That would rule out Mg deficiency.
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Two faced tank
- Thread starter LMuhlen
- Start date
Do you think it's a bad symptom?
Yes, once the plants start showing chlorosis, they could get even worse if the problem persists.
I think you will have to dose some amount of micros, im not entirely sure why you stopped dosing those completely?
The question of Iron source is whether the plants are able to grab what they need before the iron precipitates.
Id advise you to dose a balanced mix of micros including Fe, if you didn't like what you were dosing before you dont have to go back to that amount, but try increasing from your current zero until you see the leaves are coming out normal again.
Hmmm ok, its been a good while since I stopped dosing micros and I was curious which plant would display any symptoms first. I wasn't sure it was a bad symptom because I see some cryptos for sale that display patterns like this "on purpose", and they are considerably more expensive around here...
The Fe dosing is still at a decent standard, with the EDDHA and the gluconate. From what I can observe with my limited observing skills, Fe deficiency symptoms reduced/ended since I started gluconate. The reason to stop the micros was that I wasn't that sure it was helping at all and I remember reading about some person who had black spot algae and green spot algae in the anubias, just like mine, and he saw a quick improvement when he stopped dosing micros. So it was an experiment, for me. Maybe it's ran its due course and I can resume dosing... In the end, anubias condition improved marginally in the past few months and the results for the experiment were inconclusive.
I'll wait for one more crypto leaf to form to see if this deficiency remains, and if it does I'll resume with micros to see if the next leaves are different. That would be compelling evidence that the micros were missed.
The Fe dosing is still at a decent standard, with the EDDHA and the gluconate. From what I can observe with my limited observing skills, Fe deficiency symptoms reduced/ended since I started gluconate. The reason to stop the micros was that I wasn't that sure it was helping at all and I remember reading about some person who had black spot algae and green spot algae in the anubias, just like mine, and he saw a quick improvement when he stopped dosing micros. So it was an experiment, for me. Maybe it's ran its due course and I can resume dosing... In the end, anubias condition improved marginally in the past few months and the results for the experiment were inconclusive.
I'll wait for one more crypto leaf to form to see if this deficiency remains, and if it does I'll resume with micros to see if the next leaves are different. That would be compelling evidence that the micros were missed.
Hi all,
I'm guessing that difference just meant that the algae disappeared because at least one of the essential nutrients for plant growth was lacking, and that eventually that deficiency would have effected the Anubias as well.
cheers Darrel
It is back to all <"green photosynthetic organisms being "plants">. The major differences are growth rate and plumbing, basically higher plants and ferns can shuffle (most) nutrients around the plant via their vascular tissue, mosses and the algae can't and are reliant on the ions that diffuse into their cells. If a plant is slow growing, like an Anubias, then it takes longer for deficiencies to show and also any recovery takes longer.
I'm guessing that difference just meant that the algae disappeared because at least one of the essential nutrients for plant growth was lacking, and that eventually that deficiency would have effected the Anubias as well.
cheers Darrel
Quick update, this week I dosed micros again. Used to dose 3 times through the week, so I did one of those. I'll probably not do the other ones this first week.
There has been a development I hadn't noticed before, but in recent times some of the plants grew much larger than they were before. Particularly the Echinodorus parviflorus and the bolbitis, but also that particular crypto, which was more than 25cm tall and it was getting in the way of the already fragile attempt at keeping a layout in that part of the tank. In my previous tank, that crypto was maybe 10cm tall only... So despite me wanting to use it as a test for the micros, since it had the most distinct symptoms so far, I had a burst of unease this weekend and moved it a little to the side, out of the way of the plants behind.
I found 30cm+ long roots 😱 but they were bone-white. That should be a good sign.
The bottom line is that now I won't be sure if whatever changes with that plant was due to the micros or the move.
The red devils survived their quarantine and are now in the main tank, looking right at home.
No plans for further changes, I'll try and keep things stable for a while.
There has been a development I hadn't noticed before, but in recent times some of the plants grew much larger than they were before. Particularly the Echinodorus parviflorus and the bolbitis, but also that particular crypto, which was more than 25cm tall and it was getting in the way of the already fragile attempt at keeping a layout in that part of the tank. In my previous tank, that crypto was maybe 10cm tall only... So despite me wanting to use it as a test for the micros, since it had the most distinct symptoms so far, I had a burst of unease this weekend and moved it a little to the side, out of the way of the plants behind.
I found 30cm+ long roots 😱 but they were bone-white. That should be a good sign.
The bottom line is that now I won't be sure if whatever changes with that plant was due to the micros or the move.
The red devils survived their quarantine and are now in the main tank, looking right at home.
No plans for further changes, I'll try and keep things stable for a while.
I found someone willing to rehome my SAEs, so this weekend I went to war. I won a few battles, the SAEs won others, but in the end they were all in the bucket.
Now I see a few ways this may turn out.
If there is an increase in algae other than GSA, I'll feel very dumb for getting rid of the SAEs, since it will be clear that they were the reason for me not having issues so far;
If my plants and mosses keep being eaten, I'll feel sad for giving away my SAEs when they weren't the problem.
However, if the Staurogyne stop being eaten and if I add moss and it survives, it will be a relief to know that I finally found the offenders.
On a different subject, my newest plant addition, which I thought was Eusteralis verticillata but now I think is Ludwigia inclinata, is doing a little too well, they developed a much larger diameter than I expected... Anyways, better large than dead.
My Althernantheras, on the other hand, are looking as miserable as ever. I saw some improvement when I switched to urea, but they went back to being pitiful. I'm wondering if I should buy new stems, or maybe give up on them.
What I need to do is pick up the courage to hack down the bolbitis. It was only when deep searching for hidden SAEs that I noticed how they took over the central part of the tank. They are taking so much space...
A while ago a colleague gave me some stems, including wallichiis. They quickly withered despite looking really healthy when I got them. One stem, however, spawned a single side shoot, which I isolated on a hanging glass cup, and now it is starting to look like it adapted. There are a couple more side shoots as well, so yay. Back then he also gave me Rotala H'ra stems and curiously they survived and now they look exactly the same as my unknown rotalas. But I'm pretty sure mine aren't H'ra because when I bought them, I distinctively remember also buying H'ra and the H'ra died. So either I really can't tell plants apart, or my colleague was tricked...
I did a small tech upgrade too. For a while I've been unhappy with the heater in my Oase Biomaster Thermo canister. We are having some cold days, and despite having the setting at 72°F, I would often find the tank at 28°C early in the morning after a cold night. It was as if the trigger wouldn't turn off after starting. Even worse, the high temperature would keep the fan on, which turned my tank into an evaporating machine, burning precious electricity. So I bought a cheap heater/cooler thermostat with a probe, and now it is controlling the Biomaster heater and the cooling fan. It looks precise enough and now I'm sure it will never turn the heater and the cooling at the same time.
