• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up
  • You can now follow UKAPS on Instagram.

Black Spots on leaves

ceg4048

Expert/Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
11 Jul 2007
Messages
9,598
Location
Chicago, USA
The colours you get on your pictures is amazing. Do you use any editing software or a certain camera?
Hi Chris,
To get the colors that you're actually seeing through your brain's filters it's normally best to use the DSLR's Custom White Balance function. It's on most Nikons, but I'm sure it's on other brands too. Color balance is all about telling the camera what "white" or "grey" is. To get a CWB it's a matter of holding an "official" white object under those lights and selecting AWB. The camera then figures out what it takes to reproduce the object color cast as "white" and then applies those settings to subsequent shots. It's just a calibration curve. I go one step further and submerge the white card in the tank and then point the camera through the glass, as the glass usually has a color cast as well. This can be done without a DSLR in Photoshop as well, and probably other software also, as long as there is a white object in the tank under the water. This has to be done every time there is a bulb type change (or with LEDs every time the color settings are changed.

Have a look at the photos in my post #62 above. I just used my phone and didn't bother to do any of that calibration. Can you see how much blue there is in that color cast? Those lights are intentionally deep in the blue channel. I love using blue, but it's not photo friendly. Here is a photo where I did the Custom White Balance using a submerged A4 size Xerox printer sheet of paper to get the CWB using the same color channel combination as in those photos above. The color cast is erased. Just a piece of printer paper. Imagine that.

Allow me a short rant:
Did you know the whole world is blue? If our brain had as much sensitivity to blue as it does to green that's what we would see - all the time in daylight. Isn't that ghastly? But that's how plants see the world. Our only clue is that the sky and ocean are blue. Our brain specifically filters out most of the blue so we're spared the agony of enduring a lifetime of a blue Hell on Earth.
There are actually hobbyists fresh from The Matrix trying to convince us that blue is bad because it somehow shrinks plants, or causes algae. Isn't that absurd? I wish blue did shrink plants. That would save me a LOT of time pruning and pulling the bucketloads of plant mass I've been forced to jettison from the tank every couple of weeks to keep it from choking.
15834671864_2613156e30_c.jpg

Typically, as this tank stabilizes my other tank, non planted with Malawi in (Chindongo Saulosi), similar to what George has done with his is suffering with brown algae. At first I thought it was diatoms, the tank is now 3-4 months old and certainly isn't improving. If anything getting worse. I have dropped the light to 6 hours during the week then 8 at the weekend. Only on a stock Fluval light, running a 1600lph power head and fluval 307 (tank is 125l).
It's a tough problem to solve. Algae are not just robots. They behave differently in a tank without plants versus a tank with plants. That's why the results/conclusions of some experiments done in a petrie dish don't carry over to a planted tank. A long term blackout is the only idea I can come up with.

Cheers,
 

Cd2021

Member
Thread starter
Joined
20 Feb 2021
Messages
79
Location
Hampshire
Hi Ceg,

What were your thoughts on the Lewis and Max "Incident"?

You do never cease to amaze me with the detail and thought that you put into everything. Unfortunately i don't own a DSLR camera, so i just play with the editing part of my iphone 12 pro. Some of the pictures i get are pretty good. But not to the level that you do.

I become a bit lapsed with checking the co2 etc, and have seen a bit of BBA appear in the tank at present. Mainly on the glass out outlets, the odd older leaf but nothing that is healthy.

Yeah that's understandable. Seems to be diatoms, but the tank is a bit old now. Was debating a rescape drop the hardscape level a bit and add some greenary. But would be low tech epiphytes only.

Thanks
Chris
 

ceg4048

Expert/Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
11 Jul 2007
Messages
9,598
Location
Chicago, USA
Hi Chris,
Yeah, as much of a Hamilton fanboi I am, I've got to say that it seem to be mostly his fault as he was barreling down the inside and didn't use the space Max actually gave him. I get it though. It's a difficult circuit to recover from being behind so Lewis was being super aggressive. It was so early in the race and the cars were heavy, so of course the car understeered at the apex and took out Max. I can't see how any blame could be given to Max and I thought the 10 second penalty was super forgiving, quite frankly. It's difficult to be objective when you guy comes out on top. I'm just glad Max wasn't injured too badly.

