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Twinstar..what is it?

If it oxygenates the water then wouldn't it provide the same benefit with regards to fish even without surface agitation?

If it doesn't affect co2 levels but does provide extra oxygen for the fish then it might be a win win?
 
Kalum said:
If it oxygenates the water then wouldn't it provide the same benefit with regards to fish even without surface agitation?

If it doesn't affect co2 levels but does provide extra oxygen for the fish then it might be a win win?
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Yeah, in a nutshell I think that's exactly what it does. Increases o2 without bubbling off your gas. In fact it could be argued that it increases co2 I would say in so far as increased o2 improves bacterial action then increased co2 production by the bacteria and better performance out of the filter. A discussion I had once where it was said by very knowledgeable people that adding more o2 had the net result of producing more co2 than you would get from liquid carbon products.

Again, this can all be achieved by increasing water changes and better tank maintenance. The more crud there is in the tank the more oxygen is required to strip this out so a cleaner tank will have better o2 in it. The Twinstar or similar products I would say just give you a little hand in this.

If de-gassing your water over night is your game though that would be better achieved by surface agitation by either airstones or raising the outlet of your filter to create surface turbulence. Skimmers are quite good at this also but has the net result of losing co2 if kept running 24/7. Some people just run the skimmer over night if it is a separate pump like the eheim 350, obviously the ones designed to be part of the intake on your pipes run all the time and you may need to turn up co2 a little to accommodate this.

As long as you have a clear water surface free of scum getting co2 out the tanks generally isn't an issue. Getting it to stay in is more the worry. Co2 wants out of your tank as fast as it can. It leaps out of a bottle of pop the second you open it when its cold so imagine trying to get it do dissolve in tropical water.
 
If it is creating a reactive gas at the same time using "free radicals" as previously posted and destroying algae spores happy days. More 02, possibility of a better filtration activity, some co2 production and killing algae spores. I see this as a valid product to have in your arsenal in the planted hobby and probably why many people say they see an improvement rather than placebo. If your on top of your game you might not notice anything major but we're all busy people. Sometimes you just don't have the time to carry out maintenance as much as you'd like to so I'll take all the help I can get.
 
Trevor Pleco said:
Black or dark green would have looked much beter in a scaped tank instead of ghastly bright white wires all over the place...
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I completely agree with you, it just stands out from everything. I've been thinking about masking things off and taking a can of black spray to the diffuser then some heatshrink to the cable if it stays in long term.
 
Is the ,real,twinstar worth the money? Or is the chihiros as good. Dont know what to buy, there is a big price diffrents, i read somewhere the twinstar use platinum n the chihiros cheap black mash
 
I don't think there is really that much to choose between them. I suspect the Twinstar is probably more expensive mainly because the company has to recoup its R&D costs, not so much because of special coatings etc.
I also suspect that Chihiros have stood on Twinstar's shoulders and therefore do not have the same costs to recoup.
In terms of practicality I think that Chihiros is probably the better bet, at least in the UK, since replacement parts are easier and cheaper to come by.
 
I would agree with that, it's a bit like your gas and electric, at the end of the day it's the same net result out of both devices so it all comes down to how much you want to spend to get that gas. I would compare it to the numerous co2 diffusers out there, you can pay through the nose for one that says ADA on the box or you can stumble across one for a tenth of the money that's actually produces a finer mist.
 
Had a Chihiros Doctor 3 in 1 running for about 2 weeks now on a new tank and can't say i've noticed any difference with regards to algae (diatoms still bad). Plant growth is hard to judge until I give the tank time to stabilise and then try it without for a while. One thing that was noticeable was the water clarity, much improved even after a day of use. What that means in the big scheme of things i'm not sure...

Doesn't seem to make a difference with regards to oxygenating the water either as fish are still sensitive to the same levels of CO2 as before and no change in drop checker by the morning with it on or off
 
Kalum said:
Had a Chihiros Doctor 3 in 1 running for about 2 weeks now on a new tank and can't say i've noticed any difference with regards to algae (diatoms still bad). Plant growth is hard to judge until I give the tank time to stabilise and then try it without for a while. One thing that was noticeable was the water clarity, much improved even after a day of use. What that means in the big scheme of things i'm not sure...

Doesn't seem to make a difference with regards to oxygenating the water either as fish are still sensitive to the same levels of CO2 as before and no change in drop checker by the morning with it on or off
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Hiya mate, it's just a more effective oxygen generator than a standard airstone without sucking pollution into your tank from your living room. Any increase in oxygen in a tank has huge benefits. As the tank sits it builds up levels of organics from plant and fish waste which algae feed off, to break this down we use the helpful bacteria in the tank which need oxygen to convert the genk into nitrate which the plants feed off. The amount of oxygen required to break it down depends on the amount of genk but the more oxygen there is the more effective the bacteria are or the harder they can work the net result being some co2 is produced as a bi product of the bacterial action and clearer water which you are witnessing. The old skool method of achieving much the same thing is to change the water to remove organics giving the bacteria less work to do and maintaining healthy plants which themselves elevate o2 levels giving the same result as the doctor. Just look at it as a bit of a boost to what you're already trying to achieve rather than an instead of.

It shoudn't make much difference to co2 gassing off levels as unlike an airstone it doesn't create an upwards current as the o2 bubbles are so small it doesn't "drag" water with it however it may increase ph slightly as o2 is a positive H and you are effectively increasing the amount of it. There is also some apparent benefit of the gas it produces ripping apart algae and disease cells that initially come into contact with the "radicals" although this is well above my pay grade 😉 The algae already on the surfaces of plants and stones won't be affected by it but one assumes the spores going past the diffuser as the algae replicates should be. Overall increasing the o2 improves the situation, which this thing does.
 