Finally, I decided to slowly reduce phosphate dosing on the upcoming macro remixes. The idea is to keep potassium as is, so that means increasing KNO3 a bit and reducing Urea a bit. There was one comment which kept filling me with doubts regarding my dosing choices, so now I'll act upon them hehe
Now I see a few ways this may turn out.
If there is an increase in algae other than GSA, I'll feel very dumb for getting rid of the SAEs, since it will be clear that they were the reason for me not having issues so far;
If my plants and mosses keep being eaten, I'll feel sad for giving away my SAEs when they weren't the problem.
However, if the Staurogyne stop being eaten and if I add moss and it survives, it will be a relief to know that I finally found the offenders.
On a different subject, my newest plant addition, which I thought was Eusteralis verticillata but now I think is Ludwigia inclinata, is doing a little too well, they developed a much larger diameter than I expected... Anyways, better large than dead.
My Althernantheras, on the other hand, are looking as miserable as ever. I saw some improvement when I switched to urea, but they went back to being pitiful. I'm wondering if I should buy new stems, or maybe give up on them.
What I need to do is pick up the courage to hack down the bolbitis. It was only when deep searching for hidden SAEs that I noticed how they took over the central part of the tank. They are taking so much space...
A while ago a colleague gave me some stems, including wallichiis. They quickly withered despite looking really healthy when I got them. One stem, however, spawned a single side shoot, which I isolated on a hanging glass cup, and now it is starting to look like it adapted. There are a couple more side shoots as well, so yay. Back then he also gave me Rotala H'ra stems and curiously they survived and now they look exactly the same as my unknown rotalas. But I'm pretty sure mine aren't H'ra because when I bought them, I distinctively remember also buying H'ra and the H'ra died. So either I really can't tell plants apart, or my colleague was tricked...
I did a small tech upgrade too. For a while I've been unhappy with the heater in my Oase Biomaster Thermo canister. We are having some cold days, and despite having the setting at 72°F, I would often find the tank at 28°C early in the morning after a cold night. It was as if the trigger wouldn't turn off after starting. Even worse, the high temperature would keep the fan on, which turned my tank into an evaporating machine, burning precious electricity. So I bought a cheap heater/cooler thermostat with a probe, and now it is controlling the Biomaster heater and the cooling fan. It looks precise enough and now I'm sure it will never turn the heater and the cooling at the same time.
Finally, I decided to slowly reduce phosphate dosing on the upcoming macro remixes. The idea is to keep potassium as is, so that means increasing KNO3 a bit and reducing Urea a bit. There was one comment which kept filling me with doubts regarding my dosing choices, so now I'll act upon them hehe
Thats a lot of phosphateTypo?
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After almost 2 weeks without SAEs, there has been no algae related change. However, to my surprise, my small Riccia fluitans bush almost trippled in size. Considering that it has been "stunted" for many months and I was about to give up on it, it is some serious evidence against the SAE I had. I suspected they were related to the moss fiasco, but it didn't occur to me they were eating the Riccia. So far, no new Staurogyne leaves were found eaten, and they are starting to look like something that is more alive than dead.
Up until recent times, I used to have terrible luck in adding new plants, especially stem plants. Recently, though, as I said in my post above, the wallichii and the H'ra decided to join the realm of the living after being considered gone, the L. inclinata verticillata is gorgeous and I bought L. glandulosa and L. inclinata green (which arrived in a pitiful condition), and they are all adapting well from their emersed condition. So my recent changes must have led me down a better path.
This weekend I decided to show the bolbitis who runs this place. It wasn't pretty, but now it is mostly gone from the stems side of the tank. The nymphaea, which started this tank very politely, with pretty smaller leaves, is now growing too large once again. I'm trimming maybe 5 leaves a week... I was going to get rid of the miserable looking A. reineckii, the L. glandulosa was supposed to replace it, but I found two stems which looked like they still had some fight in them, so I left only those 2. One of them is growing too fast to the surface though, I think I'll just remove it as well, I need the space. The valisneria also needs to go, it isn't adding anything and the Crypto balansae already fill my quota of oversized long leaves which need to be trimmed all the time.
The plant collector in me hates getting rid of plants, but it's a relief once they are gone.
I'm still having issues with GSA on plants... not sure how to address this. Also, now that most plants are actually growing, it's become a concern that they are growing too fast. I'm thinking about ways to slow things down a bit. The first step will be to reduce phosphate. Maybe I'll have to remix my macros before this batch is over, I have many more weeks worth of macros mixed already...
Regarding the plateau war, after the devastating blow on the Staurogyne, with the being eaten thing going on, the pinnatifida are taking over. But the GSA isn't making it easy for them. Exciting times to be alive. With the SAE gone, will the Staurogyne find their mojo once more? And I can see the other carpeting plants just waiting for an opportunity to make their move.
Oh, and this time I have some photos, mostly on the stems side. I haven't been investing much thought on the other side for now.
Bellow, the new inclinata green, I'm hoping it will fill up this area and hide the bottom part of the rotala bush...
Blyxxa is also growing much faster than before, I already gave away 4 stems and it still looks huge... it is now squeezing against the front glass, something needs to be done.
wallichii var phoenix, reborn from the ashes. In the bottom corner, the H'ra, which also suffered its fair share to survive in my tank.
verticillata adapted in a heart beat... Already replanted the top twice
Up until recent times, I used to have terrible luck in adding new plants, especially stem plants. Recently, though, as I said in my post above, the wallichii and the H'ra decided to join the realm of the living after being considered gone, the L. inclinata verticillata is gorgeous and I bought L. glandulosa and L. inclinata green (which arrived in a pitiful condition), and they are all adapting well from their emersed condition. So my recent changes must have led me down a better path.
This weekend I decided to show the bolbitis who runs this place. It wasn't pretty, but now it is mostly gone from the stems side of the tank. The nymphaea, which started this tank very politely, with pretty smaller leaves, is now growing too large once again. I'm trimming maybe 5 leaves a week... I was going to get rid of the miserable looking A. reineckii, the L. glandulosa was supposed to replace it, but I found two stems which looked like they still had some fight in them, so I left only those 2. One of them is growing too fast to the surface though, I think I'll just remove it as well, I need the space. The valisneria also needs to go, it isn't adding anything and the Crypto balansae already fill my quota of oversized long leaves which need to be trimmed all the time.
The plant collector in me hates getting rid of plants, but it's a relief once they are gone.