Yeah CO2 is a constant walk on a tightrope. If it's on hardscape then it is being forgiving, so you just have to live with that and remove immediately.

Iphones take nice quality photos, but as you say, you have to do the color balance in post, and it's tough to nail it completely. I reckon color is actually more important than sharpness or resolution.

Cheers,
 

Cd2021

Member
Thread starter
Joined
20 Feb 2021
Messages
79
Location
Hampshire
Hi Ceg,

I think, this may be the first time i would have to disagree with out but the who f1 world seems very split. I personally think racing incident especially for the reasons you mentioned, how given Max's driving before the crash and Silverstone, putting Lewis over the curb in France and Imola unfortunately he deserved this one. Red Bull handled it terrible, as with the meme's of Karen Horner. I'm really happy how the teams, FIA have all jumped and been extremely strong against the racism that unfortunately Lewis received. I cant' say i saw the comments, but lots of comments on Instagram ripping into him and clown emoji's.

I've removed all the bits i could see. Weightly most of it was on the back of the tank, hard to see initially with the black background. Checked and adjusted my Co2 on Sunday and PH seems to be about right.

Yes agreed, just another part of the hobby to try and master. Any plans on tanks/ moving for you. I'm really interested to see your setup once your back up and running.

Thanks
Chris
 

ceg4048

Expert/Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
11 Jul 2007
Messages
9,598
Location
Chicago, USA
Hi Chris,
Yes, it's really difficult to understand all the stupidity surrounding this. Is it any wonder why there are and have been so many wars on Earth? I'm always wondering whether there is any limit to human stupidity - and the answer appears to be..."no". :hungover:

Anyway it will be quite some time before I'm up and running again. Packing, moving, setting up house and so forth will not happen quickly. I too am looking forward to the time when I can get the tank going....

CO2 is always problematic because the environment is always changing. As plants grow, for example their totl body mass increases and the mass must be fed, so tanks become victims of their own success. There will always be a need for minor adjustments here or there. As long as you accept that truth then you cannot be surprised. This is the reason many folks decide to go low tech.

Cheers,
 

Cd2021

Member
Thread starter
Joined
20 Feb 2021
Messages
79
Location
Hampshire
Hi Ceg,

Been a long time since I have responded. I completely agree, seems a lot of hate for Lewis at the moment given the booing at the last race! Fair lay to Johnny Herbert stopping it.

Ah that sucks, but totally understantable, really want to see a period of one of your tanks then potentially learn off of it.

I seem to be in a bit of a stagnant situation. Plant growth seems to be okay, but nothing amazing certain plants doing amazing crypts, rotala etc. But certainly not getting the amazing colours that you see in image, but again how much of that do you believe with edited pictures now days. Must be said i have had issues getting co2 bottles without spending like £50 for 2kg, so has been without for about 1 1/2 weeks.

I think my next step needs to me match the co2 to lighting and up a little to speed up some growth to the potential of my current scape. Then back end of the year a complete rescape with what i've learnt from you and George Farmers book.

Many Thanks Chris
 

John q

Member
Joined
6 Jan 2021
Messages
1,225
Location
Lancashire

ceg4048

Expert/Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
11 Jul 2007
Messages
9,598
Location
Chicago, USA
I seem to be in a bit of a stagnant situation. Plant growth seems to be okay, but nothing amazing certain plants doing amazing crypts, rotala etc. But certainly not getting the amazing colours that you see in image, but again how much of that do you believe with edited pictures now days.
Hi Chris,
Yes, it's as you say. regarding the colors. I'm not one to chase colors. I just feed the plants, get CO2 as good as I can and sometimes I get lucky colors, other times not. It's better to buy plants that genetically have great colors and just carry on from there.
If you think the plants have enough maturity to handle more light then give it a try. Since you have a much better understanding now of cause and effect you can experiment and will know which turn to take if the road gets bumpy.

Cheers,
 

Cd2021

Member
Thread starter
Joined
20 Feb 2021
Messages
79
Location
Hampshire
Hi Ceg,

Just thought i'd pop a message as haven't been on the forum much recently. Purchased a few plants and bits and read a few of your posts here and there.

Seem to be getting the hang of this a lot more now, although my co2 is not been consistent ever and having to check this daily. Looking into more i think this is where it was single stage and ran pressures really high (60+PSI) Therefore for my 30th in October my friends clubbed together and purchased me a co2 art dual stage regulator, which I setup a couple of days ago and have consistent matching bubble counters, magic!

