Consistency Deficiency

[plantnoobdude]

I sorta meant if people think the values should be higher or sound ok. As for the accuracy, I just dont have the spare energy to make up standards to compare to right now, I wish I had 😟 It took me most of the day just to finish up that post.
So lets just pretend they are reasonably accurate for now. If my dosing is going more towards something like medium EI then getting extremely accurate results should matter less, no?

Fair enough,

As for potassium, yeah I mean, a huge amount of tanks run APT complete levels, so try clone macros off that, and use the last most successful micro mix? Just an idea. Maybe quarter urea and 3/4 No3?
If I remember correctly standard EI wasn’t working well for you at all? (Guessing that’s where the chlorosis issue)So it wouldn’t make much sense to go back there.

If I assume correctly, would it be fair to say the majority of issues were present when you were dosing EI as well?

 

[Hufsa]

I think your test results are in line with the level of ferts you dose the tank. Whilst I don't test these days I think these tests are accurate enough for our purposes.

Thanks, yeah that kinda makes sense, its about 1/3 of what I dose for both now that I look at it that way.
Interestingly my tank didnt turn pink this week, so I think the plants helped themselves to some more iron than before.

Been down that rabbit hole myself mate and it didn't work for whatever reason. Hate to see you stressed about this, we live, we learn.
It's better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all.

Eh im not particularly stressed about it, other than when people get really up in arms (on both sides). I just want to try stuff and see what sticks without people mocking me or getting upset about stuff.
I feel like I have learned a lot (and im definitely not done learning), so its been interesting. Although it is a little frustrating to think back on that a big part of the problem ive been having these months may have been caused by the water changes

As for potassium, yeah I mean, a huge amount of tanks run APT complete levels, so try clone macros off that, and use the last most successful micro mix? Just an idea. Maybe quarter urea and 3/4 No3?

Thats one of the things thats been bugging me for a while. Why does so many mixes (even big commercial hydroponic ones) use a bit more K. Maybe it is like Calcium, where the plant doesnt actually need a ton, but we find somehow that having a bit more just seems to make things run smoothly. I dont think there is anyone arguing that the plants actually need 4-6 GH worth of Calcium and Magnesium to grow, but there sure are a lot of people remineralizing to this range. What we put in the tank and what goes in the plant isnt necessarily the same after all.

If I remember correctly standard EI wasn’t working well for you at all? (Guessing that’s where the chlorosis issue)So it wouldn’t make much sense to go back there.
If I assume correctly, would it be fair to say the majority of issues were present when you were dosing EI as well?

Thats kind of the problem. Since I only started using CO2 injection in february, we dont have a "before" baseline for my tank with high growth rate. I was dosing 0.5 DTPA iron for a few weeks with pretty bad chlorosis, but I was also doing those really big water changes at the same time. So im not sure really. I would like to try to reproduce that issue, but as always there's a very long list of things I would like to try 🤭 and now that im being extra good about not doing them all at once, I have to prioritize even harder.

My goal is still to have a low-ish amount of excess in my tank. I dont want to compromise plant growth, but with my health being up and down in periods it would be a relief for things not to go all out of whack if I suddenly need to do just one water change per month for a bit. I cant really plan for it because I dont know when it will happen next. So I want a stable tank with nice plants that can take a little bit of a beating occasionally. As ive said before im really just looking to find something that works for my setup and my life 🤷‍♀️

 

[plantnoobdude]

Why does so many mixes (even big commercial hydroponic ones) use a bit more K.

"plants grown in the presence of NO3– take up and accumulate more K+ than when grown with NH4+. However, little is known about the direct influences produced by one ion on the transport of the other (Coskun et al., 2017)."

