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Using dry ferts help

Bhavik

Member
Joined
17 Feb 2017
Messages
250
Location
London
Hi there I had a question regarding ferts dosing.
So I live in London and my tank is filled with hard water don’t know how hard but I think slight - medium.
Now I have made a dry ferts solution made up of using warm water which is connected to a water softener and my question is would the contents of the ferts dissolve fine in my tank when added?

Thanks
 
You should never use water softened water in your tank ever, as it contains sodium (as carbonate). Sodium has no major biological role in fish or plants and will just accumulate. Why do you think the sea is salty, there are no plants or animals using the sodium.

You could use potassium chloride in your softener, if you can afford it, that is fine. In States some states it is law to use potassium in water softeners due to sodium accumulation in sewerage.

Basically mix your EI using cooled bolied water, you will be fine.
 
You should never use water softened water in your tank ever, as it contains sodium (as carbonate). Sodium has no major biological role in fish or plants and will just accumulate. Why do you think the sea is salty, there are no plants or animals using the sodium.

You could use potassium chloride in your softener, if you can afford it, that is fine. In States some states it is law to use potassium in water softeners due to sodium accumulation in sewerage.

Basically mix your EI using cooled bolied water, you will be fine.

Oh ok didn’t know that thanks for that! I didn’t think it would matter if I used water softener water in the tank not that I do always been adding normal water.
I also wanted to ask.

I have been using the miracle grow all purpose plant food it looks like osmocote. Can’t get osmocote here as I find shipping too expensive. Is this any good? Only problem I am having and hence don’t like using them is the yellow beads only don’t dissolve so when you disturb the substrate a billion of these yellow beads pop out.
 
I have been using the miracle grow all purpose plant food it looks like osmocote
Be careful some of these ferts contain ammonium compounds (ammonium nitrate, ammonium citrate and others) that are very toxic to fish (and can produce algae blooms), which is why it is generally ok to use them buried in the substrate where they release slowly. On saying that not heard anyone wipe out their fish or produce algae blooms when accidentally exposing the ferts.

You are in London, you can get proper Osmocote from Ebay and most garden/DIY centres.

One hint about placing Osmacote is to freeze it in water in an ice cube tray and then you can easily push the frozen cubes under the substrate, say 1-2cm deep (or more).
 
One hint about placing Osmacote is to freeze it in water in an ice cube tray and then you can easily push the frozen cubes under the substrate, say 1-2cm deep (or more).

I do the same. Noticed you can get empty organic gelatine caps on auction sites that you can fill yourself with whatever, not sure if these have any issues once dissolved in the water though. I capture rain water for my fert bottle mixes these days. Started just with the traces as my tapwater is quite heavy on phosphates and didn't like the idea it could be possibly reacting with the iron but now I do the Macros with it as well. I just put a bucket out on the garden a couple of hours after the initial downpour once most of the crap is down. I only need about a ltr for both bottles so doesn't take long especially where I live where we have had "prolonged showers" for a couple of hundred years :D
 
Be careful some of these ferts contain ammonium compounds (ammonium nitrate, ammonium citrate and others) that are very toxic to fish (and can produce algae blooms), which is why it is generally ok to use them buried in the substrate where they release slowly. On saying that not heard anyone wipe out their fish or produce algae blooms when accidentally exposing the ferts.

You are in London, you can get proper Osmocote from Ebay and most garden/DIY centres.

One hint about placing Osmacote is to freeze it in water in an ice cube tray and then you can easily push the frozen cubes under the substrate, say 1-2cm deep (or more).

Hi thanks for that yes that’s what I do with the miracle grow root tabs I’m using fill them in an ice cube tray and then freeze and put them in.

This is what it looks like
But the only problem I’m having is having some yellow beads in there that don’t fully dissolve and when I disturb the substrate they all come up. Does this happen with Osmacote?
 

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Hi thanks for that yes that’s what I do with the miracle grow root tabs I’m using fill them in an ice cube tray and then freeze and put them in.

