hitmanx
Member
Yes the duckweed index is indeed a great idea... but because the frog bit is generally in very good health can I only assume it's a co2 issue and if it is I have no way of fixing it...
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Hi all,
You definitely aren't suffering from any major deficiencies. If it was my tank and I wanted a bit more growth I'd look at adding a bit more KNO3 and some magnesium and see what happens.
Things take a bit longer without CO2, but if you look back through your images to Jan. 2017 your plants have done really well.
cheers Darrel
I'd just carry on the way you are. Because your submerged plants look in generally good health, I think they will eventually start to fill in.
You definitely aren't suffering from any major deficiencies. If it was my tank and I wanted a bit more growth I'd look at adding a bit more KNO3 and some magnesium and see what happens.
Things take a bit longer without CO2, but if you look back through your images to Jan. 2017 your plants have done really well.
cheers Darrel
hitmanx
Member
Thanks Darrel...
I'm over analyzing I'm sure... the dwarf has me stumped though...
I'm over analyzing I'm sure... the dwarf has me stumped though...
sciencefiction
Member
- Joined
- 26 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 3,406
Fantastic tank @hitmanx
In relation to the dwarf sag, do you have another tank to try some in? I used to keep it in a low tech juwel tank. It just hung around there for over a year without growing or dying. The light I used was the original one that came in the tank until after the third time it broke I bought an LED. Then the dwarf sag took off. Your emersed section plus the taller plants might be shadowing it a bit, or at least its a possibility. It happened to me in a tank with both emersed and submerged growth. In my observation, generally a plant that doesn't grow or spread at all, isn't getting sufficient light. Low CO2, low nutrients, etc..never have that extreme effect because any small amount of them the plant gets, it can utilize eventually. Where with light, there is such a thing as light compensation point, below which the plant just won't grow.
As for the floaters, I was never able to grow them in a tank that also has emersed growth. They just dwindled and died eventually, although I do not tend to dose much extra nutrients, if any these days. The emersed plants are powerful nutrient sponges and its hard for any other plants to compete with them, even other floaters, although I am sure it is possible with some extra nutrient doses.
Great tank. Looking forward to further progress.
In relation to the dwarf sag, do you have another tank to try some in? I used to keep it in a low tech juwel tank. It just hung around there for over a year without growing or dying. The light I used was the original one that came in the tank until after the third time it broke I bought an LED. Then the dwarf sag took off. Your emersed section plus the taller plants might be shadowing it a bit, or at least its a possibility. It happened to me in a tank with both emersed and submerged growth. In my observation, generally a plant that doesn't grow or spread at all, isn't getting sufficient light. Low CO2, low nutrients, etc..never have that extreme effect because any small amount of them the plant gets, it can utilize eventually. Where with light, there is such a thing as light compensation point, below which the plant just won't grow.
As for the floaters, I was never able to grow them in a tank that also has emersed growth. They just dwindled and died eventually, although I do not tend to dose much extra nutrients, if any these days. The emersed plants are powerful nutrient sponges and its hard for any other plants to compete with them, even other floaters, although I am sure it is possible with some extra nutrient doses.
Great tank. Looking forward to further progress.
hitmanx
Member
Thanks everyone for the ideas...
You have me thinking about light... it's the great unknown here... I am using par38 LEDs and I have no frame of reference for PAR values as they're not very popular... I wish I had a meter to see what im actually dealing with...
Assuming the co2 and flow/distribution is consistent and my fertilizers are adequate or close to it, the limiting factor could be light... intensity or shading or photoperiod... if I had a meter I could rule out intensity... I don't think I have a shading issue besides the maidenhair fern for one area as I designed the riparium section to be way behind the submersed growth... so maybe it's photoperiod...
I started the tank as a drystart method in Nov or Dec of 2016 at 100% brightness for 12hrs and once filled in Jan 2017 I think I lowered the intensity to 75% for 6hrs and ramped that up to 7hrs after a month... I did not experience much in the way of algae until the summer and that was black fuzz on the carpet plants that stopped growing and synedra after that and was probably associated with high organics... after battling that for a longtime, I lowered the intensity to 65% in Feb 2018 where's it stayed until the summer where I had a greenwater or bacterial bloom at which point I lowered the intensity to 55% for 6hrs with a 30min noon at 75%... some synedra algae continued, but since cleaning the the poret filter and and sucking out all the mulm in the sump, all that has disappeared... there's only a tiny bit of bba here and there but nothing to worry about... Last month I increased the lights to 60% because I didn't like the spectrum at 55%... it seemed too blue and I'm not sure why...
And that's where we sit now...
What does all this mean? I have no idea what I'm doing with the lights... turn up the intensity? I'm afraid of an algae farm that will have to battle... longer photoperiod?
Obviously the emersed plants grow... but really the only stems that do well are hygrophila polysperma and now heterantha zosterfolia... the hygrophila angustifolia isn't doing well and as mentioned the dwarf sag is struggling and all other carpet plants died out except cryptocoryne parva and nevilii... Ludwigia repens disintegrated and the Lysimachia nummularia 'Aurea' isn't far behind... Cryptocoryne wendtii and lutea grow well on the sides and of course anubias do well...
