3000 Liter High Tech Planted Tank

[Andy Pierce]

The sump needs to be not open to the air but otherwise won't need special treatment. You can open the lid for feeding and maintenance - we similarly can and do open the door of the tissue culture incubator. The loss of CO2 in air is quickly replaced once the door is closed and because equilibrium with liquid is slow and you have a lot of water you won't change the water CO2 noticeably during lid-off activities.

 

[oreo57]

After some thinking I am probably going to stick with the CO2 design in the diagram just to keep things simpler. I will use Zeus method if I feel it is taking an unreasonable amount of time to reach the pH drop or once I fine tune the current design and feel comfortable with it.

Actually came here from reef2reef.
I wanted to comment regarding your lighting and it is probably more appropriate here than there.
First your choice of 4 Chihiros 90's
That would be 440 watts @ $1800US.
For a " normal" tank that wattage would be less than desirable.

May want to price Orphek Amazonias for this tank.
Orphek Amazonas 960/ 500 / 320 Watt LED Systems •Orphek

Or other more " focused" lighting.

 

[RickyV]

Actually came here from reef2reef.
I wanted to comment regarding your lighting and it is probably more appropriate here than there.
First your choice of 4 Chihiros 90's
That would be 440 watts @ $1800US.
For a " normal" tank that wattage would be less than desirable.

May want to price Orphek Amazonias for this tank.
Orphek Amazonas 960/ 500 / 320 Watt LED Systems •Orphek

Or other more " focused" lighting.

I decided I would go with either 6 chihiros wrgb 90 pros or 6 chihiros rgb vivid ii 10th edition, probably the vivid since they have 130W each. You don't think even 6 of the vivids would be sufficient? I could possibly get 8.
Those Orpheks look promising I'll look into them I've never seen them before but they pack a lot of power it seems.
I just have the chihiros on my home tank and I love the colors they give.

 

[oreo57]

They were a lot cheaper when at best you just had global dimming.
They do customize if one wanted a simple RGB panel.

Thing is with them if you have the height and pick the right lens one smooths out the par gradient.
Think of it this way.... If one has 120 degree lights a few inches off the water by the time you get to the 2-4ft substrate your distance is >2x ( say 4x for argument) your surface reading.
Say 800 par goes to 200.

If you have 3ft tall lights that are focused to the surface ( little light spill) and have 800 par your 2-4ft depth is only 2x ( ave 3ft depth) distance 400 par.

Btw neither linear nor inverse square law holds but linear is closer in many " ranges".
Used linear above.
Part of the punch with 90 or less lenses .

At least as I see it.
Kessil has a narrow lens add on but you probably would not be happy with the color .

On the cheap you could probably find some RGB smart flood or spot ( flood has a different err meaning in architectural lighting) but finding power is an issue.

Way off the beaten path is stage LEDs.
Suggest rgbamber types if one ventures in that direction.

 

[RickyV]

They were a lot cheaper when at best you just had global dimming.
They do customize if one wanted a simple RGB panel.

Thing is with them if you have the height and pick the right lens one smooths out the par gradient.
Think of it this way.... If one has 120 degree lights a few inches off the water by the time you get to the 2-4ft substrate your distance is >2x ( say 4x for argument) your surface reading.
Say 800 par goes to 200.

If you have 3ft tall lights that are focused to the surface ( little light spill) and have 800 par your 2-4ft depth is only 2x ( ave 3ft depth) distance 400 par.

Btw neither linear nor inverse square law holds but linear is closer in many " ranges".
Used linear above.
Part of the punch with 90 or less lenses .

At least as I see it.
Kessil has a narrow lens add on but you probably would not be happy with the color .

On the cheap you could probably find some RGB smart flood or spot ( flood has a different err meaning in architectural lighting) but finding power is an issue.

Way off the beaten path is stage LEDs.
Suggest rgbamber types if one ventures in that direction.

Thank you for your insights oreo! I sent orphek an email to see what they suggest and get an estimate of cost.

 

[oreo57]

Thank you for your insights oreo! I sent orphek an email to see what they suggest and get an estimate of cost.

Just so you don't have sticker shock..this was an old price of the 960's
Last I remember seeing the price was at around $1100US.

