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Clear suction cups turn white

Just to further explain why I am interested in these...

So, I inject air into all of my low tech tanks via fine bubble air stones. The best I have found are the Aquario Neo Diffuser Air. They nicely made, small in footprint, come with good quality suction cups, and produce a fine mist. But, the problem is they are still pretty noisy in my living room(especially because my multiple tank syndrome has resulted in 4 aquariums in my living room lol). So, I have been debating trying an inline CO2 Diffuser instead to see if it would quiet things down any. I would mount it just like the High Tech folks do right in between my canister outlets and the outlet pipe. That way, in theory, it would blow the fine bubbles into the water column so they slowly and unevenly break at the surface instead of all breaking at once making a lot of noise like a standard in tank diffuser.

What do you guys think? Anyone tied this and achieved my desired outcome? Thanks👍.
 
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hypnogogia said:
Not sure an air pump would produce the pressure needed for an inline CO2 Diffuser to work successfully.
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Why would a ceramic disc work any differently inline vs in tank? I have a huge ceramic disc in one of my tanks and it pumps a ton of bubbles off of a tiny 3 watt air pump(turned down to about 20% output) that supplies 3 tanks at once(the other 2 tanks have Aquario Neo ceramic diffusers as well).

Is there something special about the ceramic diffusers in the inline diffuser styles I posted, that makes them require higher psi then normal, that I am not aware of? I have never owned this style of inline diffuser, nor tried CO2.
 
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FISHnLAB said:
Is there something special about the ceramic diffusers in the inline diffuser styles I posted, that makes them require higher psi then normal, that I am not aware of? I have never owned this style of inline diffuser, nor tried CO2.
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I don’t know, but most inline CO2 diffusers that I have come across require a pressure of between 20 and 30psi.
 
MichaelJ said:
Being a contrarian by breed, I am just trying to figure out if anyone actually provided an answer to the OP's question to why suction cups turns white?

Cheers,
Michael
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The suction cups absorbs water, afaik, and thus become opaque. That’s why @zozo suggested to dry them out.
 
MichaelJ said:
Being a contrarian by breed, I am just trying to figure out if anyone actually provided an answer to the OP's question to why suction cups turns white?

Cheers,
Michael
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The suction cups are made from Soft PVC same as the transparent air hose we use that has the same issue when submerged for a period of time.

The in-depth explanation is:

The hose or suction cups you were using were transparent until yesterday? And today it is a cloudy white. Can you still use it? The answer is yes. During hot and humid months, transparent soft vinyl chloride can become cloudy white, which looks something similar to frosted glass.

The loss in transparency seen in soft vinyl chloride is particularly common in the oil-resistant type.

Vinyl chloride products are made with a plasticizer to make it soft. Typically, there is no room for the fluid to move between the molecules of vinyl chloride and plasticizer molecules to get into the hose material, but when the humidity rises and water evaporates, the molecules are small enough to get in. If the temperature rises further, the bonds between the vinyl chloride and plasticizer molecules begin to weaken, making it even easier for water molecules to enter.

Then, the reflection of light striking the water molecules embedded in the material gives it a cloudy appearance. The compounding ingredient used in the oil-resistant type has large molecules, making it more susceptible to this phenomenon.

Because water molecules do not bond with the other molecules, the effect is temporary. When the humidity drops, the water molecules will be pulled back out, and they will return to their transparent state without any effect on the quality.

So warm and humid is already enough, being (warm and) submerged is more than enough.
🙂
 
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Hi all,
FISHnLAB said:
But, the problem is they are still pretty noisy in my living room(especially because my multiple tank syndrome has resulted in 4 aquariums in my living room lol). So, I have been debating trying an inline CO2 Diffuser instead to see if it would quiet things down any.
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You can hear the venturi bubbles, but I'd say it is probably 1/10 of the noise you would get with an air pump. The filter is an Eheim 2224 and it is on the work-top behind the aquarium, not below it. It is the <"tank and Eheim venturi"> from earlier in the thread.

Apologies for the quality of the images, but they give you a bit of an idea about bubble size and velocity. I've managed to take a picture without the venturi in it, but it is immediately to the left of the photo.

Venturi_bubbles2023.jpg
Venturi_bubbles2023a.jpg

cheers Darrel
 
hypnogogia said:
I don’t know, but most inline CO2 diffusers that I have come across require a pressure of between 20 and 30psi.
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Yes, but isn't that just the suggested working pressure with CO2 for any accessories? Why would that be the same when injecting air which is a completely different gas and application? Why would you need such high pressure when ceramic air stones work fine at much lower pressure and use the same type of diffuser but, not in an inline housing?

