisfied with how it works and whatnot, I should pick up a spare pump at some point.
Jebao is an ~ok brand but they are said to be more hit and miss than our regular (and far more expensive) local brand pumps.
I wouldnt want to be in a position where the pump just dies suddenly, leaving me with no functional CO2 and main circulation system.
I think thats all the ramblings I have for now 😁
Im happy to be back in the swing of things a little bit again, I missed you lot 😘
Last edited:
ScareCrow
Member
Not that you should have to but as you say, now that the time has passed to raise a complaint, could you sand the inside of the pipe? If you were to find something close to the internal diameter (piece of cork or a section of pipe with a slit cut in it to allow it to be squashed to a smaller diameter). Stick some sand paper on it and then attach to a piece of string. You could pass the sand paper back and forth through the pipe removing the rough edges. Not the most fun way to spend your time I'm sure.
Ossie
Member
Hello,
May I ask where did you get your Brownie Ghost …
Thank you
Tom …
May I ask where did you get your Brownie Ghost …
Thank you
Tom …
Ossie
Member
Thank you Hufsa …
Ossie
Member
€90 from Poland … Too expensive for me …
plantnoobdude
Member
You will struggle to find this plant cheaper and get it into the Uk. Only a few people have this plant currently.
As some of you may have noticed I am a little bit less dead as of late
So I have been able to get my hands in the tank a few times a week to pull algae out, waft around the plants (im a big fan of this) and keep the filter intakes clean(er) 😃
The Aquael Ultramax filter that is responsible for the top spray bar has been spitting out air every now and then for months, and I was quite certain it was because the intakes clogged quite severely between the rare maintenance sessions I could do for a while. So I figured the filter must be sucking in air somewhere. I thought the filter would stop doing this once I kept the intakes unclogged, it has gotten better but it hasnt stopped entirely.
Im wondering if its still sucking in air from somewhere, maybe from somewhere that opened slightly when the intakes were clogged, but then kept allowing air in even though intakes are better now.
I think I need to go over the hoses and piping stuff and refit everything and make sure everything is sealed and tight. Also clean and lubricate the seals on the canister itself in case thats where its coming in.
Ive also become increasingly aware that the flow of the tank is lower than it was when I set up the system originally. Even though as I said filter intakes are being maintained and the spray bar itself has been cleaned.
The hoses were done not too long ago, and dont look particularly dirty. Ill do all of it this weekend to really get on top of it, but im not entirely sure why its lost performance unless its just the air thats to blame.
My plants continue to complain, for example easy plants like Rotala Orange Juice is really struggling with stunting, and I think it looks a lot like a CO2/flow issue in the way that it is presenting itself.
Ive been having some curious bucephalandra melt that I dont really know for sure why is happening. At this rate the buce might actually die. They are not plants that complain easily compared to stemplants, so for them to melt is fairly dramatic.
Im seeing shrimp 💩 settling on the sand in areas where im pretty sure the original flow was too strong to allow anything to settle.
My tank is and feels incredibly dirty compared to how it used to be (it used to be pretty squeaky clean), but when I go to clean the filters they are much cleaner than I would expect them to be.
So the tank is keeping all this detritus and stuff laying around on the substrate and in the plants, instead of getting it flushed away to the mechanical filter media where I can more easily remove it.
I know we have some differing opinions about mechanical filter media and what people find is the best practice. It probably comes down to personal preferences and routines.
I think using the canister filters as a vacuum is a little bit of a bad idea if you dont want to open your canister filter more than once a year to clean them.
But I like to clean the canister filters regularly, and find it much easier to clean those than it is to clean a tank full of fine sand and so many nooks and crannies.
So I dont allow big bits to enter my canister filter, but I do want all the small particles (<0.5mm) to get stuck there because thats how I find them most easy to remove.
In periods where I can clean the filters very often I might even use some filter floss, but if im unsure about how long it will be until next maintenance session, then I definitely dont want floss in there.
So the detritus situation also indicates that the tank isnt running like it should. I think this may be a major factor into why there is so much algae currently.
As you know I am tweaking a little bit of the fertilizer now and then based on the results from the frogbit, but for the plants below it is an entirely different story.
Its like if you have congestive heart failure but youre trying to get in shape with a training programme. The best training programme in the world isnt gonna do you any good if your heart is not working well.
So its entirely pointless right now to try to look at the submerged plants for fertilizing cues, when the basics like flow and CO2 are not where they need to be. The flow also delivers the nutrients to the plant, so it really is like the heart and blood circulation of the system.
If I cant get the flow back to where it was with the steps I mentioned above, then I am tempted to hook up the Jebao Overkill-5000 to the tank before the new reactor is ready.