Do hydroponic fertilisers usually contain plenty of ammoniacal nitrogen? If not then the above may explain the need for extra potassium, also higher gh, maybb be influence the need for higher K. They kinda go hand In hand I think. Must admit I haven’t read the whole thing… but I need to soon😄

Potassium plays an essential role as counter-ion of NO3–, facilitating the uptake, translocation, and distribution of these ions between roots and shoots (Engels and Marschner, 1993; Zhang et al., 2010; Rodenas

 

[Hufsa]

"plants grown in the presence of NO3– take up and accumulate more K+ than when grown with NH4+. However, little is known about the direct influences produced by one ion on the transport of the other (Coskun et al., 2017)."

Do hydroponic fertilisers usually contain plenty of ammoniacal nitrogen? If not then the above may explain the need for extra potassium, also higher gh, maybb be influence the need for higher K. They kinda go hand In hand I think. Must admit I haven’t read the whole thing… but I need to soon😄

Potassium plays an essential role as counter-ion of NO3–, facilitating the uptake, translocation, and distribution of these ions between roots and shoots (Engels and Marschner, 1993; Zhang et al., 2010; Rodenas

Very interesting, I need to check more of the hydroponic ones to answer that, I will for sure get back to you but it might take me a few days before I can do it

I ran into an obstacle with researching hydroponic mixes, that being that some of the brands have an absolutely ridiculously huge lineup of ferts complete with elaborate drawings on the packaging and all manner of nonsense, and absolutely no info to be found on what they contain, not even on the manufacturers website.
It seems with hydroponics being an even newer fad than aquascaping, the amount of (excuse the french) bullsh*t that the marketing departments are up to are at record breaking levels.
Last time I was trying to look into it I had to step away from the computer for a while, as the concept of a Cotton Candy Flavored Bud Growth Hyper 2000 Ultimate Tuesdays nutrient mix existing made me somewhat nauseated and looking to get off the planet at the next available stop.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Do hydroponic fertilisers usually contain plenty of ammoniacal nitrogen

<"Some do">, <"some don't">.

Ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3) gives you most <"bang for your buck"> (after urea (CO(NH2)2)) and neither adds another nutrient.

Potassium nitrate (KNO3) is usually regarded more as a potassium source, rather then a nitrogen one, although it obviously supplies both nutrients.

cheers Darrel

 

[Hufsa]

@plantnoobdude I turned the fish tank lights back on just to take these pictures for you, you better 'preciate! 😉

Also hello everyone else I am somewhat back from my month long absence(not really absent tho I was lurking)


Behold the tank in all its half-maintained glory:

I took one photo where the stems are visible..
..and one photo where the buce are visible


If anyone is wondering what happened to the java ferns.. scissors. Scissors happened to the java ferns.
The problem with java ferns and bolbitis for that matter, is that you cant really tell that its growing.
But one day you realise that the plant group has gotten ginormous, way bigger than it was supposed to, and when did this even happen?
Where did all these bucketfuls of java fern come from anyway?
The trident had gotten massive (again), and this time I took all the leaves off and stripped away some of the rhizomes too for good measure. New rhizomes continually grow over the older ones, and they will kill off the older ones given enough time. Leading to the plant creeping out in base size, slowly but surely until your entire tank is just java fern
The Windelow didnt deserve the scissor treatment, in fact it had only just regrown all its leaves since the last buzz cut it got when I installed the bolbitiseses from Darrel.
But I needed to plant the Bolbitis heteroclita cuspidata below it, and it would have shaded the new baby too much. So off with its head again! It will grow back, im not concerned although I do feel a little bit bad about mistreating it so.

My tank is still getting the same ferts from a month ago, which past-Hufsa helpfully laid out for me here. How did she know I would forget!?
Except ive only done one water change in a month 🤭
To be honest, tank doesnt seem to care.
The water eventually turned a bit pink on week three of no water changes, but theres not been any algae blooms, plant protests or anything of the sort.
TDS went up a bit but really not that much, I think I saw 160~ TDS the day before the water change (compared to ~130)
So im tempted to just keep it going like this 🤷‍♀️
Do a water change maybe once every three weeks or monthly.

