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Yellowing/burning leafs ?

Frenchi

Frenchi

Member
Joined
15 Jan 2014
Messages
671
Location
West Yorkshire
Hi ppl

Some of my java fern leafs have got like brown burn spots with holes in them also some of my plants I have slight yellowing of leafs .. Most of the plants are in great lush condition ... What could it be please

I dose full co2 and standard Ei
It's a 250 litre tank
I'm not suffering algae or very very little
7d413bba0d91cbb89ec552b4d5e8f3d2.jpg

Hope you can point me in the right direction


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I could add a wave maker.. I have 2 external filters one runs the co2 enters the tank via spray bar running along the full length of the tank at the top.. The other comes in from the right with a duck bill on it, again at the top.. Cheers


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Hi all,
sciencefiction said:
it looks like typical potassium deficiency
Click to expand...
I agree with "sciencefiction", assuming they are "pin holes" and the leaves are pale green, it definitely looks like K deficiency on the Hygrophila leaves. I think Hygrophila spp. are particularly prone to this.

With the Java Fern unless they are very old leaves it looks like they've suffered drying damage, I get this sometimes if I leave the plants out of the water too long when I'm changing the water etc.

If they are right up in the full light intensity? it might be Clive's excess "photon torpedo".

cheers Darrel
 
Cheers guys .. I will add a little more potassium and sort a power head/wave maker of some sort


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dw1305 said:
Hi all, I agree with "sciencefiction", assuming they are "pin holes" and the leaves are pale green, it definitely looks like K deficiency on the Hygrophila leaves. I think Hygrophila spp. are particularly prone to this.

With the Java Fern unless they are very old leaves it looks like they've suffered drying damage, I get this sometimes if I leave the plants out of the water too long when I'm changing the water etc.

If they are right up in the full light intensity? it might be Clive's excess "photon torpedo".

cheers Darrel
Click to expand...
Darrel they are pin holes spot on .. And the leaves that's brown on the java are the ones that leave the water during a water change .. So all this adds up .. Must try harder lol ... Thanks for this guys :)


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Frenchi said:
I dose full co2 and standard Ei
Click to expand...
Then it's not likely you are suffering a potassium shortage. No way.
See Tim's response above. This is a CO2 shortage at the location where the symptoms appear, most likely caused by flow/distribution issues.

Cheers,
 
I'll try both options, greater distribution and add a tiny bit more potassium ...


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Hi all,
sciencefiction said:
that automatically means the co2 isn't distributed correctly too if nutrients aren't.
Click to expand...
I'm moderately confident that it is potassium deficiency, but CO2 differs from ions in solution in that it will equilibriate with atmospheric CO2 levels as soon as you stop actively adding it, going from ~30ppm down to ~1ppm, so areas with low flow will receive less CO2 as it will tend to out-gas before the plants can capture it.

The same isn't true for mineral ions, but we know we've added an excess via EI. Ions will remain in solution unless they are:
  • Taken up by plants.
  • Combined into an insoluble compounds.
  • Bound via cation exchange, or
  • Chelated by an organic acid.
We can ignore "combined into insoluble compound", because nearly all potassium compounds are soluble. "Cation exchange" and "chelation" also aren't very likely, because ions with a higher valency (Ca++, Fe+++ etc) are more strongly bound than monovalent cations like K+.

So that only really leaves "taken up by plants", but we would then need a mechanism which interferes with K+ ion uptake, particularly because K+ ions are needed in large amounts (about the same nitrogen (N)).

There is such a mechanism, and it occurs when the levels of divalent cations like Ca++ and Mg++ are very high. This means that in very hard water (high dGH) K+ uptake by plants can be deficient even when K+ ions are available in solution.

So the next question would be "is the water very hard?"

cheers Darrel
 
dw1305 said:
Hi all, I'm moderately confident that it is potassium deficiency, but CO2 differs from ions in solution in that it will equilibriate with atmospheric CO2 levels as soon as you stop actively adding it, going from ~30ppm down to ~1ppm, so areas with low flow will receive less CO2 as it will tend to out-gas before the plants can capture it.

The same isn't true for mineral ions, but we know we've added an excess via EI. Ions will remain in solution unless they are:
  • Taken up by plants.
  • Combined into an insoluble compounds.
  • Bound via cation exchange, or
  • Chelated by an organic acid.
We can ignore "combined into insoluble compound", because nearly all potassium compounds are soluble. "Cation exchange" and "chelation" also aren't very likely, because ions with a higher valency (Ca++, Fe+++ etc) are more strongly bound than monovalent cations like K+.

So that only really leaves "taken up by plants", but we would then need a mechanism which interferes with K+ ion uptake, particularly because K+ ions are needed in large amounts (about the same nitrogen (N)).

There is such a mechanism, and it occurs when the levels of divalent cations like Ca++ and Mg++ are very high. This means that in very hard water (high dGH) K+ uptake by plants can be deficient even when K+ ions are available in solution.

So the next question would be "is the water very hard?"

cheers Darrel
Click to expand...

Thanks Darrel. Sorry to be such pain in the A**. However my conclusions were taken out of context. I said

sciencefiction said:
it could be related to bad distribution and that automatically means the co2 isn't distributed correctly too if nutrients aren't
Click to expand...
because if flow and distribution are affecting nutrients, it will definitely affect CO2 too providing distribution is the sole cause.
I did not say potassium deficiency automatically means CO2 deficiency and that they are similarly dissolved. I don't know the reason why Frenchi's tank shows potassium deficiency, but it does.
 
Hi all,
sciencefiction said:
because if flow and distribution are affecting nutrients
Click to expand...
No, as long as you have some mixing flow is basically irrelevant to the nutrients as ions, they will be pretty evenly distributed through-out the tank.

You can think of it like a cup of soup, that you've added salt (NaCl) to. As soon as the salt is dissolved (Na+, Cl- ions) the soup is all salty, you don't have patches which are salty and patches which aren't.

cheers Darrel
 
dw1305 said:
You can think of it like a cup of soup, that you've added salt (NaCl) to. As soon as the salt is dissolved (Na+, Cl- ions) the soup is all salty, you don't have patches which are salty and patches which aren't.
Click to expand...

Ok. Thanks. Never thought of it this way. So distribution or flow can't affect nutrients. That's handy :)
 
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