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Using Dry Start Method

M

maverick786us

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Columbus, GA
In my main article about my next aquascape,

M

Thread 'My 89 Litre project.'

1. Size of tank in litres. - 89 L Tank size + 3L Fluval 207 canister filter
2. Age of the set - up. - 45 days 3 weeks dry start, 2 weeks with Eheim Classic 250 + 2 weeks with fluvial 207
3. Filtration + Media/Sponges. - Fluval 207, with filter media that comes shipped with the filter + a 7 inch coarse sponge on the filter intake
4. Lighting and duration. - 8 hours photo period with CO2 injection
5. Substrate. - Platinum soil
6. Co2 dosing or Non-dosing. - 8 hours
7. Fertilizers used & Ratios. - Fertilizer + Micro nutrients + Macro nutrients twice a week
8. Water change regime and type.-...
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This is the first time I am using DSM.
I have few questions about DSM

1. In DSM does the tank goes through the cycling too? It's not that I will immediately put live stocks after flooding. I can wait for a month or even more with livestocks after filling the water. But a cycled tank benefits plants too. Now the plants mostly these sensitive grass from tissue culture find it hard to adopt and melt because of access nutrients and ammonia released from fresh soil. So after flooding if the tank isn't cycled I am worried about loosing my grass.

2. I have read that in DSM method, some people partially fill their tanks with water to.keep the soil wet, but the water level remains under the plants. I am not doing that. I only mist water twice a day to ensure that the plants and top most layer of the substrate remains moist. Am I making a mistake?
 
The substrate does cycle, however your filter doesn't. To get round this I set up my filter with a dustbin full of water and had it running with the filter media in, I added a few fish flakes in the bin every few days plus added a glass full of my urine every few days. Then when dry start was over after about six weeks filter was also ready and started to add live stock after a few days.

The trick is to keep the water below the substrate and the substrate just moist, which is easy at the lower levels, but the higher levels dry out quicker, mold can be an issue if it gets too wet so dont mist too much. I Used cling film to cover top of tank at first then the glass covers was enough on there own. needed to air the tank at times to control mold as the weeks went by.
If the plants get cover by water they don't benefit from the higher levels of CO2 in the atmosphere

Dry start Olympus is calling
 
Hi all,
maverick786us said:
Now the plants mostly these sensitive grass from tissue culture find it hard to adopt and melt because of access nutrients and ammonia released from fresh soil. So after flooding if the tank isn't cycled I am worried about loosing my grass.
Click to expand...
You may have problems with DSM and an ammonia rich substrate, the small volume of water will concentrate the nutrients and <"may cause fertiliser burn">.

Have a look at <"And so it begins..."> & <"Nano Tank (ish)"> and linked threads.
Zeus. said:
If the plants get cover by water they don't benefit from the higher levels of CO2 in the atmosphere
Click to expand...
That is the one, you need the roots wet and the leaves with <"access to atmospheric gases">.

Personally I'm not keen on nutrient rich substrates (particularly those with ammonia). If I was forced to use one? I'd start with a <"Dark Start"> and plenty of water changes until I'd depleted the ammonia.
dw1305 said:
After the "dark start" and planting I would still let the tank grow in before I added the livestock. The process never really ends, as the plants grow in the potential bioload that the aquarium can successfully sustain just becomes larger.
Click to expand...

cheers Darrel
 
Just a reminder that everything takes a lot of time to stabilise. I’m not very experienced but have seen a ton of posts about new tanks both successful and unsuccessful.
So…
When you decide to flood the tank, just keep on top of maintenance. Keep removing any melting leaves, manually remove algae and do lots of water changes.
Use fertiliser, mild lighting and floating plants to help the tank stabilise.
After a few months, plants should be adjusting and finding a balance. Then you can start to think about what livestock.

I think the main mistake people seem to make is changing everything every few days and dropping in livestock before the tank has settled in.

I partly blame the YouTube videos where they rush a tank for content reasons. No need to rush if your not after views for income.
 
dw1305 said:
Hi all,

You may have problems with DSM and an ammonia rich substrate, the small volume of water will concentrate the nutrients and <"may cause fertiliser burn">.

Have a look at <"And so it begins..."> & <"Nano Tank (ish)"> and linked threads.

That is the one, you need the roots wet and the leaves with <"access to atmospheric gases">.

Personally I'm not keen on nutrient rich substrates (particularly those with ammonia). If I was forced to use one? I'd start with a <"Dark Start"> and plenty of water changes until I'd depleted the ammonia.


cheers Darrel
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information.

Looking into the picture, how much water do I need to fill to keep the roots wet?

1734016930923.jpeg
 
Always good to have an area you can remove water as regular misting of high areas soon raises the water level.
dw1305 said:
You will need to maintain really high humidity to stop your epiphytes "crisping". Are they removable?
Click to expand...