The plants still dont like that micro mix. So ill be reverting the micro recipe to almost the same as the one before. Im changing the macro a bit too, more K.

Some more plants turned up too, will post pics of them soonventually

Thats all for now 😘

 

[_Maq_]

Has your temperature decreased with the autumn coming?

 

[Hufsa]

Has your temperature decreased with the autumn coming?

Yeah for the most part the temperature is staying where its supposed to. The fan was removed from the tank a while ago and the lid put back on. Evaporation is a lot more manageable now

 

[Hufsa]

Posting this note mainly for my own records 🥴
I dont know when I will be able to make up new ferts, and this has been annoying me somewhat as I know I want to add more potassium at least. The plants are just waiting for me to have the energy for them.
I thought to myself "What would @dw1305 do?" and I went and got my jar of potassium sulphate & a teaspoon, and I bunged in half a teaspoon. (I was going for a whole teaspoon but I got a bit nervous last second)
I have no idea how much I just added but my thinking is that its probably entirely fine and if they are low on potassium then this will definitely improve the mood a bit.

Ill keep an eye on the plants and see if I notice any differences 🙂

 

[_Maq_]

I think we've got good reasons to believe that the amount and frequency of WC can be decreased with lower temperature.

 

[Hufsa]

I bunged in half a teaspoon
I have no idea how much I just added

I plugged the amount into rotala calculator and it looks like I added about 5ppm, which is not that much.
Ill add another whole teaspoon later which should bring us up to +15ppm, a more significant addition. Not accounting for whatever might be in the water column because its been a while since my last WC and it would just be guessing.
Trying to observe itty bitty changes is difficult because you never know if youre observing the result of your change or something else entirely. I wanted to add a fair bit so I could hopefully see a bigger result, which would be slightly more likely to be caused by my bigger change, if that makes sense.

Got a bit of trimming done as well, stemplants never take a break 😁

I think we've got good reasons to believe that the amount and frequency of WC can be decreased with lower temperature.

Can you elaborate on this Maq?
My tank isnt running as hot as it sometimes did in summer (peaking temperatures around 26 a fair bit in the daytime), but its not what I would imagine is a huge significant amount cooler now.
Its sitting somewhere between 23-24, with 23 being the target.

 

[Libba]

How much water are you changing in the monthly water changes?

 

[Hufsa]

How much water are you changing in the monthly water changes?

75% still

 

[_Maq_]

Can you elaborate on this Maq?

It goes with my signature topic - oxygen & organic pollution.
I believe the topmost enemy of planted tanks is organic compounds in the water column. To degrade them completely (not only partially, which is bad), microbes require oxygen. There's more oxygen in cooler water, while all biochemical processes go on slower pace (incl. fish eating less, plants exuding less etc.). As a result, there's less organic matter in the tank and oxygenation=decomposition of organic matter is more perfect.

I'm not heating/cooling my tanks, and heat my place sparingly. Therefore, temperature in my tanks somehow follows the year seasons. Winter is a "sleeping season", plants don't grow much. Spring and autumn are best. Summer, on the other side, is the period of vigorous growth, but also instability. Troubles with "mysterious" melting and die-offs occur mostly during summer. More WC are required and activated carbon gets employed almost permanently.

 

[Hufsa]

How much water are you changing in the monthly water changes?

75% still

Feel free to share any thoughts about this @Libba , my thinking is that a 75% water change would be extra good for getting the water column reset after a longer time of accumulation (of nutrients but also dissolved waste), but of course it also means a slightly larger swing for my livestock. Then again they didnt seem disturbed by this at all.
The TDS swing was only from 160 to 130 or so, so much less than the almost 100 TDS swing they would have seen back when I was dosing full EI in a low tech tank, and that was only over one week.