I'm still having issues with GSA on plants... not sure how to address this. Also, now that most plants are actually growing, it's become a concern that they are growing too fast. I'm thinking about ways to slow things down a bit. The first step will be to reduce phosphate. Maybe I'll have to remix my macros before this batch is over, I have many more weeks worth of macros mixed already...
Regarding the plateau war, after the devastating blow on the Staurogyne, with the being eaten thing going on, the pinnatifida are taking over. But the GSA isn't making it easy for them. Exciting times to be alive. With the SAE gone, will the Staurogyne find their mojo once more? And I can see the other carpeting plants just waiting for an opportunity to make their move.
Oh, and this time I have some photos, mostly on the stems side. I haven't been investing much thought on the other side for now.
Bellow, the new inclinata green, I'm hoping it will fill up this area and hide the bottom part of the rotala bush...
Blyxxa is also growing much faster than before, I already gave away 4 stems and it still looks huge... it is now squeezing against the front glass, something needs to be done.
wallichii var phoenix, reborn from the ashes. In the bottom corner, the H'ra, which also suffered its fair share to survive in my tank.
verticillata adapted in a heart beat... Already replanted the top twice
Attachments
Glad to hear the SAE situation worked out 
Looks like things are on the up and up 😄
A minor thing, do the centers of the Blyxa look pale in real life too? It can be a good indicator plant, and it usually shows beginning chlorosis like this
Looks like things are on the up and up 😄
A minor thing, do the centers of the Blyxa look pale in real life too? It can be a good indicator plant, and it usually shows beginning chlorosis like this
1 month and 5 days ago, I wrote the the Microsorums were looking good, maybe for the first time. Yesterday, during water change, I found them all dying. All the leaves had necrotic patches. I removed the ones which were dismantling and left the rest, but it looks like they will all need to be replaced... Very disappointing.
Looking through my posts in here, the only change since then was the return of the micros, but at 1/3 of the original dose, which was already lean... So probably not that. And also reduced the temperature a bit, but I suppose my reduced temperature of 25.5°C* is still considered high for many of you. The temperature gets a * because, honestly, who knows what the temperature actually is without a properly calibrated thermometer? Not me.
The Microsorums are crammed in a corner, mostly because I like them but had no place for them in my layout. I noticed it was particularly dirty in there, so I removed them and did a good vacuuming before returning them. I'll add their corner to my maintenance routine and keep a close watch. Hopefully that does it.
This weekend I had more aquarium time, so I did some changes. I removed the valisneria, at least all the runners that I could find. I also removed all but 2 of the C. balansae, and moved those 2 to the center of the tank, where they can be huge with the already huge bolbitis. With this change and also the removal of almost all the Althernanteras from last week, I suddenly had a considerable amount of space at the stems side, and since I needed to trim most of the rotalas, I dug them all out and replanted the tops in a slightly different arrangement. There is some free space now, but I'll wait for my new plants to grow a bit to see if there will really be some free space then.
Also this weekend I was introduced to a brand new in vitro plants supplier around here. Exciting times. They created a line of plants with only plants that weren't available through our other in vitro supplier. I met the owner and complained that we don't have rotala blood red, don't have toninas, Ludwigia meta, Ammania golden... all the plants the cool kids have. He told me where I can go pick toninas myself 🙄
I raised the light intensity a bit on the plateau side. It was weird to have half the tank darker than the other. Also, I don't think my lights are particularly strong. Maybe it was a bad idea, considering that I noticed an increase in green spot and in black spot algae. I'll see. I'm also planning on remixing the macros this week to have the reduced phosphate dose ready for the next water change. There is very little algae on hardscape and I only get them on particular plants, so maybe they are the problem? The black spots in particular are disturbing, they apparently make the anubia leaves to curl. Or they attack leaves that curled for other reasons... but they aren't born curled, it happens after they age. It also attacks the marsilia. The green spots attack mostly the anubias and the pinnatifida.
It's hard to look at them from the top, because when I open the cover, that part of the tank gets dark... I tried taking a picture, and what I got from the precarious arrangement of positioning my phone inside with the cover closed was this
My first impression is that they seriously need some combing... And that there are all shades of green in there. This week I dosed a little more iron, but I fear that I'll only get a better result after reducing the phophates, the high concentration is probably forcing some Fe into precipitating.
I forgot to mention, when talking to this guy who is related to the new in vitro plants brand, and who also is some sort of local aquascaping celebrity who participates in contests and all that, he gave me some odd advice.
I asked him about my Althernanteras, which are always in a range between pitiful and meh. First he told me to raise my GH to at least 10. Then he told me to add boric acid from the pharmacy. To start from 5ml/100L and eventually get to 10ml/100L. I didn't check what the concentration from B we get from pharmacy boric acid, but that sounded like a lot.
Then I remembered @_Maq_ 's quote from his journal:
I asked him about my Althernanteras, which are always in a range between pitiful and meh. First he told me to raise my GH to at least 10. Then he told me to add boric acid from the pharmacy. To start from 5ml/100L and eventually get to 10ml/100L. I didn't check what the concentration from B we get from pharmacy boric acid, but that sounded like a lot.
Then I remembered @_Maq_ 's quote from his journal:
And somehow both his advices sounded pretty odd... any comments on this?
I kind of crashed into @Hufsa 's journal, since she was talking about increasing Boron, and she gave me plenty of advice. But we all know that her journal doesn't need any extra pages for tanks that aren't even hers, so I'll try and pull the conversation back to this thread.
Basically, after some local sub celebrity suggested that I boost B in my tank, like he does to his, I did some research to get a glimpse at what this boron thing is about.
My google-fu didn't find anything more scientific regarding B for aquatic plants, so I went with standard pages with their random opinions on stuff. Basically, boron is important, but there is no consensus if and how to know if we need more or less, as it is known for its toxicity and wide range of conflicting symptoms for both insufficiency and excess.
One source associated it to the plant's abilities to absorb Fe and Ca (and everything else). This got my eyes shining, since I've had Ca deficiency symptoms since forever, especially on Althernantheras. And I've been doing the Iron dance of chelators for a while now, with no noticeable improvement. After Hufsa questioned this information, I tried to look deeper into it, but could only find this one guy saying this, no one else. Aquatic plants fertilizer - Aquascaping - Aquatic plants - Aqua Rebel
There is a widespread information saying that boron levels in surface fresh water is usually found in the range between 0.1 and 0.5ppm. My commercial micro mix adds 0.01ppm at recommended dosage. That raised a red flag for me. Hufsa astutely warned me that our plants are special snowflakes that not necessarily care about what is common in nature (not her actual words). Even then, I have to start from somewhere, and this looked promising.
