What exactly causes BBA? Part 2 - Bacterial imbalance

[tiger15]

What baffles me most is 1 little 25 litre tank only stocked with shrimps and snails never fertilezed standing for a few years periods heated and periods not heated, it stands beside a window and has only natural light. It never even grew a spot of BBA, if i throw BBA infested plants in there they come out clean weeks later. 🙂

I have similar experience as yours. I have a one gal planted shrimp bowl by the window (in the avatar) that has no heater, no filter, and no artificial light, just receiving 4 hour direct sunlight daily. The plants are lush with no trace of BBA from day one I set it up. I transferred some BBA infested plants from my big fish tank, and the BBA are gone in few weeks. I do not fertilize or do water change, except I top it with dirty water from my big fish tank regularly. Nitrate is always detected near zero. Occasionally I do negative WC by replacing a few ounze of clean water in the bowl with dirty water from my big fish tank.

The shrimp are rarely fed, and live on dead plant tissues, algae that I can't see, and biofilm. There are snails and variety of tinny critters crawling around. The bowl is totally free of algae of any sort that I can see. Is it UV from direct sunlight or insignificant bio load that keep BBA out.

 

[zozo]

Is it UV from direct sunlight

Likely not, glass filters the majority of daylights harmfull UV, 🙂 that's why we do not get a burn nor a tan from sitting in the sun behind glass, we only get hot. For the rest conserning UV lights as used in aqaurium and ponds it can kill free floating 1 cell organisme in the water column such as germs and free floating algae cells causing green water. Only if there is sufficient intensity and exposure time.. If both are not met it smiles and waves and swims by back to the tank. 🙂

 

[rebel]

The tiny ostracods etc could have a significant effect though. I've heard of them destroying GSA in some tanks.

Any ideas on 'flipping' the tanks to another equilibrium and perhaps into a domination of algae that can be easily controlled such as GDA etc?

 

[tiger15]

Likely not, glass filters the majority of daylights harmfull UV, 🙂 that's why we do not get a burn nor a tan from sitting in the sun behind glass, we only get hot. 🙂

That isn’t true. Truck drivers who are exposed to glass filtered sunlight on one side have uneven tanning that has been demonstrated by X-ray of excessive skin damage on one side of the face.

Outdoor tubs also don’t get bba, but green water and other nasty algae. So there is suggestion that UV may have something to do with it.

The tiny ostracods etc could have a significant effect though. I've heard of them destroying GSA in some tanks.
?

ostracods can certainly take out GSA, but not bba as many bba infested tanks have ostracods too.

 

[Edvet]

Truck drivers who are exposed to glass filtered sunlight on one side

Aren't they driving with their windows down? ( you see that in warmer climates like Australia)

 

[zozo]

There is UVA and UVB, glass filters about all UV-B and a part of the UV-A.. You wont get a tan nor a burn behind a window.. All tho, very long intensive sun exposure behind glass still bombards your skin with UV-A and can indeed lead to skin damage in te long run. UV-B is the most intensive an damaging wave length of UV light.

If it has a limiting effect on certain algae growth i can't say. As you say it's a suggestion. Who knows?... At least it doesn't always on green algae, because many outdoor pond owners still install an UV light to kill off green algae bloom in their ponds.. Obviously the sunlights UV only doesn't do the job in certain scenarios. But i wouldn't know, i never ever experienced green algae bloom in any of my setups, not outdoor not indoor. Maybe its the UV in combination with??.. 🙄

 

[ian_m]

Normal glass basically does not pass UV. Which is why UV equipment uses quartz glass.

This is why the halogen desk lamps (and all halogen lamps) have a single glass sheet in front of the quartz halogen bulb. There were issues, years ago with cheap imported halogen desk lamps with no glass and people suffered sunburn on back of their hands as well as paperwork being bleached.

 

[louis_last]

I've had a minor issue with BBA recently after I replaced my filter media and have been doing some very casual experiments recently after I read that hyalella azteca scuds will readily consume it. I can confirm they do. This particular species of scud can't sustain themselves in my tank water because it's too soft but ive been keeping them in a bucket with some limestone scoria and under these conditions they reproduce very quickly and eat huge amounts of BBA and other algae. I've been removing hardscape pieces with various mosses and bucephalandra growing on them and placing them in the scud bucket and they clear them entirely of BBA within 24-48 hours with no damage to plants and even very, very small and delicate moss species like fissidens splachnabryoides. They actually seem to be much more effective algae eaters than amano shrimp or anything else sold for the purpose. I suppose the downside with scuds is that if they can reproduce in your tank, then they certainly will and I've seen many reports of them stripping plants bare after they run out of algae. Temporarily removing hardscape that isn't fixed to a scud tank is very, very effective though and I'm surprised they aren't mentioned more often for this useful trait of eating BBA.
I also found a reference in some literature to various copepods consuming, or at least harming through parasitism, this class of algae.

Various members of Thalestridae and Dactylopusiidae have nauplii and early copepodid stages that actively excavate the medullary tissues of brown and red algae. Rhodophyta contains the most heavily and routinely inhabited hosts.