My bucephalandra are really struggling and I dont know how much longer they can hold on, they need some CPR or something 😅
Something needs to be done soon (Which is obviously why im sitting here writing a long journal post about it instead of starting, because my brain is stupid 😤)
Alright, ok I will start the plumbing cleaning now 💪 Wish me luck (I usually end up with brown hose goop on my face and across half the kitchen 😂 )
So I have been able to get my hands in the tank a few times a week to pull algae out, waft around the plants (im a big fan of this) and keep the filter intakes clean(er) 😃
The Aquael Ultramax filter that is responsible for the top spray bar has been spitting out air every now and then for months, and I was quite certain it was because the intakes clogged quite severely between the rare maintenance sessions I could do for a while. So I figured the filter must be sucking in air somewhere. I thought the filter would stop doing this once I kept the intakes unclogged, it has gotten better but it hasnt stopped entirely.
Im wondering if its still sucking in air from somewhere, maybe from somewhere that opened slightly when the intakes were clogged, but then kept allowing air in even though intakes are better now.
I think I need to go over the hoses and piping stuff and refit everything and make sure everything is sealed and tight. Also clean and lubricate the seals on the canister itself in case thats where its coming in.
Ive also become increasingly aware that the flow of the tank is lower than it was when I set up the system originally. Even though as I said filter intakes are being maintained and the spray bar itself has been cleaned.
The hoses were done not too long ago, and dont look particularly dirty. Ill do all of it this weekend to really get on top of it, but im not entirely sure why its lost performance unless its just the air thats to blame.
My plants continue to complain, for example easy plants like Rotala Orange Juice is really struggling with stunting, and I think it looks a lot like a CO2/flow issue in the way that it is presenting itself.
Ive been having some curious bucephalandra melt that I dont really know for sure why is happening. At this rate the buce might actually die. They are not plants that complain easily compared to stemplants, so for them to melt is fairly dramatic.
Im seeing shrimp 💩 settling on the sand in areas where im pretty sure the original flow was too strong to allow anything to settle.
My tank is and feels incredibly dirty compared to how it used to be (it used to be pretty squeaky clean), but when I go to clean the filters they are much cleaner than I would expect them to be.
So the tank is keeping all this detritus and stuff laying around on the substrate and in the plants, instead of getting it flushed away to the mechanical filter media where I can more easily remove it.
I know we have some differing opinions about mechanical filter media and what people find is the best practice. It probably comes down to personal preferences and routines.
I think using the canister filters as a vacuum is a little bit of a bad idea if you dont want to open your canister filter more than once a year to clean them.
But I like to clean the canister filters regularly, and find it much easier to clean those than it is to clean a tank full of fine sand and so many nooks and crannies.
So I dont allow big bits to enter my canister filter, but I do want all the small particles (<0.5mm) to get stuck there because thats how I find them most easy to remove.
In periods where I can clean the filters very often I might even use some filter floss, but if im unsure about how long it will be until next maintenance session, then I definitely dont want floss in there.
So the detritus situation also indicates that the tank isnt running like it should. I think this may be a major factor into why there is so much algae currently.
As you know I am tweaking a little bit of the fertilizer now and then based on the results from the frogbit, but for the plants below it is an entirely different story.
Its like if you have congestive heart failure but youre trying to get in shape with a training programme. The best training programme in the world isnt gonna do you any good if your heart is not working well.
So its entirely pointless right now to try to look at the submerged plants for fertilizing cues, when the basics like flow and CO2 are not where they need to be. The flow also delivers the nutrients to the plant, so it really is like the heart and blood circulation of the system.
If I cant get the flow back to where it was with the steps I mentioned above, then I am tempted to hook up the Jebao Overkill-5000 to the tank before the new reactor is ready.
My bucephalandra are really struggling and I dont know how much longer they can hold on, they need some CPR or something 😅
Something needs to be done soon (Which is obviously why im sitting here writing a long journal post about it instead of starting, because my brain is stupid 😤)
Alright, ok I will start the plumbing cleaning now 💪 Wish me luck (I usually end up with brown hose goop on my face and across half the kitchen 😂 )
_Maq_
Member
I'd like to draw your attention to another variable (apart from water flow) - microbes. I'm using no filtration, yet I do care for water flow, with venturi for oxygenation. While nothing differs from previous treatment or among tanks, sometimes I can observe snails' droppings accumulating, while most of the time bacteria make it disappear perfectly. No, I don't have the solution inside my sleeves, but I believe microbes' well-being is at the core of the problem. Sometimes I try some kind of bacterial inoculation, sometimes it seems to work (both detritus and algae are receding), other times it apparently fails to deliver any discernible effects. A bit mysterious, our microbes, indeed!
When I do my water change and tank maintenance (i.e. uprooting plants), there is inevitably dirt/dust in the water column which I don't necessarily want sucked up into my canister filter because I don't want to clean my canister filters too regularly.