As a final noteworthy point from my research, I found a thesis paper where the researcher studied long term effects of B toxicity in emersed river plants, looking at pollution containing techniques. They did a bunch of 1 year long tests on a few selected river plants to see how B would affect germination, plant density, growth and that sort of things. What caught my attention was that the lowest B concentration tested was 12.6ppm in water. And not all plants displayed any issues at that level, only at the following higher concentrations.
All things considered, my sub celebrity acquaintance recommended 5 to 10ml of pharmacy available boric acid (which I found to be a 3% solution) per 100L. This would add, if my math is right, from 0.26 to .52ppm. Caution led me to start with 5ml for my tank, with 300L of water (as a simplification), giving me something just under 0.09ppm. With theoretical accumulation, this would reach almost 0.18ppm. I added the first dose this Thursday and yesterday I did my weekly water change and dosed 5ml again. Haven't noticed any change so far.
********
Moving past this boron thing, Hufsa raised important points and gave meaningful advice on my experiment strategy. Basically, she thinks I do too many experiments, too fast, too broad, and I won't be able to properly understand what my results are. And she is absolutely right. However, my reasoning is that I have been doing subtle tests for a very long time now. This tank is 3 years old (there was this rebuilding almost one year ago) and I had a smaller tank before that with most of the same persisting issues. From the start I tried about everything my research would indicate may be important. They were long, proper tests, waiting weeks to see results, but the results never came. Worse, even, I rarely notice any difference at all. This is one point where Hufsa and I differ. She can hear her plant's complaints loud and clear, while I think I'm mostly deaf to them. I change, change, change and don't see anything. This is why I moved onto more drastic changes, I want to see something happen! As an example, over a few steps I reduced K dosing from 18ppm to 3ppm and I can't say if the plants even noticed...
Hufsa said she sees chlorosis all around in my tank. Well, I have done a lot of iron experiments and nothing happens, plants stay the same. And I shouldn't have so many iron issues considering my water is so soft. At some point, I was dosing gluconate twice a day, adding up to 0.6ppm a week. The only test I can't perform is DTPA, I can't find it for sale.
There was this crypto which changed its color pattern recently, when I stopped dosing micros (except Fe). I have since resumed micros dosage, although not at the same levels as before, and the crypto still looks weird, although apparently it is still growing as large and fast as before. Other than that, my recurring issues are Althernanteras with corkscrew leaves, a few selected plants get massive GSA and BSA on their old leaves, and most plants take a very large plunge when adapting to my tank, and many didn't survive to see a better day.
This is also one thing that gets in the way of my tests, I seem to get much more meaningful results from plants due to them adapting themselves to my tank, then I get from trying to change things to fix something. A few plants that at first were basically dead are now seemingly unkillable and I don't think it is anything that I did.
***********
Now back to more journal related subjects, I have this B test going on and as of this weekend I started my long planned reduction on phosphates. They were brought up to 4ppm weekly a long time ago to try and fight GSA. There was noticeable improvement, especially on hardscape, but not so much on the plants which are affected. My new macro mix reduced the dose to 2.5ppm weekly. In order to keep the K levels the same, I increased KNO3. As a last minute change, I decided to reduce N dose slightly, since it was now sticking out after I reduced K and P... Reduced from something like 14.5 ppm of NO3 equivalent to 12 ppm of NO3 equivalent. Most of that comes from urea.
As for the SAE episode, apparently we are due for a happy end. I've had no more eaten plants, I added some sorry looking moss strands that I had surviving in a forgotten corner of the house and they are still there. As an unexpected corollary, the Riccia is growing once more, maybe a little too much. The Staurogyne are quickly recovering, their leaves are still small, but flawlessly intact. I took this picture during water change:
These are from the newcomer, L. inclinata green. I don't know what they are supposed to look like, but maybe it is one more on the chlorotic train... At least it is not dying, far from it.
Full tank pics, taken at night when the reflections are manageable but the finnex lights are already dimmed. I tried with and without the chinese indoor lamps, so it is either dark or distorted colors, up to you!
Basically, after some local sub celebrity suggested that I boost B in my tank, like he does to his, I did some research to get a glimpse at what this boron thing is about.
My google-fu didn't find anything more scientific regarding B for aquatic plants, so I went with standard pages with their random opinions on stuff. Basically, boron is important, but there is no consensus if and how to know if we need more or less, as it is known for its toxicity and wide range of conflicting symptoms for both insufficiency and excess.
One source associated it to the plant's abilities to absorb Fe and Ca (and everything else). This got my eyes shining, since I've had Ca deficiency symptoms since forever, especially on Althernantheras. And I've been doing the Iron dance of chelators for a while now, with no noticeable improvement. After Hufsa questioned this information, I tried to look deeper into it, but could only find this one guy saying this, no one else. Aquatic plants fertilizer - Aquascaping - Aquatic plants - Aqua Rebel
There is a widespread information saying that boron levels in surface fresh water is usually found in the range between 0.1 and 0.5ppm. My commercial micro mix adds 0.01ppm at recommended dosage. That raised a red flag for me. Hufsa astutely warned me that our plants are special snowflakes that not necessarily care about what is common in nature (not her actual words). Even then, I have to start from somewhere, and this looked promising.
As a final noteworthy point from my research, I found a thesis paper where the researcher studied long term effects of B toxicity in emersed river plants, looking at pollution containing techniques. They did a bunch of 1 year long tests on a few selected river plants to see how B would affect germination, plant density, growth and that sort of things. What caught my attention was that the lowest B concentration tested was 12.6ppm in water. And not all plants displayed any issues at that level, only at the following higher concentrations.
All things considered, my sub celebrity acquaintance recommended 5 to 10ml of pharmacy available boric acid (which I found to be a 3% solution) per 100L. This would add, if my math is right, from 0.26 to .52ppm. Caution led me to start with 5ml for my tank, with 300L of water (as a simplification), giving me something just under 0.09ppm. With theoretical accumulation, this would reach almost 0.18ppm. I added the first dose this Thursday and yesterday I did my weekly water change and dosed 5ml again. Haven't noticed any change so far.
********
Moving past this boron thing, Hufsa raised important points and gave meaningful advice on my experiment strategy. Basically, she thinks I do too many experiments, too fast, too broad, and I won't be able to properly understand what my results are. And she is absolutely right. However, my reasoning is that I have been doing subtle tests for a very long time now. This tank is 3 years old (there was this rebuilding almost one year ago) and I had a smaller tank before that with most of the same persisting issues. From the start I tried about everything my research would indicate may be important. They were long, proper tests, waiting weeks to see results, but the results never came. Worse, even, I rarely notice any difference at all. This is one point where Hufsa and I differ. She can hear her plant's complaints loud and clear, while I think I'm mostly deaf to them. I change, change, change and don't see anything. This is why I moved onto more drastic changes, I want to see something happen! As an example, over a few steps I reduced K dosing from 18ppm to 3ppm and I can't say if the plants even noticed...
