Why are dark starts seen as beneficial for the planted aquarium?

[castle]

Just seeing this being recommended here ( Cycling advice for holidaying newbie) and I am not so sure 👍

 

[castle]

Dark start worth the time?

I am very familiar with the theoretical benefits of doing a dark start, but it have also heard that it won't confer any real advantage over a regular plant-in fishless cycle with all the right boxes ticked (enough plants, appropriate light, and frequent water changes, etc). What is the current...

www.ukaps.org

Reading this now

 

[Aqua Hero]

For me its not having to do multiple water changes due to the high ammonia levels in the beginning.

High ammonia burns sensitive plants and contributes to algae issues.

Dark start method is easy, simple and maintenance free (just let the filter run).

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[MrClockOff]

For me its not having to do multiple water changes due to the high ammonia levels in the beginning.

High ammonia burns sensitive plants and contributes to algae issues.

Dark start method is easy, simple and maintenance free (just let the filter run).

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Same reasons. Worked well for me 👍

 

[ElleDee]

Dark start worth the time?

I am very familiar with the theoretical benefits of doing a dark start, but it have also heard that it won't confer any real advantage over a regular plant-in fishless cycle with all the right boxes ticked (enough plants, appropriate light, and frequent water changes, etc). What is the current...

www.ukaps.org

Reading this now

I was just like, "Ooh, what a good question," and then see that it's my own thread. Doh! I forgot I dark started that tank at all! 😭

As you might intuit based on how forgettable it was, don't have a feeling if the dark start did much. There was never much of an ammonia dump from that aquasoil and honestly I've been unhappy with how lean the substrate has been overall.

My next go round I'm planning on incorporating more organic matter in the substrate and still plan to give it a week or two before the plants. I still think it makes sense not just from an ammonia standpoint, but because of the huge microbial upheaval caused by the sudden submersion. Is that going to actually help? I don't know.

As a side note, I did not find a big advantage to doing a dry start besides growing a carpet in. All the other plants grew about the same compared to those I planted underwater right away.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I was just like, "Ooh, what a good question," and then see that it's my own thread.

I think a lot of us <"may have been there">.

There was never much of an ammonia dump from that aquasoil

Reducing ammonia (NH3) would be a reason for <"doing a dark start">, I know @Cor used this technique <"Amano Shrimp , co2 and Tropica soil">.

My next go round I'm planning on incorporating more organic matter in the substrate and still plan to give it a week or two before the plants. I still think it makes sense not just from an ammonia standpoint, but because of the huge microbial upheaval caused by the sudden submersion. Is that going to actually help? I don't know.

I'd just try and ensure you have <"plenty of dissolved oxygen">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Wookii]

I think a dark start is a good strategy if you are using high ammonia releasing manufactured soils. I wouldn't consider it a reason not to flush that ammonia away with large water changes at the start though as mentioned above - as @dw1305 has highlighted before the microbial community we wanted to try and establish are likely different to those that operate under high ammonia loading. So we still want the tank to only have pretty low ammonia levels during that dark start.

The real benefit of the dark start prior to planting start is it allows all that ammonia to get removed and dealt with so we can avoid freshly planted plants being affected by it, and also avoid it being an early algae trigger before the tank can become microbially established.

Personally though these days, I'd rather use a substrate that doesn't have the ammonia in the first place, and then you can avoid the dark start, and plant straight away.

In both scenarios though, adding in some mulm from an existing 'dirty' filter significantly speeds up the maturation process.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I'd rather use a substrate that doesn't have the ammonia in the first place

That is definitely where I'm coming from.

..... highlighted before the microbial community we wanted to try and establish are likely different to those that operate under high ammonia loading. So we still want the tank to only have pretty low ammonia levels during that dark start.....

Yes, I'm always going to be aiming for a <"low ammonia microbial assemblage">.

In both scenarios though, adding in some mulm from an existing 'dirty' filter significantly speeds up the maturation process

I think a lot of people have always done this if they can (I always did), but it does seem to have a basis in Science <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee">.

This what Dr Newton said:

...... In some lab tests we found that adding previous material from a running biofilter could reduce ammonia oxidation start-up time from 2-3 weeks to 2-3 days.