This is what it looks like
But the only problem I’m having is having some yellow beads in there that don’t fully dissolve and when I disturb the substrate they all come up. Does this happen with Osmacote?
Yeah, Osmocote does the same thing. Not sure how these things are made or whether the bead that gets leftover is purely there for transporting the nutrients which are coated on it but eventually the beads do make their way to the surface. Just syphon them out or pick them out with the king tweezers. I guess they've done their job by then anyway.

Can't really think of a way that these things "slowly release" other than when they are in contact with moisture so when it rains some of the nutrients dissolve so if that is correct I would say they release a lot faster under water than in the garden soil.

Only guessing at that mind you, maybe someone more knowledgeable can elaborate.

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk
 
Yes looks like they contain ammonium citrate so try not to let too much get in the water at one go.

When I had "floaters" like you describe I just pushed them back under the substrate or crushed them up with fingers.
 
Yeah I understand it’s just very annoying about yellow beads all over the substrate.

As for the freezing method I never know how much to put into one cube. I use one cube for one plant

Also what is the difference between clay peat balls and the root tabs? And are clay peat balls any good?
 
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Also what is the difference between clay peat balls and the root tabs? And are clay peat balls any good?
Clay peat balls are just clay and peat. Unless the particular brand being purchased indicates otherwise on the package then this is generally a waste of time.
Clay is a typical aquatic substrate due to it's ability to capture nutrients from the water column and to then pass it on to the roots of plants. As I mentioned, some clay products such as ADA Aquasoil take this one step further and they soak the clay gravel in a nutrient rich solution. Peat is also added to the solution. The product is then baked. So this makes it a nutrient rich substrate. This is a completely different effect than clay balls, which does nothing really. Clay balls are a marketing strategy.
If you want to use clay as a substrate but don't want to spend the money for expensive products like ADA Aquasoil, then simply go to any garden center that sells clay sediments for bonsai plants.

A root tab on the other hand is a product that typically contains NPK and sometimes trace elements that dissolve in the sediment. As always, they should be placed deep in the substrate because they typically derive their Nitrogen from ammonium salts. So if they are pulled up from the substrate when replanting then they can release ammonia/ammonium into the water column and can trigger algal blooms.

Osmocote cupsules contain the same ingredients as root tabs but is a lot cheaper/ The same caution applies however, that they are high in ammonia.
Osmocote is best used when setting up the tank as small amounts can be spread over the bottom glass and then the sediment of choice can be placed over the granules.

The OP is advised to abandon the idea of using root tabs or osmocote. Dose the water column as previously planned and forget about hard water effects, becaues it really doesn't matter. Also, as advised by other posters, your fertilizer mix should avoid Miracle Grow or other ammonium containing salts. Use standard products that can be purchase from any of our sponsors, KNO3, KH2PO4 and Trace Element mix. These will be a lot safer for your fish.

Cheers,
 
Thanks a lot for explaining that to me!
That helped a lot! And sure i’ll will carry on with just dosing the liquid ferts.
Where would I go about buying these is it from this website?
 
Thank you! For that i’ll go have a look at it!

I have a 200L tank with 2 x 25watt aqua sky led lights. Tank is around 55cm to the substrate and wanted to ask would I be fine growing all of these plants with the ferts and the lighting?

aponogeton boivinianus
Staurogyne reps
Nymphoides sp
Vals nana
Dwarf sag
Red lotus

I could add another t8 30w tube if lighting is short
 
Thinking that you need more light is the path to disaster.
You are advised to stick with the lighting that you have and hope that you don't already have too much.

Light causes algae. Too much light causes too much algae.

Concentrate your energy on ensuring good flow rate, good distribution of that flow rate and good CO2. That is the path to ensuring excellent plant health.
More light can always be added once you have achieved good gas exchange.

Cheers,
 
Oh no adding more lighting is just a suggestion if need be I haven’t added it yet and the current lights I have can be dimmed if need be as well.

I have tried to get good flow around the tank so just before I buy the plants above would the current setup I have be able to grow the plants listed above?
 