If you’re looking to nab one of these, they’ll run around $899 and can be custom ordered.

Orphek Amazonas 960 is yet another new model | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Orphek has been jamming out new models of late and the Orphek Amazonas 960 is the newest model in its lineup. Following along the four multi-LED format we saw in the Orphek Amazonas 320…

reefbuilders.com

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

On the cheap you could probably find some RGB smart flood or spot ( flood has a different err meaning in architectural lighting) but finding power is an issue.

I'd definitely look at "High bay warehouse" lighting.

cheers Darrel

 

[oreo57]

Hi all,

I'd definitely look at "High bay warehouse" lighting.

cheers Darrel

Except they are used to the punchy RGB Chihiros. There are no " only white" LEDs that emulate that look. Even extreme CRI (95+) won't match it. Will look really good ( natural) but not the same.
2 canned Orpheks.
The lesser models used to be only 0-10v dimmable and no channels. Not sure as of today

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Except they are used to the punchy RGB Chihiros. There are no " only white" LEDs that emulate that look.

I understand, but I combine <"no sense of aesthetics"> and a <"pretty thin bank balance">.

cheers Darrel

 

[oreo57]

Hi all,

I understand, but I combine no sense of aesthetics and a pretty thin bank balance.

cheers Darrel

Well not rgbamber nor good for a 3000L tank but useable..Most are about 120 degrees and real wattage can be questionable.

https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...&prds=prmr:1,rsk:pC_11986081925096610511,cs:1

 

[RickyV]

Just so you don't have sticker shock..this was an old price of the 960's
Last I remember seeing the price was at around $1100US.

Oh that may possibly be above my budget, but Ill have to find out for sure. Im just really curious what the amazonas look like in a planted tank as I see them being used mostly in marine settings.

Well not rgbamber nor good for a 3000L tank but useable..Most are about 120 degrees and real wattage can be questionable.

I tried some RGB flood lights before, not those exact ones, but I found them to be too purple looking. That's why I ended up going with the Chihiro's.

I found this PAR data chihiros shared on their Facebook. 280 par at 50 cm and 150 at 70 cm. This is also from the old vivid II, the 10th edition has 12200 lumens, while the old one has 7700 lumens. Though I don't know if the increased lumens translates to an increase in par. I honestly probably only need 50 - 100 par, at the substrate, it seems that would put me in the medium lighting category for planted tanks according to the 2hr aquarist.

These lights from week aqua look interesting as well, WEEK AQUA T90 PRO APP RGB-UV 90W Though I cant find any par data on them. I imagine they would be better at penetrating the deeper tank since they are more focused and they are also RGB. I wonder if they would have shimmer being in this design?

 

[RickyV]

May want to price Orphek Amazonias for this tank.
Orphek Amazonas 960/ 500 / 320 Watt LED Systems •Orphek

Orphek just responded to my email, and they recommended either 3 amazonas 320 or 960 which are the same unit but the 960 have the 4 ch controller with icon system. The 960s cost 800 each and the 320s 585 each. The 3 960s are cheaper than the 6 chihiros vivids and much more powerful. I would be getting 150 par at the bottom of the tank. This looks like a better deal than the chihiros, however I wish I could see some pictures of what tanks look like under them. It says on the site they are direct replacements for metal halides.

The big planted tank florestas submersas uses metal halides. Do you think the lights would look similar to this tank? Its not as punchy as the Chihiro's but it still looks really nice and natural.


Edit: I just found a picture in this article of a tank under the orphek atlantik planted. Atlantik V4 planted freshwater Aquariums LED Light • Orphek Reef Aquarium LED Lighting Not a big fan of how these look. A little too yellow.

 

[oreo57]

Orphek just responded to my email, and they recommended either 3 amazonas 320 or 960 which are the same unit but the 960 have the 4 ch controller with icon system. The 960s cost 800 each and the 320s 585 each. The 3 960s are cheaper than the 6 chihiros vivids and much more powerful. I would be getting 150 par at the bottom of the tank. This looks like a better deal than the chihiros, however I wish I could see some pictures of what tanks look like under them. It says on the site they are direct replacements for metal halides.

The big planted tank florestas submersas uses metal halides. Do you think the lights would look similar to this tank? Its not as punchy as the Chihiro's but it still looks really nice and natural.


