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Thoughts on spraybar direction

Costa said:
Thank you @Andrew Butler and @ceg4048

Do you have a needle pump to recommend and advise on how to plug in my co2 outlet (if different to what @foxfish showed)?
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I agree with foxfish.
As far as available pumps I'm a bit out of touch with the UK market.
Have a look at this website https://www.aquacave.com/water-pumps-powerheads/protein-skimmer-pumps.html which is an American site but it's just to show the vendors that make high quality pumps. Sicce and Reef Octopus are Italian brands so they should be available in Europe.

Definitely, whichever brand you choose, get the smallest. You don't want a strong pump because that is not the most effective.
The idea is to keep the CO2 bubles within the pinwheel for as long as possible. The more frequently the pins make contact with the bubbles, the finer the bubbles are chopped up.
If you use a strong pump with a high turnover rating the bubbles does not spend as much time in the chamber before being spat out, so they won't be as fine.
Also when looking at price, make sure that the pump assembly is sold with a "Volute" (or you may need to buy it separately).
The Volute is the cylinder that has a spud where you can attach the CO2 line.
The Volute attaches to the skimmer pump inlet and typically looks something like this:
vol_1_250x250.jpg

Also, to address the question regarding noise, really there is little to no noise associated with the skimmer pump. The pump design is exactly the same as typical return pumps. It just has a different impeller. It's especially silent because of the low speed.
You can place both the solenoid and the skimmer on timers so that they shut off at about the same time.

Although I must agree with the practicality and effectiveness of foxfish's DIY design, the Skimmer is so much more cool and Star Trekkie...😛

Cheers,
 
I bought a jebao 4000 pump and it's been great nice and quiet and never put a foot wrong, I gave up injecting the co2 before the pump as it became very noisy and had very little flow. I imagine the whole impellar was cavitating. I'm guessing you might do a far better with a smaller pump, with a different impeller.
 
Costa said:
Very interesting thank you @ceg4048 @foxfish

Just so that IIget it right, are skimmer pumps as efficient as this reactor?

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/diy-reactor-pictures-assembly-and-testing.4626/

If so I will Goa ahead and buy a needle wheel pump because my diy skills aren't the best. It not, I will probably try my hand at making me a reactor or I might just buy one from nilocg.

Thanks so much!
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Reactors and needle wheel pumps are completely different in thier function.
Both do a job in a completely different way.
Both methods have potential to work as well as each other.
Obvious you don’t like the idea of an atomiser in front of the pump, I can only tell you what I have experienced so good luck with you choice.🙂
 
foxfish said:
Reactors and needle wheel pumps are completely different in thier function.
Both do a job in a completely different way.
Both methods have potential to work as well as each other.
Obvious you don’t like the idea of an atomiser in front of the pump, I can only tell you what I have experienced so good luck with you choice.🙂
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Yeah thanks ff, I will go buy a skimmer pump with a Volute, challenge is the only one I can find in my local market is this (looking at the smallest version as @ceg4048 recommended - 1200lph)

http://www.blau-aquaristic.com/reefmotion-dc.html

It doesn't come with a Volute by the looks of it, but I guess I can simply attach some 1/2" tube with a hole to insert the co2 line through?

Do I have to connect a tube at the out of the skimmer pump to drive water at the in of my normal water pump?

Thank you again
Costa

Edit
There's also this sold on amazon, but isn't 180lph too little?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01MXX1G89/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_awdb_t1_x_HL4-Bb21E0R0A
 
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Costa said:
Yeah thanks ff, I will go buy a skimmer pump with a Volute, challenge is the only one I can find in my local market is this (looking at the smallest version as @ceg4048 recommended - 1200lph)

http://www.blau-aquaristic.com/reefmotion-dc.html

It doesn't come with a Volute by the looks of it, but I guess I can simply attach some 1/2" tube with a hole to insert the co2 line through?
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Hi costa,
I looked at that DC pump and of course I love DC pumps for their control-ability but I did not see the prices. Surely you realize that you also have to get the controller?
It might be a bit over the top for our purpose. Of course, price aside, it's perfect because you would be able to dial the speed down and that would extend the pumps life.
It's strange to me that they sell a skimmer pump without a volute, but I don't know enough about marine tans to understand why. perhaps when installed in a skimmer assembly they assume that there is already a spud for the gas. I suppose you could modify it to inject the gas at the inlet. My skimmer pump has a volute so I've not faced this problem but it would not be difficult. Even the smallest pump, the 1200 LPH is way over the top. You would only need to run it at 30%-40%. Remember that these pumps are not being attached to any plumbing so they are pumping against almost zero head pressure. So this makes them very efficient.
Costa said:
Do I have to connect a tube at the out of the skimmer pump to drive water at the in of my normal water pump?
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No, again, you do not connect anything. You simply point the outlet of the skimmer towards the inlet of your main pump. That's all.
I think it's so simple that people actually get confused. They expect something complicated.
I've inserted a quick picture of my case here. This is the return section of the sump.
This is the only thing about a sump that is actually simple. Everything else is a pain in the blahblahblahblah.
Bear with me as I go on a rant here:
I blame foxfish and Edvert for my troubles because they kept going on and on about how sumps were soooo superior.
Nothing could be further from the truth. I never had to worry about water levels or the risk of flooding if the power went out when I used a closed loop system.
I won't ruin your thread with my troubles. Suffice to say that both aforementioned characters are off my Christmas List.:yuck:

