Just seeing this being recommended here ( Cycling advice for holidaying newbie) and I am not so sure 👍
Same reasons. Worked well for me 👍For me its not having to do multiple water changes due to the high ammonia levels in the beginning.
High ammonia burns sensitive plants and contributes to algae issues.
Dark start method is easy, simple and maintenance free (just let the filter run).
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I was just like, "Ooh, what a good question," and then see that it's my own thread. Doh! I forgot I dark started that tank at all! 😭Dark start worth the time?
I am very familiar with the theoretical benefits of doing a dark start, but it have also heard that it won't confer any real advantage over a regular plant-in fishless cycle with all the right boxes ticked (enough plants, appropriate light, and frequent water changes, etc). What is the current...www.ukaps.org
Reading this now
I think a lot of us <"may have been there">.I was just like, "Ooh, what a good question," and then see that it's my own thread.
Reducing ammonia (NH3) would be a reason for <"doing a dark start">, I know @Cor used this technique <"Amano Shrimp , co2 and Tropica soil">.There was never much of an ammonia dump from that aquasoil
I'd just try and ensure you have <"plenty of dissolved oxygen">.My next go round I'm planning on incorporating more organic matter in the substrate and still plan to give it a week or two before the plants. I still think it makes sense not just from an ammonia standpoint, but because of the huge microbial upheaval caused by the sudden submersion. Is that going to actually help? I don't know.
That is definitely where I'm coming from.I'd rather use a substrate that doesn't have the ammonia in the first place
Yes, I'm always going to be aiming for a <"low ammonia microbial assemblage">...... highlighted before the microbial community we wanted to try and establish are likely different to those that operate under high ammonia loading. So we still want the tank to only have pretty low ammonia levels during that dark start.....
I think a lot of people have always done this if they can (I always did), but it does seem to have a basis in Science <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee">.In both scenarios though, adding in some mulm from an existing 'dirty' filter significantly speeds up the maturation process
...... In some lab tests we found that adding previous material from a running biofilter could reduce ammonia oxidation start-up time from 2-3 weeks to 2-3 days.
We also tested a commercial product of nitrifiers & it did decrease the time to ammonia oxidation start-up. It was slower than our biofilter material transfer, but much quicker than doing nothing. However, the microbes present in the system from the commercial product disappeared over a few weeks and were replaced by those more common to our system. So, it seems some products could help “jump-start” the process, but it will be a lot less predictable and ultimately may not determine what microbe succeed in the long run. ........
My concern with this line of thinking is that the microbial community is going to go through changes every time you tweak your parameters. Is the microbiome you spend a few weeks cultivating in the dark going to be a better starting point than what they replaced (the one adapted to the air) once you add plants and turn the lights back on? I hope the answer is yes, because as you note it's an easy step to take. I've not given up on a dark start, but I don't feel like I have a nuanced understanding of what's going on.And it is not only about ammonia, it is about all the microbial life that will establish on every surface and on the water. The microbiota will converge to an equilibrium that doesn't include much algae, as they are in severe disadvantage without lights. And my theory is that once the microbiota is somewhat established, the algae will have a harder time overcoming it when we light up the tank.
I think you are right.And it is not only about ammonia, it is about all the microbial life that will establish on every surface and on the water. The microbiota will converge to an equilibrium that doesn't include much algae, as they are in severe disadvantage without lights. And my theory is that once the microbiota is somewhat established, the algae will have a harder time overcoming it when we light up the tank.
That is the <"million dollar question">, and I would <"really like to know the answer">. I'm going to guess that once the plants have grown in that <"the oscillations in microbial stability"> are going to be damped to a level where the tank is "fish safe".My concern with this line of thinking is that the microbial community is going to go through changes every time you tweak your parameters. Is the microbiome you spend a few weeks cultivating in the dark going to be a better starting point than what they replaced (the one adapted to the air) once you add plants and turn the lights back on? I hope the answer is yes,
I always use the Dark Start.I know @Cor used this technique
I'm with this. Might as well crack on with conditions you're heading for eventually anyway. There is going to be new tank trauma (and recovery) no matter what you do so why over-think it?My concern with this line of thinking is that the microbial community is going to go through changes every time you tweak your parameters. Is the microbiome you spend a few weeks cultivating in the dark going to be a better starting point than what they replaced (the one adapted to the air) once you add plants and turn the lights back on?
When I did it , I did get diatoms.In September I did the dark start, for about 2 months (or a bit less, around 6-7 weeks), I never faced the "diatoms phase", in fact I didn't get any kind of "algae phase".