I've also purchased a custom tank from OA aquaria, same size as an Aquascaper 900, which is going to be planted and my Chindongo Saulosi will be rehome to my Oakstyle 230 which i think i will do some epiphytes in. I massively underestimated their size, and shouldn't have taken advise from the fish shop.

How you keeping? Got your tanks setup yet?

Thanks Chris
 

Cd2021

Member
Thread starter
Joined
20 Feb 2021
Messages
79
Location
Hampshire
Just an update, since changing over the co2 regulator, i removed the splitter as i believe this was the issue with the inconsistent co2. And possibly leaking.

I run 2x spray bars across the back of my tank (Oakstyle 230), and now only co2 coming out of one side and not circulating around the tank very well at all. I am thinking of using in inlet cut up to extend the spray bar and position both towards the middle of the tank. Or run them on opposite sides of the tank facing towards the middle.

let me know your thoughts.

Thanks
Chris
 

ceg4048

Expert/Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
11 Jul 2007
Messages
9,598
Location
Chicago, USA
Just an update, since changing over the co2 regulator, i removed the splitter as i believe this was the issue with the inconsistent co2. And possibly leaking.

I run 2x spray bars across the back of my tank (Oakstyle 230), and now only co2 coming out of one side and not circulating around the tank very well at all. I am thinking of using in inlet cut up to extend the spray bar and position both towards the middle of the tank. Or run them on opposite sides of the tank facing towards the middle.

let me know your thoughts.

Hi Chris,
As we discussed earlier, it's not really a good idea to point filter outlets at opposing directions. This normally leads to cancellation of flow. Splitters are always a potential problem because the two filter outlets always have slightly different back pressures, so the gas fids the path of least resistance. That's also assuming the splitter is of high enough quality to not have internal leakage and so forth. Is the splitter a good quality brass or steel, or is it a lesser plastic variety? Maybe move the bar that has the gas a little lower or find a good way to equalize the resistance between the two circuits? I've never found a satisfactory solution to splitters.

Cheers,
 

Cd2021

Member
Thread starter
Joined
20 Feb 2021
Messages
79
Location
Hampshire
Hi Ceg,

How's it going? Whos your money of for the f1 title?

The splitter was Metal (steel aluminium i believe seemed quote soft) from Co2 supermarket, so i'd like to think relatively good quality. However remained inconsistent and lead to leaks etc therefore has been removed and i'm running 1 inline diffuser (left filter). At first was very much one side lots of co2 and minimal on the otherside. That's why i was a little unsure. At present i have them on either end of the tank facing each other; I can see a lot better dispersion of the gas across the whole tank, but can see that it's not optimal in the way of flow.

I do have some spare oase inlet pipe so could cut this in half and plan to get the spray bars on top of each other towards the middle of the tank. What do you think?

Thanks Chris
 

ceg4048

Expert/Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
11 Jul 2007
Messages
9,598
Location
Chicago, USA
Hi Ceg,

How's it going? Whos your money of for the f1 title?

The splitter was Metal (steel aluminium i believe seemed quote soft) from Co2 supermarket, so i'd like to think relatively good quality. However remained inconsistent and lead to leaks etc therefore has been removed and i'm running 1 inline diffuser (left filter). At first was very much one side lots of co2 and minimal on the otherside. That's why i was a little unsure. At present i have them on either end of the tank facing each other; I can see a lot better dispersion of the gas across the whole tank, but can see that it's not optimal in the way of flow.

I do have some spare oase inlet pipe so could cut this in half and plan to get the spray bars on top of each other towards the middle of the tank. What do you think?
Hi Chris,
Yeah, Lewis ran a heck of a race down in Brazil and Mercedes seem to have the faster car. Max's lead, while not insurmountable, seems a tall order with only a couple of races remaining. I don't think Lewis can pull it off but I'd be happy to have him prove me wrong. :)

Sure, stacking them might work. There are just so many variables that it's difficult to predict and so is worth a try. If they are stacked and are in the same location then it doesn't matter if only one bar has the gas. The flow from both will be headed in the same direction, so there are no downsides to this approach.