 

[Libba]

Feel free to share any thoughts about this @Libba , my thinking is that a 75% water change would be extra good for getting the water column reset after a longer time of accumulation (of nutrients but also dissolved waste), but of course it also means a slightly larger swing for my livestock. Then again they didnt seem disturbed by this at all.
The TDS swing was only from 160 to 130 or so, so much less than the almost 100 TDS swing they would have seen back when I was dosing full EI in a low tech tank, and that was only over one week.

I don't have any strong thoughts about it Hufsa! I don't believe in blanket rules that say you should change X amount of water. Every system is unique. You're the one who knows your system the most, and if you find that 75% monthly water changes work best then I don't have any reason to think you're wrong. The "shocked face" reaction is just because I'm a very moderate and fragile person and I find big percentages confronting.

 

[Hufsa]

I don't have any strong thoughts about it Hufsa! I don't believe in blanket rules that say you should change X amount of water. Every system is unique. You're the one who knows your system the most, and if you find that 75% monthly water changes work best then I don't have any to think you're wrong. The "shocked face" reaction is just because I'm a very moderate and fragile person and I find big percentages confronting.

I appreciate your thoughts 😊 I like to hear others input even if its different from what I'm thinking, especially because sometimes I can get stuck in my own line of reasoning and miss important aspects.
I think ill use the shrimp as my guide as they would be the most sensitive to this kind of thing. My otos seem to love water changes and always want to swim in the current from the new water. So if the shrimp continue on as usual then ill know that its most likely ok. And if not then I can adjust as needed

 

[Wookii]

I appreciate your thoughts 😊 I like to hear others input even if its different from what I'm thinking, especially because sometimes I can get stuck in my own line of reasoning and miss important aspects.
I think ill use the shrimp as my guide as they would be the most sensitive to this kind of thing. My otos seem to love water changes and always want to swim in the current from the new water. So if the shrimp continue on as usual then ill know that its most likely ok. And if not then I can adjust as needed

How are your Caridina shrimp getting on - have they had any babies yet? I have had several failed attempts to breed some in my tanks - excluding the Tangerine Tigers I now have which appear to be breeding like rabbits on Viagra.

 

[Hufsa]

How are your Caridina shrimp getting on - have they had any babies yet? I have had several failed attempts to breed some in my tanks - excluding the Tangerine Tigers I now have which appear to be breeding like rabbits on Viagra.

Ive seen a couple of them berried but havent spotted any Caridina shrimplets yet, I had the distinct feeling that one of the mamas would have already released her first brood by now, so I am a little bit puzzled that I cant spot any babies.
The Neos are multiplying like crazy as usual, but the water values are more in their wheelhouse than for the Caridina.
I wonder if the shrimplets did not survive release, or maybe they're just hiding well, I cant really tell. Only long term results will shed light I think in a tank that has so many hiding spots.
My gut feeling says that the KH and GH is very much on the borderline of what the Caridina find ok.
The GH I could lower easily, the KH maybe not so much, as you have seen by my other thread.
I have several safety concerns that I need clear answers to regarding that, but I would rather cause a small stir on the forum and ask the questions first rather than just going out on my own and potentially doing something very dangerous. Im rather attached to my skin and prefer to keep all of it attached to me 😁

Im very interested in those Tangerine Tigers, they are not super common here but I think I could source some if I wanted to. Just to refresh my memory, what KH and GH are your tanks running at Wookii?

 

[Wookii]

Im very interested in those Tangerine Tigers, they are not super common here but I think I could source some if I wanted to. Just to refresh my memory, what KH and GH are your tanks running at Wookii?

I've put them in two tanks. One is a my new QT tank which is running KH0 / GH3-4 - in this tank they have bred like crazy - there are babies everywhere, and numerous adults buried. I also have them in my 'farm' tank which runs on tap water - so around 6-8dKH and 11-12dGH - they haven't done very well in there though, I haven't seen any breeding activities, and less adults than I added (though they aren't always the easiest to spot against a sand substrate). The farm tank is CO2 injected though (although at a lower level than typical), which may also be a factor.