Twinstar..what is it?

[Andy Thurston]

This thread is crazy. It’s been a while but is there actually any real evidence to back the makers claims yet😂😂
Personally I think it’s a placebo effect where people use it and believe it works during the infant tank stage… however all the problems it claims to solve will subside as a tank matures😂

 

[bjkalley]

Ok guys, it has been more than 10 years since the first post, but I guess I found some answers.
Before, I thought twinstar / chihiros doctor work like an "H2O2 generator", similar to an ozon generator, and work by "burning" the spores of algae. I also saw the homemade versions, so I ordered some titanium mesh from Aliexpress and did it myself. When I bought a pH controller for my planted tank I bought it with both pH and ORP control capability so that I can measure ORP too. The homemade electrolysis device was awful in terms of efficiency and aesthetics yet it worked. I checked the water parameters quickly in a bowl and it reduced ORP considerably. I was shocked as I expected the opposite, both H2O2 and O3 are super oxidatives and boost ORP. I did some literature research and found relevant data from [ https://doi.org/10.1504/IJEP.2006.010464 ]. It is worth mentioning that I am a scientist myself, worked at prestigious universities on radiative heat transfer, having 20+ scientific publications, but not in this field.

Table 1 presents one of the dataset we have from the article. We can see ORP considerably reduced as I also observed in my trials. Another aspect that I could not measure is the presence of O3 and H2O2 which were found to be almost non-existent and very dilute, respectively. So the authors of the article asks "what is the connection between electrolysis and bacterial growth if it is not the production of oxidising disinfectants. As has been argued in other papers, a shift in ORP of the water (Carlson, 1991; Kimbrough et al., 1999; Kimbrough et al., 2000) may be responsible for suppressed bacterial growth."




I bought a chihirros unit and use it in my aquarium. Result are the same with the article. ORP down from 370 to -40 (yes minus). In the meantime cardinals, black mollies and bushynoses were and are doing good.

here is the video I recorded that shows orp is decreasing as chihiros works.

So what is going on? I think here, rather than oxygen, we should concentrate on hydrogen. Bottled hydrogenated waters are getting more and more attention from public, there are studies ( Hydrogen Water: Extra Healthy or a Hoax?—A Systematic Review - PMC ) show engouaging results for human health too but mechanisms are not still clear, yes... we know it from our aquariums.

Facts
1- It is not an ozone generator. Let's stop saying that for good.
2- It reduces ORP significantly.
3- Scientists working in this field show it reduces bacteria growth (of course the studies are on limited species).



Theories by scientists in the field
- The reduction of bacteria is due to low ORP. Although they show a correlation with ORP and bacteria growth

Theories by me:
- I think these devices are beneficial thanks to (at least) two effects. One is with low ORP, this is valid all around the aquarium. Another effect is more limited, around the device, this is why people see clearer rocks around it but not the opposite side of the aquarium. That side probably works like a UV, it attacks organic material. This is probably done by the limited H2O2 it produces (as we see from the article 0.6 + 0.2 mg/L) before they reduced quickly. That's why we should not put this device close to filter intake so that it can reach and harm filter bacteria.

Kind regards,

 

[Connswater]

Thanks for this thread and post today. I have tried one of the devices, and never had algae actually grow on the mesh nor on the plastic holding ring, but certainly on the electricity supply cable. It may have helped reduce green algae but I was not sure. The tank at one point had BBA despite the presence of the machine but the outbreak was distant from the mesh output. In harder water the mesh quickly was coated and had to be descaled to maintain the production of small mist like bubbles, and repeated descaling destroyed the mesh over a few months.

I am not a scientist - obvious I fear!

The first link in the most recent doesn't take me to anything other than Insider Science On-line 'page not found'.

ORP - oxidation reduction potential? Is a higher reading not sanitising? Though oxidation is part of the process of ageing and in an aquarium loss of key plant micro nutrients in a form in which they can be utilised by plants, but of course BOD, is a fish keeper's obsession.

Sorry I only skim read the link to the piece on Hydrogen water - like many things I've read on statistical health benefits it seemed to be peppered with phrases along the lines of 'has been linked to'.

I remain sceptical but largely out of scientific confusion and lack of personal evidence from experience. Contrast with my UV system on my pond, which clears green water within a week and keeps the small goldfish pond clear during the growing season. Likewise UV sterilisation on my aquarium filter output, if the bulb fails my black mollies start to show skin issues within a week to two weeks. Replace the bulb and within a week they are back to jet black health. Or by way of another example of clear evidence of cause and effect, if my ball valve intake to my external filter blocks, within a day in hot weather I will observe gasping fish, turn a pump and air stone on, and within a few hours the fish are back to normal - simply cleaning the filter intake has a slower impact but over 24 hours fish return to normal.

I would also say that for a green algae out break caused by phosphate excess, say above 5 ppm, in my experience water changes with low phosphate water or the use of a phosphate absorbing material will have a clear noticeable impact within a fortnight.

I have no experience of such a clear cause and effect with an electrolysis device, but of course that does not mean there is not an unobserved, by me, beneficial effect.