Cheers,
 

Cd2021

Member
Thread starter
Joined
20 Feb 2021
Messages
79
Location
Hampshire
Hi Ceg,

Yes agreed, the new engine in the back of that thing is a rocket ship. Until the race today I fully agreed with you. I think Lewis will win the next race and they’ll go to Abu Dhabi level or max 1 point ahead then max wipe Lewis out. His driving in Brazil was terrible!

Please find video below of my flow setup, what do you think?

Rimless and braceless would’ve definitely been a better option when I purchased this tank.
The co2 seems to dispersing better on the tank now. Unfortunately noticed more bba on the hard scape.

Do you have any of your tanks setup yet?

Thanks
Chris
 

Sdogg

Member
Joined
16 Jan 2021
Messages
41
Location
Hampshire
As we discussed earlier, it's not really a good idea to point filter outlets at opposing directions. This normally leads to cancellation of flow.
I recently saw a George Farmer video where he was at aquarium gardens. They had a tank with 2 lily outlets in opposite diagonal corners facing in opposite directions to create a vortex or circular flow all around the tank. They called it "gyre" effect.

Would you say this is bogus?
 

Cd2021

Member
Thread starter
Joined
20 Feb 2021
Messages
79
Location
Hampshire
Hi Sdogg,

The plan is to build a constant flow, back to front, straight down the front then to the back of the tank. Ceg has gone into quite a bit of detail about it in the thread. I know others do this and it works well, but unfortunately on my oakstyle 230 it’s not possible due to the rim. I only have to entrance points, either side at the back.

Thanks
Chris
 

Nick potts

Member
Joined
25 Sep 2014
Messages
956
Location
Torbay
I recently saw a George Farmer video where he was at aquarium gardens. They had a tank with 2 lily outlets in opposite diagonal corners facing in opposite directions to create a vortex or circular flow all around the tank. They called it "gyre" effect.

Would you say this is bogus?

Not bogus as such, just not a very good gyre :)

What they are trying to do is have the flows complement each other, the left-hand filter pushes the water rights and the right filter is meant to then help it along and push to back round in a circle, it rarely works this well though, hardscape, plants and tank walls get in the way.
 

Angus

Member
Joined
29 Aug 2008
Messages
654
Location
Vauxhall, London.
I recently saw a George Farmer video where he was at aquarium gardens. They had a tank with 2 lily outlets in opposite diagonal corners facing in opposite directions to create a vortex or circular flow all around the tank. They called it "gyre" effect.

Would you say this is bogus?
I'd say it was more a "whirlpool" effect than a gyre effect in most practical cases and reef tanks.

Gyres are powered by wind and the coriolis effect, whereas the kind of flows these setups with filter outlets and powerheads mimic are more like trapped water or deflection in freshwater, you can achieve a true turning gyre, but you need the specific reef units for the purpose and it can lead to excess friction between the water and substrate and shift your aquascaping aswell, not such a problem with glued in live rock.
 

Cd2021

Member
Thread starter
Joined
20 Feb 2021
Messages
79
Location
Hampshire
Yes as Nick says and where getting optimum spread of co2 throughout the tank.

Previously run a splitter, but was too inconsistent. Wasn’t sure if was the regulator or splitter. So now running a co2 art pro se, solely through the left filter through an inline diffuser.

Thanks
Chris
 

ceg4048

Expert/Global Moderator
UKAPS Team
Joined
11 Jul 2007
Messages
9,598
Location
Chicago, USA
I recently saw a George Farmer video where he was at aquarium gardens. They had a tank with 2 lily outlets in opposite diagonal corners facing in opposite directions to create a vortex or circular flow all around the tank. They called it "gyre" effect.

Would you say this is bogus?
Hi Sdogg,
Well, pointing flows in opposite directions is not ideal. Hobbyists try to play ping pong with water all the time and this just isn't fun because water refuses to play. Having said that, in some tanks, due to the placement of objects in the tank, such as hardscape or plant groupings it is necessary to experiment with configurations that deviate from the ideal placement of having all outlets facing the same direction. Because the objects in the tank can deflect the flow, it can be necessary to re-orient the outlets in order to obtain the best flow patterns. There are, in fact, excellent examples of the so-called "whirlpool" configuration, but generally, one should endeavor to use the baseline configuration as a starting point and then adjust or experiment as needed.

Cheers,
 
Top