I feel that the best compromise is to have an 'in-tank' usb pump with a fine filter (in my case i use a 200micron filter pad) attached to suck up the dirt in the water column while I am doing the tank maintenance and for a few hours thereafter, to make sure all the algae too fine for regular sponges gets sucked up. That plus the in-tank UV for a few hours after water/change maintenance has also improved my algae situation
So I cleaned and lubricated all the seals on both canister filters, but even then the flow didnt return quite to where it was before, and I wasnt satisfied.
I think this might just be that the filter media is now fully mature, and possibly offers more resistance to the flow through the canisters even when its "cleaned".
The media will never be "like new" again, nor do we want it to.
Unhappy with both the flow and the crustyness of the tank, I set in motion my new operation called;
Make the tank clean again!
-And the algae will pay for it!
I went ahead and set up the Jebao Overcompensator-5000, and lets just say "Now we're cooking with gas"
Left side of tank cabinet now:
Eheim (Experience 350) canister filter, but this has had the impeller and impeller cover removed.
The canister now contains all the ceramic biomedia that were previously in both canisters, those little hollow cylinder things.
Driving this glorified prefilter / sand trap is the Jebao pump, currently running at what the display calls 16% output, or 40 watts. 30 watts is the lower limit, I should figure out what the upper is..
I like this pump so far, there was a few edges on the plastic fittings that you wouldnt see on more expensive pumps, but its really quite silent even when running at full tilt (which I guess is that Sine wave technology thingamajig), and the overall quality of the pump doesnt make me fear that it will break at any moment like I feel with the Yidao.
The price for this pump was way below what I would have had to pay for a "more reputable brand" pump.
After the pump I have plumbed in the old Yidao CO2 reactor again. Yes I know
Im not happy with it either.
Ive got it set up like this internally, the internal venturi keeps the gas pocket in check, but makes an awful racket all through the CO2 period.
In addition to the noise, the reactor is putting a lot of micro bubbles into the tank (because the flow and injection rate I use doesnt seem compatible with this reactor setup),
but to be honest I dont really care right now.
This is just to get CO2 to the plants until my custom reactor with magnetic plasma infusion coils and a quadruple quantum chamber is ready to be used.
My melting buce and BBA strangled mosses (weirdly the ones struggling the worst, not the stunt-y stem plants) needed help NOW and not in 3-4+ weeks.
The Overcompensator-5000 has absolutely no trouble driving flow through all of this, even with a canister filter full of rings and makeshift plumbing that hasnt been optimized. Im pleased.
This loop drives only the top spray bar, at least for now.
The right side of the cabinet;
Now houses the Aquael (Ultramax 2000) which now only contains sponges (mechanical filtration). Also put in a bit of floss at the end.
The inline heater sits on the output, and this loop drives the bottom spray bar.
I see the Aquael spitting out bubbles occasionally, even after my thorough resealing. But since its switched over to the bottom spray bar, the bubbles no longer make a loud meowing sound as they exit, which has previously been driving me absolutely insane. So im ok with the improvement for now.
Im keeping a very close eye on the filter floss, because I felt the tank was so dirty and I do not want clogging. I checked it again after about a week, but the floss was (surprisingly to me) almost pristine.
It barely even had an off white color. Maybe ive gotten more dirt out of the tank already than I thought I had. I have been cleaning the fine intake mesh in the tank several times per week.
I will continue to keep an eye on the filter floss either way.
The flow in the tank is much better and just a couple of days after the change over I noticed improved growth in R. mac. "Mini Red" and R. r. "Orange Juice".
They havent been growing very well for some time, with stunting and crinkling of tops, and this seems to have lessened somewhat, although its not fixed entirely yet.
In my eyes this improvement supports that some of these plants problems being CO2 and flow related, but what would I know about such things, with my nutrient tunnel vision 😁
Previously this week I was graced to look upon the majesty of his high noodliness himself, the Long Serpent.
Apparently he has taken up permanent residence in the mini tripartita bush, and finds it rather comfortable.
So comfortable in fact that I was allowed to gaze upon his splendid visage for several minutes.
He (yes I have indeed assumed his gender, as he has not become egg bound like most female noodles do) -and the other noodles like to hollow out the underside (undo my planting efforts) of this tripartita bush so it forms a nice canopy under which they can rest. Previously this was the designated shrimp hang-out spot, but they appear to have been evicted by the noodles.
Im thinking about planting more of the tripartita in other areas of the tank, so that the noodles can be comfortable in other areas too.
I dont doubt that they would prefer less bright lighting than in a high tech planted tank, they would probably not need much more than dim ambient light.
Leaf litter is a little bit difficult to have with high flow, but a loosely structured carpeting plant in more areas might do the trick
I could cover up the bare portions of sand between the buces and crypts on the left hand side, for instance. Then the noodles can unplant and make networks under the plants as they please 😊
When I had more of them they were out and about quite a lot during the day, and seemed to be more comfortable than now. Then I lost a portion of the herd, from what I can only assume were late effects of shipping and moving stress, and when the overall number decreased the rest went into hiding. Im thinking about getting more of them again to rebuild the group, but for now I can make changes to the planting and hope they will approve of my efforts.