Hufsa said she sees chlorosis all around in my tank. Well, I have done a lot of iron experiments and nothing happens, plants stay the same. And I shouldn't have so many iron issues considering my water is so soft. At some point, I was dosing gluconate twice a day, adding up to 0.6ppm a week. The only test I can't perform is DTPA, I can't find it for sale.
There was this crypto which changed its color pattern recently, when I stopped dosing micros (except Fe). I have since resumed micros dosage, although not at the same levels as before, and the crypto still looks weird, although apparently it is still growing as large and fast as before. Other than that, my recurring issues are Althernanteras with corkscrew leaves, a few selected plants get massive GSA and BSA on their old leaves, and most plants take a very large plunge when adapting to my tank, and many didn't survive to see a better day.
This is also one thing that gets in the way of my tests, I seem to get much more meaningful results from plants due to them adapting themselves to my tank, then I get from trying to change things to fix something. A few plants that at first were basically dead are now seemingly unkillable and I don't think it is anything that I did.
***********
Now back to more journal related subjects, I have this B test going on and as of this weekend I started my long planned reduction on phosphates. They were brought up to 4ppm weekly a long time ago to try and fight GSA. There was noticeable improvement, especially on hardscape, but not so much on the plants which are affected. My new macro mix reduced the dose to 2.5ppm weekly. In order to keep the K levels the same, I increased KNO3. As a last minute change, I decided to reduce N dose slightly, since it was now sticking out after I reduced K and P... Reduced from something like 14.5 ppm of NO3 equivalent to 12 ppm of NO3 equivalent. Most of that comes from urea.
As for the SAE episode, apparently we are due for a happy end. I've had no more eaten plants, I added some sorry looking moss strands that I had surviving in a forgotten corner of the house and they are still there. As an unexpected corollary, the Riccia is growing once more, maybe a little too much. The Staurogyne are quickly recovering, their leaves are still small, but flawlessly intact. I took this picture during water change:
These are from the newcomer, L. inclinata green. I don't know what they are supposed to look like, but maybe it is one more on the chlorotic train... At least it is not dying, far from it.
Full tank pics, taken at night when the reflections are manageable but the finnex lights are already dimmed. I tried with and without the chinese indoor lamps, so it is either dark or distorted colors, up to you!
Love the comprehensive update!
Maybe I could look over your parameters and dosing and perhaps suggest any tweaks if thats something you're interested in?
Boric acid is a good source of boron, so as long as you stay in the non toxic range then you may see improved plant growth if this has been an issue in your tank so far 😃
One thing that is a little bit problematic with raising just one nutrient is that if the rest are
far behind, you will end up playing "nutrient whack-a-mole" all the way down the order of Liebig's law of limiting. In other words, if Boron was an issue and you fix it, the previously second worst issue will now become much more prominent, and then if you fix the second worst issue theres the third worst issue.. and it's generally a very slow and annoying process to do all of these individually. This is why when I raised B in my micro mix, I also raised Zn because these two are pretty close buddies "amount wise". So while I didn't suspect Zn was a big issue right at that moment, it made sense to bring it along.
I hope I didn't come across as a party pooper in my other post 😃 I know its hard with the changes, and sometimes you do have to make them to improve things. Its really all about finding the right amount and sorting the most important things first 😊
Maybe I could look over your parameters and dosing and perhaps suggest any tweaks if thats something you're interested in?
Boric acid is a good source of boron, so as long as you stay in the non toxic range then you may see improved plant growth if this has been an issue in your tank so far 😃
One thing that is a little bit problematic with raising just one nutrient is that if the rest are
far behind, you will end up playing "nutrient whack-a-mole" all the way down the order of Liebig's law of limiting. In other words, if Boron was an issue and you fix it, the previously second worst issue will now become much more prominent, and then if you fix the second worst issue theres the third worst issue.. and it's generally a very slow and annoying process to do all of these individually. This is why when I raised B in my micro mix, I also raised Zn because these two are pretty close buddies "amount wise". So while I didn't suspect Zn was a big issue right at that moment, it made sense to bring it along.
I hope I didn't come across as a party pooper in my other post 😃 I know its hard with the changes, and sometimes you do have to make them to improve things. Its really all about finding the right amount and sorting the most important things first 😊
So far, nothing changed regarding the Boron and phosphate things. I have noticed the smallest of green thread algae tuffs spawning on the wood, so there will still be a chance to regret the SAE thing.
I bought a few new plants. I decided to remove all the zosterifolias, they are growing too large and disorderly. In its place, I'll try to keep a short bush of Oldenlandia salzmannii. Hopefully it grows to form a delicate bush, I don't really know what it looks like.
I also got Proserpinaca palustris and Mayaca longipes to add to my stems corner of the tank. After removing the Althernantheras and the the balansae, I got some extra space. Hopefully my luck continues and they all survive.
I also got some Phyllanthus fluitans. At some point, if things stabilize, I plan on slowly reducing nitrogen to move towards a leaner dosing regime. If these floating plants survive, they may work as indicators.
To my surprise, the floating plant came as an emerged plant... I didn't know this was a thing. Now I have to imerge a floating plant, which sounds weird to me. I just threw it all in there, hopefully it knows what it is doing.
Tomorrow will be water change day, so I'll try and plant everything.
I bought a few new plants. I decided to remove all the zosterifolias, they are growing too large and disorderly. In its place, I'll try to keep a short bush of Oldenlandia salzmannii. Hopefully it grows to form a delicate bush, I don't really know what it looks like.
I also got Proserpinaca palustris and Mayaca longipes to add to my stems corner of the tank. After removing the Althernantheras and the the balansae, I got some extra space. Hopefully my luck continues and they all survive.
I also got some Phyllanthus fluitans. At some point, if things stabilize, I plan on slowly reducing nitrogen to move towards a leaner dosing regime. If these floating plants survive, they may work as indicators.
To my surprise, the floating plant came as an emerged plant... I didn't know this was a thing. Now I have to imerge a floating plant, which sounds weird to me. I just threw it all in there, hopefully it knows what it is doing.
Tomorrow will be water change day, so I'll try and plant everything.
A small update, mostly to keep the proper chronology of the events.