I would keep the water level only just above the substrate, I used a big syringe after misting keeping water level down
If the humidity is kept high for the whole DSM mold is more likely to be an issue.

epiphytes are best fixed just before flooding IMO
 
dw1305 said:
Hi all,

The water level looks all right, although with a sloping substrate you are always have some wetter and some drier areas. You will need to maintain really high humidity to stop your epiphytes "crisping". Are they removable?

cheers Darrel
Click to expand...
I glued them on rocks but the bond isn't that strong, I can remove them if I have to, without hurting them much. Those epiphytes are on the bottom most part of the substrate. slope made it hard, that's why I mist my tank heavily twice a day to keep moisture high
 
I forgot to mention, the only epiphyte I am using is Anubias nana petite from tissue culture (just 1 cup). Before flooding I will more of these plants and glue them on the hardscape.
 
Zeus. said:
Always good to have an area you can remove water as regular misting of high areas soon raises the water level.


I would keep the water level only just above the substrate, I used a big syringe after misting keeping water level down
If the humidity is kept high for the whole DSM mold is more likely to be an issue.

epiphytes are best fixed just before flooding IMO
Click to expand...
How do you deal with molds? There is no way I can get Springfield from a store
 
OK I can see mold started developing on the lower side of the spiderwood.
How do I get rid of it before it spreads all over the tank and consume plants.

1734077487714.jpeg

1734077445027.jpeg
 
I can consider 2 options. Mouthwash or Bleaching powder which I dilute in water and apply in that section of spider wood where these molds emerged. Both items contains Hydrogen peroxide. With mouthwash I feel more safe in a way that it won't cause any harm to the plants or the beneficial bacteria. Bleach looks strong but I don't know what harm it can cause to plants, soil and the beneficial bacteria. Which one of these options should I use?
 
maverick786us said:
How do you deal with molds?
Click to expand...
I removed the glass lids and let the wood dry out, reducing the relative humidity, for varying periods it soon got under control, but was always present. My DSM lasted about six weeks and towards the end the glass lids was mainly off to control the mold, however I hand only planted the carpet plants for the DSM. Once flooded the mould went crazy but the Amanos soon sorted it out.
 
Hi all,
maverick786us said:
I can consider 2 options. Mouthwash or Bleaching powder which I dilute in water and apply in that section of spider wood where these molds emerged. Both items contains Hydrogen peroxide
Click to expand...
You need to make sure you don't get any on the moss. Personally I'd just manually clean it with a tooth-brush or similar.

The problem is that there is <"still green sap in the wood"> and until that is all consumed mold will keep on growing. You know the fungi <"aren't feeding on the wood itself">, because very few organisms have the <"potential to degrade lignin">, they are utilising the low hanging fruits of sugars etc.

These "aquascaping" woods were <"growing trees"> that have been cut down <"and debarked">, it is different with wood that has come from a branch <"that is long dead">, or that died a natural death.
maverick786us said:
There is no way I can get Springfield from a store
Click to expand...
Spring-tails occur where ever there <"are accumulations of organic matter">, just get a handful of partially decomposed dead leaves and that is your inoculum.

cheers Darrel
 
Last edited:
dw1305 said:
Hi all,

You need to make sure you don't get any on the moss. Personally I'd just manually clean it with a tooth-brush or similar.

The problem is that there is <"still green sap in the wood"> and until that is all consumed mould will keep on growing. You know the fungi <"aren't feeding on the wood itself">, because very few organisms have the <"potential to degrade lignin">, they utilising the low hanging fruit of sugars etc.

These "aquascaping" woods were <"growing trees"> that have been cut down <"and debarked">, it is different with wood that has come from a branch <"that is long dead">, or that died a natural death.

Spring-tails occur where ever there <"are accumulations of organic matter">, just get a handful of partially decomposed dead leaves and that is your inoculum.

cheers Darrel
Click to expand...
I realized that I should have put these woods in boiling water before using it.
 
Zeus. said:
I removed the glass lids and let the wood dry out, reducing the relative humidity, for varying periods it soon got under control, but was always present. My DSM lasted about six weeks and towards the end the glass lids was mainly off to control the mold, however I hand only planted the carpet plants for the DSM. Once flooded the mould went crazy but the Amanos soon sorted it out.
Click to expand...
Unlike Glossostigma my grasses aren't carpet plants, but these are still grasses and in my previous setup grass that came out of tissue culture always melted inside a newly setup tank because of excess nutrient ammonia been released from fresh soil. Thats why I decided to use DSM so that those grasses form their roots and start spreading before flooding
 
Hi all,
maverick786us said:
I realized that I should have put these woods in boiling water before using it.
Click to expand...
It honestly wouldn't have made any difference, these molds (Rhizopus, Mucor etc) are opportunistic saprotrophs <"Saprotrophic nutrition - Wikipedia"> of any nutrient rich dead material, they are universal in the atmosphere.

It is a bit like if you made Lasagne and then left it out for a week, it has been heat treated but that won't stop mold spores finding it.

cheers Darrel
 
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dw1305 said:
It is a bit like if you made Lasagne and then left it out for a week
Click to expand...
Why would you leave such lovely food out for a week? 🙂

Regards,
Garfield
 
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