I have tried to get good flow around the tank so just before I buy the plants above would the current setup I have be able to grow the plants listed above?
Hi,
Well of course. There aren't any plants that cannot be grown with this combination. It's not how much light you have that determines success. It's how well you are able to provide good flow and distribution.
Saying that you have good flow around the tank is easy. Actually having good flow/distribution and CO2 dissolution is not so easy.

Success growing these and any plants will be strictly dependent on CO2/flow/distribution as well as your nutritional program and maintenance habits. There are so many factors it's difficult to predict success with having very specific details. The only details we have so far is that you have hard water, which doesn't really matter, that you have 200L and that you have a bunch of lights. These detail are relevant within the context of the more important details as follows:

We do not know, for example what kind of filtration or supplementary pumps you have. We do not know how the pump/filter outputs are arranged. We do not know how you are dissolving CO2. We do not know the diameter of the hose or the type and quantity of the filter media, which affects flow. Maybe you have already optimized these factors, as you mention, but we cannot say for certain until we are able to assess that information.
These are the things that matter most.

The only effect more light will have is to make things happen faster, but faster is not necessarily better because bad things happen in the tank faster than good things.

Inexperienced hobbyists are always worried about whether they have enough light to grow this plant or another, when actually 99.999% of the time they have way too much light which sets up a series of events that contributes to failure. The industry in general programs people to worry about this so that the hobbyist will spend lots of time, energy and money buying lighting products, which they all seem to have a stake in. The hobbyist is told that he must change his bulb regularly, so he/she spends more money on absurdly priced bulbs that cost no more to make than the bulbs at Tesco. We are told that only specialist "Plant Bulbs" are satisfactory thereby ensuring that the high bulb prices can be justified.


You would be wise to start asking the right questions, such as:
Do I have enough pumping power?
How should I arrange the filter outputs?
How much and often should I change my water?
How should I dose the water column and what products should I use?
What is the best CO2 dissolution method for 200L?
Should I be concerned about water chemistry?
Should I trust test kits?

There are about 100 more questions that are important to know the answer to.

The "Do I have enough light?" question should be down at around number 101.

Cheers,
 
Hi thanks for that i appreciate the reply i think ive got what your trying to say now.
I will leave the lights till very last.

So the answer to your questions are that i have a fluval 205 filter with a U bend output right now and its near the top of the tank so it makes ripples. I dont know if this is correct and your advice would be great. The media filter i have is standand what came with it 4 large sponges and 2 bio media and one of the tray is empty which should have carbon.

As for the water change i do it roughly every 2 weeks and i know it should be about once a week. I tend to add liquid about 5ml when needed.
Is there anything else you would like to know please let me know!

thanks
 
I will leave the lights till very last.
Yes, a very wise decision.

Since you haven't mentioned anything about CO2 it's completely unclear at this point whether you are using gaseous CO2, or using a liquid carbon product, or whether this is a low tech tank.

Carbon enrichment is a completely different ball game, so the procedures and equipment requirements are unclear, so you'll need to clarify because I and Ian have been assuming a CO2 tank in our responses.

So for a CO2 gas injected tank, for example, a Fluval 205 may not be adequate but in a low tech tank it may be OK.

Cheers,
 
Yes, a very wise decision.

Since you haven't mentioned anything about CO2 it's completely unclear at this point whether you are using gaseous CO2, or using a liquid carbon product, or whether this is a low tech tank.

Carbon enrichment is a completely different ball game, so the procedures and equipment requirements are unclear, so you'll need to clarify because I and Ian have been assuming a CO2 tank in our responses.

So for a CO2 gas injected tank, for example, a Fluval 205 may not be adequate but in a low tech tank it may be OK.

Cheers,

Ok as for co2 I wasn’t dosing or adding co2 so far but from yesterday onwards I going to be adding about 5ml of easycarbo everyday just to see if that gets things along.

I would like to keep it low tech but don’t mind dosing easycarbo if it helps with getting the plants along

Why would you say that the fluval 205 wouldn’t be enough?
 
Ceg any help?

Also I have seen some browning on the water wisteria leaves, this is what it looks like.
What is this and why is this occurring? Is it dying?
It grew great in a small 20 litre tank and moved it to the bigger tank as the plant was pretty large.
 

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