I have noticed what may be initial growth of BBA on the wood pieces. There have been a few changes to the tank, but if they turn out to be BBA really growing in the hardscape, I'll associate it with the removal of the SAEs. After some thought, I decided that it is not past me to buy new young SAEs and hope that they are not the plant eating type this time. I'll just wait a bit more to make sure this BBA growth actually evolves into something more worrisome.
I forgot to mention, but since last week my Echinodorus parviflorus has put out a flower stem. This had only happened once, two years ago, so I wonder if it may be related to the Boron thing, or just a coincidence.
The new plants were planted Sunday during maintenance time and all seems right. I found an earthworm entangled with the mayaca roots and, despite the vase being inside the tank since Thursday, it was still kicking, so to speak. Onto a garden plant vase it went.
I took one more step into my secret plan to add cherry shrimps to the main tank. It has been a long goal to try to make this happen, so for the longest time I have been trying to breed shrimps adapted to my tank, using its water to do maintenance on the small shrimp tank. I've had my share of issues with the shrimps tank, but right now it looks to be thriving, so I picked a single shrimp and moved it to the main tank. I plan on moving one shrimp every week. If I ever see them again, I will see it as a sign that things went well. Two days later and the little fellow is still hidden, which is not a surprise given the plant density. Time will (maybe) tell.
I have noticed what may be initial growth of BBA on the wood pieces. There have been a few changes to the tank, but if they turn out to be BBA really growing in the hardscape, I'll associate it with the removal of the SAEs. After some thought, I decided that it is not past me to buy new young SAEs and hope that they are not the plant eating type this time. I'll just wait a bit more to make sure this BBA growth actually evolves into something more worrisome.
I forgot to mention, but since last week my Echinodorus parviflorus has put out a flower stem. This had only happened once, two years ago, so I wonder if it may be related to the Boron thing, or just a coincidence.
The new plants were planted Sunday during maintenance time and all seems right. I found an earthworm entangled with the mayaca roots and, despite the vase being inside the tank since Thursday, it was still kicking, so to speak. Onto a garden plant vase it went.
I took one more step into my secret plan to add cherry shrimps to the main tank. It has been a long goal to try to make this happen, so for the longest time I have been trying to breed shrimps adapted to my tank, using its water to do maintenance on the small shrimp tank. I've had my share of issues with the shrimps tank, but right now it looks to be thriving, so I picked a single shrimp and moved it to the main tank. I plan on moving one shrimp every week. If I ever see them again, I will see it as a sign that things went well. Two days later and the little fellow is still hidden, which is not a surprise given the plant density. Time will (maybe) tell.
Another small update.
Fertilization regime remains the same as before. After I'm happy that nothing bad happened due to the last changes, I plan on taking one more step into a leaner direction. When I get the chance to post from my own computer, where my fert spreadsheets are, I'll update the current values.
Phyllanthus fluitans and Oldenlandia salzmannii seem to be adapting well enough. Mayaca longipes gets a star for its apparent success in adapting so far, better than expected, they look as if they had always been there.
Proserpinaca palustris, on the other hand, started well but then took a turn for the worse and started melting. I think it didn't receive enough light to adapt, being surrounded by other stems. It is not a lost cause yet, but not looking great. I did some pruning on the other stems and it should have better light now. I did plant a couple of stems in my quarantine tank, where it gets good light, but there is considerably less CO2. One of them is looking OK, the other had its stem melt in the middle. I replanted the top that got detached, but in my experience this usually doesn't end well.
Ludiwigia glandulosa is now tall enough to be seen, and it looks good. L. inclinata green is looking OK, I had to trim it for the first time. But I'm still not completely convinced that it is happy. L. inclinata veticillata had at some point a couple of stems with very long leaves, forming a larger than expected diameter that looked like it would be difficult to form a layout with. They threw out many sideshoots, some of which I kept, and all the stems now have a smaller diameter, easier to work with. I don't know, however, if that is a bad sign from the point of view of the plant's health. This is where the ghost of the Boron uncertainty comes to play, does it have anything to do with the size of the stems? Or it is just part of the plant adaptation period, since it is a relatively new plant? Too many changes at once, so no deffinitive answers to be had. Wallichii is looking great, I now have many healthy looking stems and also had to trim them this week.
All this blah blah blah would be better off if there were some pics, but I don't have them 😕 I'll work on it.
On the plateau side of the tank, I trimmed the pinnatifida for the first time (removing whole stems, not only trimming the ones that grow tall). Also, the Staurogyne repens are definitely the winner of the plateau war of carpeting plants, they took over everything. The leaves are not as long as they once were, but they formed a very dense and impenetrable bush.
There are a few BBA bushes trying to form on the wood parts. Still keeping a close eye on them. I considered buying a Crossocheilus reticulatus, but apparently they aren't in any importer list, so completely unobtainable around here. I will probably get new SAE then, still thinking if I get 3 of them, more or less... And hope for the best.
Two more neocaridinas added. I even saw one of them one of these days.
I realized that I don't remember when was the last time that I cleaned the oase canister. I clean the pre-filter weekly, but at some point I'll have to go deeper. Considering the BBA menace lurking around, I plan on doing it this week, maybe tomorrow.
Fertilization regime remains the same as before. After I'm happy that nothing bad happened due to the last changes, I plan on taking one more step into a leaner direction. When I get the chance to post from my own computer, where my fert spreadsheets are, I'll update the current values.
Phyllanthus fluitans and Oldenlandia salzmannii seem to be adapting well enough. Mayaca longipes gets a star for its apparent success in adapting so far, better than expected, they look as if they had always been there.
Proserpinaca palustris, on the other hand, started well but then took a turn for the worse and started melting. I think it didn't receive enough light to adapt, being surrounded by other stems. It is not a lost cause yet, but not looking great. I did some pruning on the other stems and it should have better light now. I did plant a couple of stems in my quarantine tank, where it gets good light, but there is considerably less CO2. One of them is looking OK, the other had its stem melt in the middle. I replanted the top that got detached, but in my experience this usually doesn't end well.
Ludiwigia glandulosa is now tall enough to be seen, and it looks good. L. inclinata green is looking OK, I had to trim it for the first time. But I'm still not completely convinced that it is happy. L. inclinata veticillata had at some point a couple of stems with very long leaves, forming a larger than expected diameter that looked like it would be difficult to form a layout with. They threw out many sideshoots, some of which I kept, and all the stems now have a smaller diameter, easier to work with. I don't know, however, if that is a bad sign from the point of view of the plant's health. This is where the ghost of the Boron uncertainty comes to play, does it have anything to do with the size of the stems? Or it is just part of the plant adaptation period, since it is a relatively new plant? Too many changes at once, so no deffinitive answers to be had. Wallichii is looking great, I now have many healthy looking stems and also had to trim them this week.