I have some smaller crangonyx pseudogracillis scuds courtesy of @dw1305 that I hope will be able to breed in my soft water. So far the adults seem to be doing fine and it will be interesting to see whether they also have the capacity to consume BBA.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I have some smaller crangonyx pseudogracillis scuds courtesy of @dw1305 that I hope will be able to breed in my soft water. So far the adults seem to be doing fine and it will be interesting to see whether they also have the capacity to consume BBA.

I think they should breed OK in softer water. At the moment I only have a population in one of the tanks without any fish, which also doesn't have any BBA, but it does have lots of snails etc

The "problem" in the other tanks is that they are <"cat nip to most fish"> and are always eaten before they can reproduce.

cheers Darrel

 

[Calamardo Tentaculos]

Hi all,

I think they should breed OK in softer water. At the moment I only have a population in one of the tanks without any fish, which also doesn't have any BBA, but it does have lots of snails etc

The "problem" in the other tanks is that they are <"cat nip to most fish"> and are always eaten before they can reproduce.

cheers Darrel

I can attest to that. The ones that you gave me are now extinct in my tank. I was hoping that the plant density would allow them to thrive but clearly I was wrong about that

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The ones that you gave me are now extinct in my tank. I was hoping that the plant density would allow them to thrive but clearly I was wrong about that

Mine have been in with a low stocking of <"Corydoras (Gastrodermus) pygmaeus"> and <"Axelrodia riesei"> and they've managed to remove them, so I'm guessing that nearly all fish will extirpate them.

They have fairly low water quality requirements, so it is easy to retain a breeding stock in a plastic buckets with a few plants and the occasional feeding of vegetables etc. The same applies to Asellus, but they are more persistent in the tank, with most fish.

You can also use Crangonyx to clean up moss etc of <"any green algal threads">, they are very efficient cleaners. If I can find some <"BBA"> (Audouinella) I'll see what they make of that.

cheers Darrel

 

[louis_last]

Hi all,

Mine have been in with a low stocking of <"Corydoras (Gastrodermus) pygmaeus"> and <"Axelrodia riesei"> and they've managed to remove them, so I'm guessing that nearly all fish will extirpate them.

The ones I got from you have been in a tank with dwarf kuhli loaches and sundanio axelrodi and I've seen no indiciation that either fish is eating them. I can still spot some whenever I look in the tank. Sundanio seem to be much more specific in what they will eat than similar small boraras species. My boraras are very adaptable and will learn to pick flake and frozen food off plants and hardscape when it has settled but not the sundanio - if food isn't floating in the water column they won't touch it at all. It seems only the adult crangonyx occasionally zoom around in the open water and the sundanio don't respond to them at all just as if they weren't there. I'm hoping the babies generally will stay hidden in the gravel and moss. The sundanio will even totally ignore copepods that cling to surfaces whereas boraras will happily pick them off and even worms from the substrate.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The ones I got from you have been in a tank with dwarf kuhli loaches and sundanio axelrodi and I've seen no indiciation that either fish is eating them. I can still spot some whenever I look in the tank. Sundanio seem to be much more specific in what they will eat than similar small boraras species.

Useful to know, I would have bet on any Loaches being particularly efficient predators of them.

I wonder if it is because they are both black-water fish, and these water conditions don't support any crustaceans in their native state?

Cheers Darrel

 

[Calamardo Tentaculos]

Hi all,

Mine have been in with a low stocking of <"Corydoras (Gastrodermus) pygmaeus"> and <"Axelrodia riesei"> and they've managed to remove them, so I'm guessing that nearly all fish will extirpate them.

They have fairly low water quality requirements, so it is easy to retain a breeding stock in a plastic buckets with a few plants and the occasional feeding of vegetables etc. The same applies to Asellus, but they are more persistent in the tank, with most fish.

You can also use Crangonyx to clean up moss etc of <"any green algal threads">, they are very efficient cleaners. If I can find some <"BBA"> (Audouinella) I'll see what they make of that.

cheers Darrel

And the bucket can be left out in the elements with no issue at all?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

And the bucket can be left out in the elements with no issue at all?

I assume if it froze solid it would kill them off, but I have had the <"same bucket"> outside for at least eight years.

I bring a few inside as an insurance (in <"Keeping Frogbit out of main tank">), but I haven't needed them.

Cheers Darrel

 

[louis_last]

Hi all,

Useful to know, I would have bet on any Loaches being particularly efficient predators of them.

I wonder if it is because they are both black-water fish, and these water conditions don't support any crustaceans in their native state?

Cheers Darrel

These are dwarf kuhlis, only 2-3cm long fully grown. I think they might potentially eat the very smallest babies but shrimp manage to breed alongside them without problems so fingers crossed. I'm hoping the kuhlis might eventually breed so there is a lot of round gravel and pebbles of different sizes as well as tons of lava rocks i've drilled countless holes and tunnels into to hopefully provide a refuge for the eggs and fry - fingers crossed the baby crangonyx survive in there too.
I've seen people saying kuhlis are no good for reducing numbers in a regular skud infestation too though so it may be that they are just too fast for them to catch.