I know I'm nitpicking at this point and overall I love the overall look of this tank, but I tend to overanalyze in the cold depths of winter.. . Pretty soon it will be spring outside and I will neglect the tank yet again...
You have me thinking about light... it's the great unknown here... I am using par38 LEDs and I have no frame of reference for PAR values as they're not very popular... I wish I had a meter to see what im actually dealing with...
Assuming the co2 and flow/distribution is consistent and my fertilizers are adequate or close to it, the limiting factor could be light... intensity or shading or photoperiod... if I had a meter I could rule out intensity... I don't think I have a shading issue besides the maidenhair fern for one area as I designed the riparium section to be way behind the submersed growth... so maybe it's photoperiod...
I started the tank as a drystart method in Nov or Dec of 2016 at 100% brightness for 12hrs and once filled in Jan 2017 I think I lowered the intensity to 75% for 6hrs and ramped that up to 7hrs after a month... I did not experience much in the way of algae until the summer and that was black fuzz on the carpet plants that stopped growing and synedra after that and was probably associated with high organics... after battling that for a longtime, I lowered the intensity to 65% in Feb 2018 where's it stayed until the summer where I had a greenwater or bacterial bloom at which point I lowered the intensity to 55% for 6hrs with a 30min noon at 75%... some synedra algae continued, but since cleaning the the poret filter and and sucking out all the mulm in the sump, all that has disappeared... there's only a tiny bit of bba here and there but nothing to worry about... Last month I increased the lights to 60% because I didn't like the spectrum at 55%... it seemed too blue and I'm not sure why...
And that's where we sit now...
What does all this mean? I have no idea what I'm doing with the lights... turn up the intensity? I'm afraid of an algae farm that will have to battle... longer photoperiod?
Obviously the emersed plants grow... but really the only stems that do well are hygrophila polysperma and now heterantha zosterfolia... the hygrophila angustifolia isn't doing well and as mentioned the dwarf sag is struggling and all other carpet plants died out except cryptocoryne parva and nevilii... Ludwigia repens disintegrated and the Lysimachia nummularia 'Aurea' isn't far behind... Cryptocoryne wendtii and lutea grow well on the sides and of course anubias do well...
I know I'm nitpicking at this point and overall I love the overall look of this tank, but I tend to overanalyze in the cold depths of winter.. . Pretty soon it will be spring outside and I will neglect the tank yet again...
Last edited:
sciencefiction
Member
- Joined
- 26 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 3,406
If you are not experiencing algae issues with anubias, your light is on the low side. Anubias for me do best in very little light, less than other plants can cope with to grow.
The tank is lovely as it is. No need to improve anything 😛
zozo
Member
I have some S. sabulata growing in a non fertilized slow tech, planted in akadama with no other light than daylight it gets from an east faced window next to it.. It's in there for about a year now, can't say it's strugling it also isn't taking off, but definitively propagating.
The tank stays relatively algae free, so i assume even it gets indirect daylight as sole light source it's not high light.. But i wouldn't know what light category to give it.. It's a pretty hardy plant that doesn't need much of anything to keep going. 🙂
The tank stays relatively algae free, so i assume even it gets indirect daylight as sole light source it's not high light.. But i wouldn't know what light category to give it.. It's a pretty hardy plant that doesn't need much of anything to keep going. 🙂
hitmanx
Member
4 months of neglect later...
She's overgrown again...
Almost no fertz for the last couple months and only 1 water change... the frogbit has suffered but all the rest is good... even the dwarf sag seems to have grown better under the H. Polysperma forest...
She's overgrown again...
Almost no fertz for the last couple months and only 1 water change... the frogbit has suffered but all the rest is good... even the dwarf sag seems to have grown better under the H. Polysperma forest...
hitmanx
Member
Trimmed, replanted and cleaned up a little...
The Accidental Aquascaper
Member
More like 4 months of AMAZINGNESS!!!
hitmanx
Member
I have tried them... and osocote tabs as well... honestly I didn't see much difference...
The dwarf sag did grow since February, just slowly...
Feb:
Sep:
hitmanx
Member
Thanks...
As it turns out I still have lots of fish in there... I couldn't see then before
hitmanx
Member
Actually I just checked my records.. . I added about 20 osocote di y root tabs in February so maybe they do work 😉
I'll try again more regularly and see what happens...
Hi all,
I've now got used to not seeing the fish, it used to worry me, and every now and then I'd search for them, often unsuccessfully, but a few days later they would re-appear. Now I just tend to leave them to it.
cheers Darrel
Small fish are usually happier in <"densely planted tanks">, it is being out in the open that is is much more stressful for them.
I've now got used to not seeing the fish, it used to worry me, and every now and then I'd search for them, often unsuccessfully, but a few days later they would re-appear. Now I just tend to leave them to it.
cheers Darrel
hitmanx
Member
I think the fish feel comfortable even in the open space because they have so much hiding spaces behind the driftwood that takes up the other half of the scape...
I haven't seen any of the celestichthys margaritatus or celestichthys erythromicron in a long time, but here they are swimming around out front with the Microdevario kubotai:
Quick video of the fishes
I haven't seen any of the celestichthys margaritatus or celestichthys erythromicron in a long time, but here they are swimming around out front with the Microdevario kubotai:
Quick video of the fishes