AverageWhiteBloke said:
Hiya mate, it's just a more effective oxygen generator than a standard airstone without sucking pollution into your tank from your living room. Any increase in oxygen in a tank has huge benefits. As the tank sits it builds up levels of organics from plant and fish waste which algae feed off, to break this down we use the helpful bacteria in the tank which need oxygen to convert the genk into nitrate which the plants feed off. The amount of oxygen required to break it down depends on the amount of genk but the more oxygen there is the more effective the bacteria are or the harder they can work the net result being some co2 is produced as a bi product of the bacterial action and clearer water which you are witnessing. The old skool method of achieving much the same thing is to change the water to remove organics giving the bacteria less work to do and maintaining healthy plants which themselves elevate o2 levels giving the same result as the doctor. Just look at it as a bit of a boost to what you're already trying to achieve rather than an instead of.

It shoudn't make much difference to co2 gassing off levels as unlike an airstone it doesn't create an upwards current as the o2 bubbles are so small it doesn't "drag" water with it however it may increase ph slightly as o2 is a positive H and you are effectively increasing the amount of it. There is also some apparent benefit of the gas it produces ripping apart algae and disease cells that initially come into contact with the "radicals" although this is well above my pay grade 😉 The algae already on the surfaces of plants and stones won't be affected by it but one assumes the spores going past the diffuser as the algae replicates should be. Overall increasing the o2 improves the situation, which this thing does.
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Yeh that's the thinking behind me trying it out, if it proves to be even a small benefit to the tank in general when used additionally to the normal care given then its worth it, for £45 its not much of a gamble and its quieter than an air pump and stone

One thing I did expect was to be able to run a bit higher CO2 due to the additional oxygen but the fish still seem to have the same threshold

I've currently got it sitting under the outflow lily pipe but I did notice it said it shouldn't be near a strong current so might be better placed elsewhere, but this way it does circulate round the tank well
 
Kalum said:
I've currently got it sitting under the outflow lily pipe but I did notice it said it shouldn't be near a strong current so might be better placed elsewhere, but this way it does circulate round the tank well
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I would imagine the longer the bubbles are in suspension in the water the better as they have more time to fully dissolve so swirling around the tank rather than straight up and out would presumably be better the same as co2. I think I remember something like that being said in the blurb but it was nearly in English, I think it meant not having it close to the filter intake got a mention, I assume whatever its bacteria killing properties are it was suggesting the bubbles not getting dragged into the canister.

Not sure about the higher threshold of co2 if more o2 is present. Heard a lot of people say that fish can handle higher co2 if you have more 02 but not sure about the science behind that or how to quantify it. Blood carries oxygen and possibly co2, I would guess the levels would have to be in some kind of equilibrium so it stands to reason that if the fish has plenty of o2 in its blood it could handle more co2, maybe, I don't know.
 
AverageWhiteBloke said:
Not sure about the higher threshold of co2 if more o2 is present. Heard a lot of people say that fish can handle higher co2 if you have more 02 but not sure about the science behind that or how to quantify it. Blood carries oxygen and possibly co2, I would guess the levels would have to be in some kind of equilibrium so it stands to reason that if the fish has plenty of o2 in its blood it could handle more co2, maybe, I don't know.
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Blood [CO2] drives respiration in humans not Blood [O2] , I assume its the same in fish seeing that we are related in the distance past of evolution.
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I have a Chihiros and a Twinstar and the Chihiros creates more micro bubbles both running off Chihiros 3rd Gen mesh reactors ATM. I would advise the Chihiros easy.
 
I have the twinstar shrimp running in a 100 litre with 7 hours light a day and bubbles of 1 per sec CO2, ive zero algae and very healthy breeding crystal shrimp, even the difficult mosses are thriving
 
Has anybody tried these with a a close lid to to test 02 levels to see if it does actually oxygenate the water on it’s own as well? Would be a good indication to see if the reaction is as effective as they claim.
 
Something Fishy said:
I guess that’s a no? Lol
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I think the guy in the video I posted earlier on did mate if I remember right. Not sure if any of the forum members did although I'm not sure how reliable o2 tests would be unless somebody has a meter. I think it's pretty much a given that it will raise o2 levels, the clearer water etc is a good indication and there's no reason that now we have a fair understanding of how these things function that it wouldn't. A lot of the tanks I've seen them in generally have good surface agitation and co2 induced bubbling plants so I would guess through lit period the water is already super saturated anyway. They probably reap the benefits more through the dark and its ability to destroy algae cells. Would be nice for someone with a decent o2 meter to do a test just into some water with no plants or turbulence just to see what effect it does have.
 
I think that a lot of folks are saying its unnecessary in a way. With good maintenance, regular changes, surface agitation, plants producing oxygen to saturation point all can achieve the same thing bar the algae or possible bacteria sterilising effect but as with most things in the hobby some tech has been invented to make life easier if you don't mind a big white plastic thing on view in your tank. I was watching one of George's youtube vids from a new shop opening, can't remember which one off the top of my head now but I noticed that virtually every display tank in the shop had a Twinstar and eheim skimmer so if these things are snake oil they have a lot of in the know scapers fooled. I doubt that would be the case.
 
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