We also tested a commercial product of nitrifiers & it did decrease the time to ammonia oxidation start-up. It was slower than our biofilter material transfer, but much quicker than doing nothing. However, the microbes present in the system from the commercial product disappeared over a few weeks and were replaced by those more common to our system. So, it seems some products could help “jump-start” the process, but it will be a lot less predictable and ultimately may not determine what microbe succeed in the long run. ........

cheers Darrel

 

[LMuhlen]

I've been developing a view that this focus on ammonia is slightly off-mark. Even tanks with normal substrates are prone to algae blooms at the start and a series of protocols are created to mitigate it. Be it low light, or increased water changes, or light fertilization for a few weeks, or planting heavily, all these strategies aim at reducing the chances of having issues during the first weeks. A dark start can act as a simpler and possibly more effective way of achieving the same.

And it is not only about ammonia, it is about all the microbial life that will establish on every surface and on the water. The microbiota will converge to an equilibrium that doesn't include much algae, as they are in severe disadvantage without lights. And my theory is that once the microbiota is somewhat established, the algae will have a harder time overcoming it when we light up the tank.

I don't have the data to defend the efficacy of the dark start, only the overall idea of what I think it has to offer. My experience building my tank once with a lit start and once with a dark start was as different as day and night, pun intended, but it is insignificant given how many parameters there always are. But at the same time, it is a procedure that has very little side effects other than delaying your tank for maybe a couple of weeks.

If the dark start also has a positive impact when using ammonia rich aqua soil, then that's just a bonus.

 

[ElleDee]

And it is not only about ammonia, it is about all the microbial life that will establish on every surface and on the water. The microbiota will converge to an equilibrium that doesn't include much algae, as they are in severe disadvantage without lights. And my theory is that once the microbiota is somewhat established, the algae will have a harder time overcoming it when we light up the tank.

My concern with this line of thinking is that the microbial community is going to go through changes every time you tweak your parameters. Is the microbiome you spend a few weeks cultivating in the dark going to be a better starting point than what they replaced (the one adapted to the air) once you add plants and turn the lights back on? I hope the answer is yes, because as you note it's an easy step to take. I've not given up on a dark start, but I don't feel like I have a nuanced understanding of what's going on.

 

[Scaperinc]

I think for me it was less cycling more to save daily water changes and any ill effects ammonia spike may cause to the plants and i had no melt what so ever. I have found it to be helpful but not alge free which is the main selling point and alge most likely is my own fault for being a noob alo used wood for the 1st time, darkmore roots , nothing but problems since day one. Specially BBA

 

[azawaza]

I was told before there was light, nature was enveloped in darkness. Basically me just wanna play god. Also was told higher diversity of microbiota counters algae's competitive advantage. And some bacterial/archean species thrive more in darkness than with light.

I dunno if all these = true.

But my low-tech nano tanks that began with DSM don't have algae, only manageable amounts of cyanobacteria which I siphon out per maintenance session monthly.

And, yes, of course, aquasoil leeches ammonia lots your first month: a fact all LFS should include for new enthusiasts to our hobby.

Life-tip: If you only have one bedsheet, cover your tank early in the morning; when the sun sets, remove said cloth from tank, place em on your unsheathed bed and voila! What better way to bond with your future pets' home. Day N+1: Rinse and repeat. You're welcome.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

And it is not only about ammonia, it is about all the microbial life that will establish on every surface and on the water. The microbiota will converge to an equilibrium that doesn't include much algae, as they are in severe disadvantage without lights. And my theory is that once the microbiota is somewhat established, the algae will have a harder time overcoming it when we light up the tank.

I think you are right.

My concern with this line of thinking is that the microbial community is going to go through changes every time you tweak your parameters. Is the microbiome you spend a few weeks cultivating in the dark going to be a better starting point than what they replaced (the one adapted to the air) once you add plants and turn the lights back on? I hope the answer is yes,

That is the <"million dollar question">, and I would <"really like to know the answer">. I'm going to guess that once the plants have grown in that <"the oscillations in microbial stability"> are going to be damped to a level where the tank is "fish safe".

cheers Darrel