Anyway, yes, it's very simple. In my case I'm using two pumps and the idea here is to point the skimmer outlet in between the two inlets.
This is an especially useful technique when using multiple return pumps. This is about 200 US gallons of water including the sump volume.
It doesn't really matter as the CO2 will saturate the entire volume of water and the pumps will scoop it up.
Depending on injection rateI can bring the ph down by 1 unit in less than 45 minutes so be careful.
I also cover the sump chambers with simple glass topsSkimmer Pump.jpg

Cheers,
 
Well if you used cegs method, you would in effect, be forming a reactor in the sump compartment.
Depending on how well the top of the compartment was sealed, this may or may not produce a pressure differential and a build up of gas below the top seal.
I suspect if you sealed the top with cling film, it would form an entertaining dome as the pressure builds?
Great, basic and simple idea though......
 
ceg4048 said:
Depending on injection rateI can bring the ph down by 1 unit in less than 45 minutes so be careful.
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Impressive and very similar to the speed of my pH drop :thumbup:

foxfish said:
Depending on how well the top of the compartment was sealed,
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If the seal on the sump is water proof and air tight its no longer a sump its a canister in my book, as a canister is a sump with a sealed lid
 
Zeus. said:
Impressive and very similar to the speed of my pH drop :thumbup:



If the seal on the sump is water proof and air tight its no longer a sump its a canister in my book, as a canister is a sump with a sealed lid
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Well I don't really worry too much about any of these definitions. In my case the sump compartments each are covered by a simple glass lid, which I just lift off to perform maintenance. No air tight sealing is required and the glass lids do a great job of reducing evaporation as well as reducing gas loss, so it all works out quite nicely. :wave:

Cheers,
 
Just read through this post as I am setting up a spraybar on the back wall of my juwel 180.

It will be run by a sicce 1,5 pump (1350l/h)
Hooked up to a reactor
https://www.us-aquaristikshop.com/c...nreaktor-ar-us50-16mm-ohne-blasenzaehler.html

This pump and reactor combo completely dissolved all co2 bubbles, very happy to get rid of the bubbles in the tank.

On top of that I got a eheim 2280 for filtration, not sure what to do with the water outlet on that...any one tried the rfg flow nozzles? Considering one of those at the filter end blowing across the aquarium/

https://reefbuilders.com/2017/10/04/add-variable-flow-to-your-tank-with-the-rfg-nozzle/
 
Hi all I hope tmyou are having a great Christmas day.
Coming back to the flow issue in my tank, and although overall skimming has improved with moving the spraybar to the right hand side of the tank, the bottom third of the tank remains problematic flow wise, which I believe is an inherent limitation of overflow sump rigs.

To tackle this what I am planning on doing is to use a second pump that I have hanging around (DCS-3000) and use the inlet to drive two pump water into the pump via two 16/22 pipes that will be reaching all the way down close to the substrate. I want to mimic the way external filters operate. I will post a schematic asap.

Thanks for reading
 
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Well after some more consideration I think this is a stupid idea after all.

Adding the schematic below

IMG_20181226_112935__01__01.jpg

Yellow: overflow
Red: Second pump to pump water from 2 inlets (green) in the display tank into the sump below
Blue lines: flexible tubing

Assuming that the flexible tube is going to be connected on the inlet of the pump (Jebao DSC-3000) is the flow from the display tank going to stop when that pump also stops?
 
No this is the reasons sumps use surface inlets, with enough redundancy space in the sump, so if the pump stop for whatever reason it will only empty the water from the tank to the bottom of the inlet close to the water surface and the sump shouldn't overflow?
With the bottom inlets like in your pic if the pump stops it will empty the tank and flood your room.
 
Costa said:
the bottom third of the tank remains problematic flow wise, which I believe is an inherent limitation of overflow sump rigs.
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The fact that you are using a sump shouldn't have any limitations on how you can deliver flow to the whole tank. Many people struggle with flow using external filters and it's all about how you deliver the outlet of your sump or filter.
Some people use a simple lily pipe, some use a spraybar and many people try everything and still need some extra powerheads to reach the whole tank.
It could be to do with your layout and obstacles which stops flow reaching everywhere.
I would say it's even easier using a sump as if you are down on power then you can quite cheaply just add a bigger or an extra filter assuming your overflow can keep up.

I'm unsure how your overflow box is configured or attached to your tank but if you really think this is the source of your problem then why not just cut it out, plug it up and use an external filter? - I don't think that's the solution though!

What exactly are you trying to resolve now; Just the flow?
 
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