All this blah blah blah would be better off if there were some pics, but I don't have them 😕 I'll work on it.
On the plateau side of the tank, I trimmed the pinnatifida for the first time (removing whole stems, not only trimming the ones that grow tall). Also, the Staurogyne repens are definitely the winner of the plateau war of carpeting plants, they took over everything. The leaves are not as long as they once were, but they formed a very dense and impenetrable bush.
There are a few BBA bushes trying to form on the wood parts. Still keeping a close eye on them. I considered buying a Crossocheilus reticulatus, but apparently they aren't in any importer list, so completely unobtainable around here. I will probably get new SAE then, still thinking if I get 3 of them, more or less... And hope for the best.
Two more neocaridinas added. I even saw one of them one of these days.
I realized that I don't remember when was the last time that I cleaned the oase canister. I clean the pre-filter weekly, but at some point I'll have to go deeper. Considering the BBA menace lurking around, I plan on doing it this week, maybe tomorrow.
Just to keep things registered... current dosing regime is as follows:
(all concentrations are referenced at the full tank net volume, except the Mg and Ca, which are referenced at the water volume that is changed)
Macro mix, front loaded, weekly:
K - 3 ppm
PO4 - 2.5 ppm
NO3 - 3.13 ppm (0.71 ppm N)
N (Urea) - 2,09 ppm weekly, dosed daily.
Frontload, weekly, referenced at the changed water volume:
Mg - 3.36 ppm
Ca - 11.84 ppm (assuming that the 3dGH I measure from tap water is calcium)
Micros mix, front loaded, weekly:
Fe - 0.025 ppm
Mn - 0.138 ppm
B - 0.003 ppm
Zn - 0.118 ppm
Cu - 0.003 ppm
Mo - 0.008 ppm
B - 0.09 ppm weekly, front loaded.
Fe EDDHA, roughly 0.1 ppm weekly, front loaded.
Fe gluconate, 0.27 ppm weekly, divided in 3 doses.
All of these doses may be slightly higher because I don't really know the actual water volume, with all the hardscape. My guess may have been slightly overestimated. Weekly water change is somewhere near 50% -- again, it is somewhat of a guess.
Future plans involve further reducing phosphates and gradually reduce Urea to reduce nitrogen. Onward to a leaner dosing regime!
As a note, this thing where I reference Ca and Mg based on the water changed and not the total tank water net volume was mostly because I was originally aiming at reaching a given GH, so I did the calculations like this to avoid any accumulation calculations. Since water changes are roughly 50%, I suppose one could just divide them by 2 to get the reference back to the full tank net volume and compare to the rest...
(all concentrations are referenced at the full tank net volume, except the Mg and Ca, which are referenced at the water volume that is changed)
Macro mix, front loaded, weekly:
K - 3 ppm
PO4 - 2.5 ppm
NO3 - 3.13 ppm (0.71 ppm N)
N (Urea) - 2,09 ppm weekly, dosed daily.
Frontload, weekly, referenced at the changed water volume:
Mg - 3.36 ppm
Ca - 11.84 ppm (assuming that the 3dGH I measure from tap water is calcium)
Micros mix, front loaded, weekly:
Fe - 0.025 ppm
Mn - 0.138 ppm
B - 0.003 ppm
Zn - 0.118 ppm
Cu - 0.003 ppm
Mo - 0.008 ppm
B - 0.09 ppm weekly, front loaded.
Fe EDDHA, roughly 0.1 ppm weekly, front loaded.
Fe gluconate, 0.27 ppm weekly, divided in 3 doses.
All of these doses may be slightly higher because I don't really know the actual water volume, with all the hardscape. My guess may have been slightly overestimated. Weekly water change is somewhere near 50% -- again, it is somewhat of a guess.
Future plans involve further reducing phosphates and gradually reduce Urea to reduce nitrogen. Onward to a leaner dosing regime!
As a note, this thing where I reference Ca and Mg based on the water changed and not the total tank water net volume was mostly because I was originally aiming at reaching a given GH, so I did the calculations like this to avoid any accumulation calculations. Since water changes are roughly 50%, I suppose one could just divide them by 2 to get the reference back to the full tank net volume and compare to the rest...
On July 4th I trimmed the L. inclinata green. It still had the emerged part of the stem, so I trimmed the adapted immersed bits and replanted them, discarding the bottom. In total, I replanted 4 stems. A 5th stem was left untrimmed, I don't really remember why, if it wasn't large enough or if I wanted to keep one untouched just in case.
As of today, the 4 trimmed stems are miserably stunted, while the untouched stem is looking great, although it is too large and needs to be trimmed.
So, what to do? Trim and replant and risk it stunting as well?
As of today, the 4 trimmed stems are miserably stunted, while the untouched stem is looking great, although it is too large and needs to be trimmed.
So, what to do? Trim and replant and risk it stunting as well?
After a few weeks testing this higher dose of Boron, and seeing how nothing really changed for the better, and to be on the cautious side of things, I halved the dose. It is still a lot compared to the trace amount that my micro mix adds, so whatever good it may cause will probably be available. That puts it at 0.045ppm weekly, front loaded.
I was out of home for a few days, which affected my urea dosing. So I decided to start the urea decrease I was planning, since it was already reduced due to the missed dosing days. Reduced ~20%, I don't have the exact number here with me.
Following this path to a leaner tomorrow that I have, it occurred to me that I may want to reduce CO2 at some point, as well. Still maturating this idea, as it may be more impactful...
Ever since I re-homed my 3 SAEs, I have been observing small appearances of BBA. May or may not be related, but the timing is suggestive. Some specific bolbitis leaves were getting multiple tuffs of the thing, and since I have been wanting to reduce the bolbitis volume in the tank, I trimmed all of those leaves. Curiously, they were some of the most healthy looking ones. Anyways, this weekend I added a single new young SAE. I thought that if the negative behavior (eating moss and plants) was something related to a few individuals and/or a SAE species among the indistinguishable few that supposedly are sold as the same thing, then having only one instead of a few would greatly reduce the odds of having another ill-behaved specimen. I did like the idea of keeping a group of them, but oh well...
Between adding new plants in the last months and me not being very diligent with the area each of them occupies, my tank was looking very crowded, too many stems crammed together, which probably didn't help the more fragile ones to adapt to the tank. This weekend I did a massive trimming section, but I also significantly reduced the number of stems of most species. And I intend to keep them better controlled, specially the L. inclinata verticillata which put out a lot of side shoots and I was kind of keeping most of them.