Thats a good obeservation 😊
My microbial community most likely took a hit when I disturbed the sand substrate this fall.
I wouldnt be surprised if this upset of the tanks "natural balance" contributed to the algae outbreak.
Ive actually been meaning to go back again to read through the last year of the journal, to see if I can connect a few dots that have become more clear after the fact.
My frogbit has done alright on the dosing that has been running lately, but the plants overall are pale looking, and dont grow as fast as I would expect.
They are paler looking overall in real life than what is showing on the pictures.
This time it almost seems like the oldest leaves are the ones struggling the most. The new leaves are still coming in a little light, but this feels secondary to the increasing decay rate of old leaves.
The frogbit overall is "ok", but ok is not my goal.
Im thinking about Liebigs barrel.. If my plants got more Manganese, which they appear to previously have been lacking, another nutrient/factor takes its place as the most limiting. Something will be in the shortest supply at all times. Our task as plantkeepers, and especially those who wish to get as good plant growth as possible like myself, will be to shift the most limiting nutrient/factor onto something we find beneficial, like light for example. Or a relatively balanced limitation across a broader group of nutrients. These appear to lead to what we humans find to be attractive plant growth.
This shift in the frogbit condition has led me to reconsider my macro dosing somewhat. Because they have the "aerial advantage" CO2 can be ruled out, otherwise it should definitely be among the things considered. Carbon is a nutrient, and flow is our nutrient delivery system. (Oh my gawd the nutrient tunnel vision is spreading 😱)
..I like to narrow things down based on probability (including known problem factors) and the amount of each nutrient needed by the plants.
Starting with carbon, nitrogen, potassium, and so on down the list when I try to interpret the observations.
I front loaded a little bit more macros when I did the last water change based on the frogbit, but I didnt increase the daily dosing by the autodoser since I didnt want to run out of macro ferts prematurely.
If I think the frogbit actually needs a higher level of macros, I will have to increase the daily dosing as well.
I might do this soon, to see if I guessed right or wrong on my frogbit reading
If it doesnt improve then ill go back again, simple as that.When I started my attempt at a kind of lean dosing for my tank, it was from curiosity and the desire to observe what would happen. I didnt and still dont care where I end up, I just want to experiment to find what works for my tank. Whatever the reasons may be, it appears my particular tank (guided by my plants) has ended up somewhere in medium dosing territory for now.
Some (like PND) have seen great success with going super lean, others found it didnt work well for them.
I feel like ive learned a ton since changing my tank to CO2 injection, not just managing the sneaky gas, but since everything happens so much faster, you can experience and overcome way more problems in the same amount of time
Im starting to believe that KH, GH and to some extent ratios matter a bit more than we like to admit. I dont think they are the be-all-end-all, but I think it might be very wishful thinking to entirely dismiss them.
The human mind's desire for things to have black and white answers should not be underestimated.
I suspect these factors all interact with the big picture, science certainly seems to indicate it.
I feel like im seeing trends based on KH especially, and I hope to learn more about how it influences things across the community.
For fun and to see if the results aligned with my suspicions of the frogbit or not,
In my case I am more interested in changes to the normal trend for my tank than specific numbers.
I didnt place much weight on the NO3 reading, its known to be a problematic test and I think mine has been opened for some time now. Next time I will use a freshly opened test.
PO4 usually tests around 0.4-0.6 ppm. Now it was around 0.15 ppm. Fe usually tests around 0.2-0.3 ppm. Now it was around 0.07 ppm.
The dosing of micros has been increased over the past months, so if anything the Fe might be expected to sit higher.
The macros have been the same for a while, but I did recently change how I do my front loading. I moved the front loading over to the water change barrel, instead of dosing directly into the tank.
Because of this stuff and details we dont have to go into, the tank may have gotten maybe 25% less front loaded ferts. Thats why I did a bit of extra front loading last time, because I picked up on the changes from the frogbit, and thought they might be connected.
Im also checking the TDS now and then, and the TDS could seem to be increasing at a slower rate than what it has typically done.
I havent checked it frequently enough to be sure, but I will make an effort to check more often and of course write it down, lest it slip directly back out of my teflon coated brain 😅
I dont think it would be wild for the plants to need more of the big nutrients if a strong limitation on something (like Mn) was removed. Overall growth increases, overall nutrient demand increases.
It tracks in my head but I have been wrong before and I will definitely be wrong again 😁 In this case the best way to find out is to try it.
The fortnightly water change is coming up, so I will increase macro (front loaded and weekly dose) a bit then.
This post turned out longer than I had planned