Edit: I just found a picture in this article of a tank under the orphek atlantik planted. Atlantik V4 planted freshwater Aquariums LED Light • Orphek Reef Aquarium LED Lighting Not a big fan of how these look. A little too yellow.
View attachment 206564

First 3 is 960 total watts. They think you have a reef tank???.
I know left to right is a stretch though but you have a lot of rock work. right?

Did they state 3 because of that or light levels or both?
🙂
Keep in mind the 960's are color tunable.
Also you can request any pattern you like.

If you don't like yellow just don't include white LEDs

 

[oreo57]

This was a custom pattern for popbloom lights I designed for someone. It does have whites.

As to Orphek off the top of my head I would change most if not all 5000k to 7000k and also add more 655 red.
UV and violets are debatable as to any necessity.
Need channel breakdowns to see how they divided the diodes up.

 

[RickyV]

First 3 is 960 total watts. They think you have a reef tank???.
I know left to right is a stretch though but you have a lot of rock work. right?

They are aware it is a planted tank. They suggested specifically
Led 1 6000k xp
Led 2 6000k normal
Led 3 6000k normal
Led 4 xp red
Yeah with the right rock structure it takes away close to two feet, I guess they suggested three to have ensure very even coverage and high par? So I guess I could possibly make all of the lights 6000k xp LEDS and not use any 6000k normal LEDs.

 

[oreo57]

That is a horrible pattern based on "your" likes.
Orphek's bread and butter is reff/sea lighting. As to terrestrial/freshwater they took the path of least resistance with 2 "normal" whites.
I'm not saying I "know better" than them but they aren't taking your likes totally into account nor encouraging you to "customize" it..

That little puck I built above with 660nm red, royal blue, cyan, pcamber, and lime can "do" any shade that is appealling really.. Well bit of an exaggeration.

 

[RickyV]

That is a horrible pattern based on "your" likes.
Orphek's bread and butter is reff/sea lighting. As to terrestrial/freshwater they took the path of least resistance with 2 "normal" whites.
I'm not saying I "know better" than them but they aren't taking your likes totally into account nor encouraging you to "customize" it..

I see. Yeah I was trying to tell them that I really like the colors under the chihiros/RGB lights but that I needed more power. The XPs look like they have a lot of blue and red which I like. I think I will have 2 orphek amazonas 960 6000k xp as my second choice lighting if I cannot get the vivids due to budget or other reasons. Originally the "budget" lighting option was 6 fluvals 3.0 but I see now that they would be seriously underpowered.

 

[oreo57]

Your tank is 8ft long almost 4ft wide..
So really 2 4x4 tanks not even considering dead space.
60 degree reflectors and 1M off the water surface gives you about 256 PAR based on their lux tables which since it is lux has its own set of issues..
And I assume they measured in free air. Another complication.
Should push 125 PAR 1 more meter down.

2 icons is all that is necessary for you AFAICT.
3 would be a great but either an unneeded luxury or can be tweaked with a few cheap light bars down the road.

Since you have an open channel atm to them can you ask how much extra for a custom spectrum and what is their current channel configuration . ie. which diodes on what channel?.
I'd appreciate it even if you have or will decide against it.

 

[RickyV]

Your tank is 8ft long almost 4ft wide..
So really 2 4x4 tanks not even considering dead space.
60 degree reflectors and 1M off the water surface gives you about 256 PAR based on their lux tables which since it is lux has its own set of issues..
And I assume they measured in free air. Another complication.
Should push 125 PAR 1 more meter down.

2 icons is all that is necessary for you AFAICT.
3 would be a great but either an unneeded luxury or can be tweaked with a few cheap light bars down the road.

Since you have an open channel atm to you can you ask how much extra for a custom spectrum and what is their current channel configuration . ie. which diodes on what channel.
I'd appreciate it even if you have or will decide against it.

Sure I'll ask them and get back to you. Here is a PAR map they shared with me.

 

[oreo57]

I'll look it over.. A different table from Orphek. Keep in mind unlike a tank which will refract and reflect light from the water and the glass. In free air it just "spills" out.
Free air is more attune to the inv. sq rule (2x distance, 1/4 intensity). A water filled tank is not.