During this trim-fest, I got to think about how at some point I had only a small dying stem of wallichii, with a tiny healthy looking sideshoot sprouting, and now I had meters of the thing... I gave a bunch of good looking stems to a colleague. I also removed a lot of Blyxxa stems, but I didn't really trim them, so now they are looking a bit tall and not dense. I'll see how they grow back, but at some point I'll probably have to trim them. Finally, I mercilessly trimmed the Staurogyne. I removed so much... 5/6cm of the entire carpet and I think they may still be a bit tall. From what I could probe, it seems like the substrate in the plateau sunk into the stone structure, so the plants are much taller than they appear. This whole plateau thing was poorly executed, if I ever try it again, I'll need to be much more careful.
When I got the red root floaters, I was kind of soft with them, not wanting to risk losing them while they adapted. What this caused was a massive take-over and now I hit them hard. The original floating plant that I had, not sure what the name is, is also growing fast, so I decided that I'll only keep 4 of them and during maintenance I'll remove all the new sprouts until I'm back to the original 4. The red root floaters are a bit harder to count, but no more being soft with them. And finally, a third species appeared, maybe it came with the red roots and originally I thought it was just baby red roots, but now it is clear that they are different, much smaller. They look nice enough, so I'll keep them for now.
The Oldenlandia salzmannii are kind of weird, they aren't really rooting and, with all the cories and plecos, I keep finding them floating around. They are also not looking like what I imagined, the stems are long and the leaves small, it doesn't look dense, they don't seem to occupy their space. In retrospective, I think that I may have been thinking of monnieri compact when I bought them. Maybe I'll give up on them if they don't get a bit more orderly.
L. inclinata green, which was mostly stunted, are maybe slightly less stunted? They are growing tall still, but the leaves are much smaller than the one good looking stem that I have left. By the way, I also trimmed that one hard, it had maybe 30cm of stem length floating at the surface. But it looked glorious... Now I'll see if trimming it also makes it stunt or not.
The Mayaca has some good looking stems, but a bunch of them stunted or lost their tips... There were too many stems, so I got rid of the poor looking ones. I didn't want to mess with the good looking ones, so they are looking a bit tall now that most of the other stems got trimmed...
Finally, to start the photo dump, I have a buce that has always been looking very miserable, although it didn't melt. The leaves were small, twisted, with holes, and quickly got covered with the black spot algae that are also infesting my anubias. Recently it put out 2 better looking leaves. Hopefully they stay this way. Was it the Boron? For sure I'll never know.
Stunted inclinata green:
Oh, and the Java fern which was looking awful a while ago has put out some healthy looking leaves. I'll keep cleaning their rizomes every now and then.
I was out of home for a few days, which affected my urea dosing. So I decided to start the urea decrease I was planning, since it was already reduced due to the missed dosing days. Reduced ~20%, I don't have the exact number here with me.
Following this path to a leaner tomorrow that I have, it occurred to me that I may want to reduce CO2 at some point, as well. Still maturating this idea, as it may be more impactful...
Ever since I re-homed my 3 SAEs, I have been observing small appearances of BBA. May or may not be related, but the timing is suggestive. Some specific bolbitis leaves were getting multiple tuffs of the thing, and since I have been wanting to reduce the bolbitis volume in the tank, I trimmed all of those leaves. Curiously, they were some of the most healthy looking ones. Anyways, this weekend I added a single new young SAE. I thought that if the negative behavior (eating moss and plants) was something related to a few individuals and/or a SAE species among the indistinguishable few that supposedly are sold as the same thing, then having only one instead of a few would greatly reduce the odds of having another ill-behaved specimen. I did like the idea of keeping a group of them, but oh well...
Between adding new plants in the last months and me not being very diligent with the area each of them occupies, my tank was looking very crowded, too many stems crammed together, which probably didn't help the more fragile ones to adapt to the tank. This weekend I did a massive trimming section, but I also significantly reduced the number of stems of most species. And I intend to keep them better controlled, specially the L. inclinata verticillata which put out a lot of side shoots and I was kind of keeping most of them.
During this trim-fest, I got to think about how at some point I had only a small dying stem of wallichii, with a tiny healthy looking sideshoot sprouting, and now I had meters of the thing... I gave a bunch of good looking stems to a colleague. I also removed a lot of Blyxxa stems, but I didn't really trim them, so now they are looking a bit tall and not dense. I'll see how they grow back, but at some point I'll probably have to trim them. Finally, I mercilessly trimmed the Staurogyne. I removed so much... 5/6cm of the entire carpet and I think they may still be a bit tall. From what I could probe, it seems like the substrate in the plateau sunk into the stone structure, so the plants are much taller than they appear. This whole plateau thing was poorly executed, if I ever try it again, I'll need to be much more careful.
When I got the red root floaters, I was kind of soft with them, not wanting to risk losing them while they adapted. What this caused was a massive take-over and now I hit them hard. The original floating plant that I had, not sure what the name is, is also growing fast, so I decided that I'll only keep 4 of them and during maintenance I'll remove all the new sprouts until I'm back to the original 4. The red root floaters are a bit harder to count, but no more being soft with them. And finally, a third species appeared, maybe it came with the red roots and originally I thought it was just baby red roots, but now it is clear that they are different, much smaller. They look nice enough, so I'll keep them for now.
The Oldenlandia salzmannii are kind of weird, they aren't really rooting and, with all the cories and plecos, I keep finding them floating around. They are also not looking like what I imagined, the stems are long and the leaves small, it doesn't look dense, they don't seem to occupy their space. In retrospective, I think that I may have been thinking of monnieri compact when I bought them. Maybe I'll give up on them if they don't get a bit more orderly.
L. inclinata green, which was mostly stunted, are maybe slightly less stunted? They are growing tall still, but the leaves are much smaller than the one good looking stem that I have left. By the way, I also trimmed that one hard, it had maybe 30cm of stem length floating at the surface. But it looked glorious... Now I'll see if trimming it also makes it stunt or not.
The Mayaca has some good looking stems, but a bunch of them stunted or lost their tips... There were too many stems, so I got rid of the poor looking ones. I didn't want to mess with the good looking ones, so they are looking a bit tall now that most of the other stems got trimmed...
Finally, to start the photo dump, I have a buce that has always been looking very miserable, although it didn't melt. The leaves were small, twisted, with holes, and quickly got covered with the black spot algae that are also infesting my anubias. Recently it put out 2 better looking leaves. Hopefully they stay this way. Was it the Boron? For sure I'll never know.
Stunted inclinata green:
Oh, and the Java fern which was looking awful a while ago has put out some healthy looking leaves. I'll keep cleaning their rizomes every now and then.