This got me thinking about what kind of pressure we are looking at with an air pump/air stone setup. So, I got out my tools and measured it for anyone interested...

Equipment:

Pressure Gauge - Ashcroft 0-60psi Dial Pressure Gauge(US Made)
Air Pump - Pawfly MA-60(2W/151lph)
Air Stone - Pawfly 0.6mm regular air stone

Setup:

Gauge was mounted inline with air stone running at its standard setting.

I measured approximately 4.75psi working pressure...
20230115_150125.jpg
20230115_144650.jpg
20230115_150440.jpg
I guess the easiest way to tell if an inline CO2 diffuser will work off of an air pump is to buy one and test it. Unfortunately I have way too much on the go right now with 4 tanks and a new one started a few days ago. But, I will likely buy one in the future to test. If I do I will start a thread about it...

For the time being though, if any of you high tech guys want to shut off your CO2 for a few minutes and shove an air pump on the inlet of their inline CO2 diffuser to see what happens feel free to post the results...
 
Aqua sobriquet said:
I’m guessing this is much higher than you get with an ordinary aquarium air pump then.
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I just tested it. See above.

It looks like a very small 2watt air pumps working pressure is about 4-6 times less then the suggested 20-30psi referenced for an average inline CO2 diffuser. That said, I don't see why comparing apples to oranges means much...
 
MichaelJ said:
Being a contrarian by breed, I am just trying to figure out if anyone actually provided an answer to the OP's question to why suction cups turns white?

Cheers,
Michael
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Yes, sorry for the derail OP.

It looks like your question has been answered now though.

Let me know if you mind the derail OP and if so I will ask to have the parts on venturis and inline diffusers moved to their own thread👍.
 
dw1305 said:
Hi all,

You can hear the venturi bubbles, but I'd say it is probably 1/10 of the noise you would get with an air pump. The filter is an Eheim 2224 and it is on the work-top behind the aquarium, not below it. It is the <"tank and Eheim venturi"> from earlier in the thread.
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Ok, that's good to know, thanks👍.
dw1305 said:
Apologies for the quality of the images, but they give you a bit of an idea about bubble size and velocity. I've managed to take a picture without the venturi in it, but it is immediately to the left of the photo.

View attachment 199858
View attachment 199859

cheers Darrel
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Yes, thank you again, that helps.

I don't think it will work for my application unfortunately as I need something to inject air in between my canister and spray bar so that the bubbles spray out the spray bar. For now I'm just going to deal as my tanks are running well but, I sure would like to quiet the bubbling down. The bubbles breaking are way, way louder then the air pump or all canisters combined. One day when I have more free time I will revisit this issue...
 
FISHnLAB said:
parts on venturis and inline diffusers moved to their own thread
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Both topics are excellent conversations. I would just think that they would benefit more people and generate more conversation if they would be in separate threads under more catchy titles than this one about suction cups 😉

We are all guilty of derailing threads from time to time - very hard to avoid and draw the line with tangential questions and comments. Its often only in hindsight we realize we should have started a new thread 🙂

Cheers,
Michael
 
FISHnLAB said:
I measured approximately 4.75psi working pressure...
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that pressure doesn’t work on my in line.
FISHnLAB said:
That said, I don't see why comparing apples to oranges means much...
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as in O2 molecules vs CO2 molecules?
Have you considered that the ceramic disk in an in line CO2 Diffusor is different than your ceramic air stone?
 
hypnogogia said:
that pressure doesn’t work on my in line.
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With air? What type of diffuser?

This air pump I tested with is a super cheap 2watt off of Amazon, I'm guessing higher PSI could easily be achieved with other pumps. That said, I'm more wondering if there is an inline diffuser design that would work on lower PSI like this cheap air pump...
hypnogogia said:
as in O2 molecules vs CO2 molecules?
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Yep, I was more pointing out that just because something is recommended for one application doesn't mean it will work the same for another.
hypnogogia said:
Have you considered that the ceramic disk in an in line CO2 Diffusor is different than your ceramic air stone?
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Definitely. But, there are many different inline diffuser designs and there is only so many things that can be different about ceramic discs(thickness, porosity, etc). My real question though is if one of them would work for my desired application...
 
All my translucent suction cups turn white after a few days being submerged. Same happens to any hose that is submerged (Aquael, Eheim etc). They also become stiffer as well. The only ones that seem to maintain their plasticity are the black suction cups made by eheim. They become a greyish color when submersed as well. My conclusion is that this is due to the type of plastic used.
 
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